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TOPIC: Club Finances and Possible Future

Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158810

  • r_p_mcmurphy
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Had a debate elsewhere recently about the financial position of our club and what the future might look like. Some of you maybe interested in what I found -

Starting with the facts. The below relates to the 15/16 season when we were promoted from League 1 (Last set of published figures).

Turnover - £15.7m (This turnover includes £12m in Parachute Payments :( )

Salary Costs - £11.9m

Transfers - £2.0m profit made

Overall loss made - -£2.3m


Below is an assumption of what the financial figures will be for this season (17/18) by using the figures from the last time we were in this League (Less the parachute payments)

Turnover - £3.7m

Salary costs - £10m (Assumed a small reduction but could be higher, Powell, Morsy, Grigg will be on decent wages)

Transfers - I'm going to ignore any profit made from players sales because the club cannot rely on having a 6/7m Yanic Wildschute to sell every season.

Overal loss of - £6-7mill (Surprisingly a similar figure we received for yanic)


To Summarise

- Current wage budget maintained due to Yanic money. Squad would look a lot different from the one you see today if he wasn't sold in January

- Failure to get promoted back to the Championship will result in the squad being broken up and wage bill reduced to around the 4million mark (a 60% reduction). Alternatively, the club rack up debts of about 6/7mill a year.

- Being in the championship worth about £8mill extra a year to our club (Heard Jonathan Jackson say this once). Essential that we get promoted to have a chance of keeping the likes of Morsy, Grigg, Powell, etc.

- Parachute Payments may have stopped, but we are still benefitting from the effects of the investments made with the premier league money. Yanic being one of those investments. This wont last.


I've obviously made a lot of assumptions above. Feel free to correct me.
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8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158811

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Football finances change from week to week I imagine. Trying to work out yearly losses/gains is futile really simply because circumstances alter at a club in a heartbeat. We are probably going to post a huge loss on gate receipts but come January the likes of Burn, Morsey Grigg could go bringing in millions hopefully not mind. I'm sure the finances are being managed by the club to the best of its ability.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158812

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I agree to an extent. I'm not saying my figures are spot on, but I'm sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

You can't have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
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Filmoss
8th December 2010

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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158814

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I thought it was £9 million in parachute payments that season. Don't forget that grant holt was also paid off in that season. I doubt anyone in the current squad is on even 25% of what he was getting paid!
Last Edit: 2 weeks 4 days ago by muttywhitedog.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158815

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muttywhitedog wrote:
I thought it was £9 million in parachute payments that season. Don't forget that grant holt was also paid off in that season. I doubt anyone in the current squad is on even 25% of what he was getting paid!

12mil according to Jackson in this statement.

www.wiganathletic.com/news/2016/december...-financial-accounts/
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8th December 2010

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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158816

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Thanks for this, it is a really interesting and stimulating post. One key factor in this is of course how long for and how much will the ownership support loses, and whether they will do it in such a way that the club isnt left with ever increasing debts, that will be important for the future. There will come a time when an ownership change may be required and that will be a key moment for the club... If it doesn't mean the end of the club then we will still have football to watch, maybe like the old days (non league, div 3 n 4 , maybe more like the current days. I have enjoyed them all just some a bit more than others! The financial part of the game isnt something I personally look at particularly but it kind of does make u think a little about the what ifs.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 4 days ago #158817

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I don't think you are too far off with your assumptions, but our turnover is probably a bit more and our running costs are probably a bit less than the £10m you assume.

I have found a few figures myself regarding incomings and have assumed a few more which would back up my belief that the deficit each season, albeit large, is probably not quite as much as the £6-7M you stated.

Basic award across the EFL:
Championship - £2.084m.
League 1 - £677,000.
League 2 - £472,000.

Premier League Solidarity payment across the EFL:
Championship - £4.3m
League 1 - £645,000.
League 2 - £430,000.

£1.425m in season ticket sales (assuming 6500 season ticket holders averaging £250 each)

£1.265m in pay on day gate receipts (£20 in admission on average and assuming 2500 paying fans x 23 matches)

That makes the income £4.012m before any Cup matches, sponsopship money and any other income the club might generate.

I know it doesn't bridge the gap, but if the out goings are also less then player sales wouldn't have to be as drastic.

Looking at the Championship figures above, with increased attendances and controlled wages I think we could be self sustained or even profitable.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 3 days ago #158819

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r_p_mcmurphy wrote:
I agree to an extent. I'm not saying my figures are spot on, but I'm sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

You can't have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.

We're starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 3 days ago #158820

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StandishWalker wrote:
r_p_mcmurphy wrote:
I agree to an extent. I'm not saying my figures are spot on, but I'm sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

You can't have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.

We're starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.

We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?

We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.
"If I want to ridicule how pathetic our support is then I will"

Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 2 days ago #158823

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Wage bill won't be ten million. Top earner at club is Nick Powell on 8K per week. Rest nowhere near that.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 2 days ago #158824

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bigroy wrote:
Wage bill won't be ten million. Top earner at club is Nick Powell on 8K per week. Rest nowhere near that.

Is this fact? Or are you just assuming? (I think I already know the answer)

The last time we were in League One, the wage bill stood at 11.9million. That is a published fact. What makes you think that our current wage bill is significantly lower than £10million? We have a lot of the same players we did the last time we played in this League (Grigg, Jacobs, Power, Morgan, Perkins, James, etc) plus some expensive additions (Powell, Morsy, McDonald)

How do you know Nick Powell is the highest earner and how do you know he is on 8k a week?
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Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 2 days ago #158825

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bigroy wrote:
Wage bill won't be ten million. Top earner at club is Nick Powell on 8K per week. Rest nowhere near that.

Assuming that info is correct, then I'd say that £10mill won't be far off. That makes Powell on £416k a year - the club then has to pay tax & NI on top of that at around 25% making his cost to the club £520k. That means it only takes 19 players at that level to reach £10mill.

Now I know you say that he's the top earner but even if the rest of the 1st team squad are on between £3k-£8k a week that £10mill disappears pretty quick.
Plus the development squad, plus the scouts, plus the non-playing staff
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 2 days ago #158826

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If the below article is to be believed, Nick Powell was offered £16,000 p/w to sign for Wolves before he joined us.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/artic...n-young-forward.html

Bigroy? We need your input. Where did you get the 8k figure from?
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 2 days ago #158827

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Whichever way you look at it we still have a big deficit if we stay in League One.
If we can get promoted the extra money we generate would balance the books as long as we didn't go stupid on wages and big name players.

Once in the Champioship we know from experience that a happy bunch of decent well managed players, playing as a team can get you into the PL. There were no mega stars in Paul Jewells team, just hard working players who played for each other.

With the money available in the PL these days, one well managed season can set a club like ours up for donkeys years. Burnley and Bournemouth will have bank balances bulging and should never hit financial hardship again.

It will take some hard work but I am confident we will grace the top flight again if the people involved with the running of the club want it enough.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 1 day ago #158831

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The Dingles also managed to develop a quality academy/ training centre and own Turf Moor too. The season after they were promoted with Leicester they basically sacrificed for money and bounced straight back on a budget and after selling players. Second year in there this time and looking safe for a third.
It's just all about money and just finishing fourth bottom. Not very interesting but very lucrative. We had eight years and have no assets whatsoever which could be worrying depending on which way you look at it.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 1 day ago #158841

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r_p_mcmurphy wrote:
StandishWalker wrote:
r_p_mcmurphy wrote:
I agree to an extent. I'm not saying my figures are spot on, but I'm sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

You can't have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.

We're starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.

We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?

We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.
There are a few who are out on loan at present who could potentially be first teamers or sold for a profit next season.

No seven million pound players yet, but it's definitely a step in the right direction from when Bruce pretty much closed down the academy and took all emphasis away from youth development in order to channel the funds into sustaining a high first team wage bill.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 1 day ago #158843

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Not disclosing that but I can 100% tell you it's true. Wildschut was only one last year to be earning same and Sharpe has brought wages to much more sensible levels. Be surprised now if wages are over 5 million. Don't believe everything you read in papers!
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 15 hours ago #158849

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bigroy wrote:
Don't believe everything you read in papers!

Or on a fans messageboard. I don't believe that you have personal salary information of our players.

Why was our wage bill well over 10million the last time we were in league one and not this time? How do you account for This 60% fall in wages you are now claiming to below 5million?

I'm getting a strong wiff around here.
"If I want to ridicule how pathetic our support is then I will"

Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 2 weeks 15 hours ago #158850

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StandishWalker wrote:
r_p_mcmurphy wrote:
StandishWalker wrote:
r_p_mcmurphy wrote:
I agree to an extent. I'm not saying my figures are spot on, but I'm sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

You can't have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.

We're starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.

We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?

We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.
There are a few who are out on loan at present who could potentially be first teamers or sold for a profit next season.

No seven million pound players yet, but it's definitely a step in the right direction from when Bruce pretty much closed down the academy and took all emphasis away from youth development in order to channel the funds into sustaining a high first team wage bill.

Bruce channelled funds away from youth development? That's a big claim.

How much do you think the club was spending on youth development at the time?

How much of the £40million+ a year wage bill was thanks to channelling money away from youth development?
"If I want to ridicule how pathetic our support is then I will"

Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 6 days 3 hours ago #159039

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Just bumping this back to the top of the board because it may become a hot topic tomorrow.
"If I want to ridicule how pathetic our support is then I will"

Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 6 days 3 hours ago #159040

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According to Alan Nixon (twitter) something in paper tomorrow re Latics, major news apparently. Seems it may be something to do with investment.

Just on that topic, noticed a reminder yesterday of how hard things can be in this game when Southend have to come up on the train on the day of a game (not unusual for teams to use railways, but not on day of a game) and then resort to walking back to station after match
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Club Finances and Possible Future 6 days 2 hours ago #159041

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Being taken over by Chinese businessmen apparently. Oh the irony!
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Club Finances and Possible Future 6 days 2 hours ago #159042

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New Far East ownership. Due diligence and Deal agreed according to Nixon.

I personally hope this isn't true. It will spell a period of uncertainty just when we are settled on and off the pitch.
"If I want to ridicule how pathetic our support is then I will"

Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 6 days 2 hours ago #159043

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bigroy wrote:
Being taken over by Chinese businessmen apparently. Oh the irony!

You never answered my questions above Bigroy. I assume you avoided the questions because you had no answer to them?
"If I want to ridicule how pathetic our support is then I will"

Filmoss
8th December 2010

RIP Wigan Athletic. We had some good times.
Last Edit: 6 days 2 hours ago by r_p_mcmurphy.
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Club Finances and Possible Future 6 days 2 hours ago #159044

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www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4690510/...league-one-takeover/

Just heard about this myself... time to worry, or a good thing?
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