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TOPIC: The Current Situation

The Current Situation 6 days 9 hours ago #178429

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I have to make this post and say this.

The current situation we find ourselves in, with the majority of people wanting Cook out, is just an honest reflection of how the club stands and is fairing at the moment. Its a clichè, but football IS a results driven business, and our results have just not been good enough at all.

Its never great when you get to this, wanting a managerial change, crowds declining, and the team seemingly not even capable of 'buying' a win. Its a situation nobody enjoys or wants, ever. Because it means your club is failing.

The singling out of Naismith yesterday, has been condemned. And whilst I am inclined to agree with it never being right to single out ab individual, for him to be put on the spot by his manager like that, shows the naivety of Cook. Being honest, I am not convinced Naismith is good enough for the Championship. But that can also be applied to other Wigan Athletic players. Apart from Marshall, Mulgrew, Pilkington, and Garner, there wasnt much actual Championship experience, or quality in yesterdays side. I mean solid experience. And there in lies the problem. Paul Cook has assembled a side that would probably do well in League One. But we are a step above that, or are aspiring to be, at least. We have a manager and backroom team who are lower tier. Thats not an insult, thats just what they are. David Sharpe should never have extended Cook's contract the way he did, he was naive in the extreme. Its this action that has seen us tethered to the current situation we are in.

So what now? Well, without question, Darren Royle has to make the call. Its not even debatable now, and if they do nothing, then perhaps they all need to go as well. The club is toxic at the moment. It needs a complete wipe of the board and to start again from scratch. Not a 'jobs for the boys' appointment, someone fresh, with no previous club links. Someone to come in and be allowed to do things their way.
But not a lower league appointment. I dont want Graeme Jones, Nathan Jones, Mike Flynn, etc. We would be in the same boat again. The owners and chairman have the opportunity to go all out here and bring onboard their own man, their own appointment to come in and change things. Its an opportunity for them to make a real statement of intent, and show that they mean business at this club. Its going to be intriguing as to what happens, but the point is they can't sit back any longer and do nothing. They just can't. The sooner they act and get on with appointing a new man, the better. If next week goes by and its all silent and nothing is done, then I will be greatly worried about the club and where exactly we are heading.
And there you go!
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The Current Situation 6 days 8 hours ago #178431

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Spot on!

Cooks comments are almost asking to be sacked he sounds beaten but won't resign obviously and forfeit the pay off

I looked at the Royals and Jackson at full time they were motionless. But far away to see but Joe said a quick word in Darren's here then Jackson and Darren appeared to look at there phones.

Anyone closer. They must have been getting some stick?
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The Current Situation 6 days 8 hours ago #178432

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I agree with most you say there, Dave.

I have mulled over my response, giving myself time to avoid a kneejerk reaction.

Let's deal first with the Naismith thing. From my perspective and position people were not booing Naismith himself. They were booing Cook's decision to make a substitution at that point and bringing on Naismith. Subtle difference. People don't feel at teh moment that Naismith is the instant change-all solution. That's not the same as saying we would boo him. But people can and did boo Cook's choice, not Naismith himself. To say otherwise deflects the issue from people being unhappy with Cook, to scapegoating a player.

Horc I think has asked a question that I have exactly been asking. Why on 60 minutes do we HAVE to make changes? Yesterday we were in the lead, reasonably comfortably albeit scrappily so, so it was for Reading to initiate the first change to alter the dynamics of the game. When they play those cards then we should consider whether we needed to respond. But the timings of our substitutions is poor, the thinking behind them is unclear, the effect is destructive rather than constructive. I'm afraid the subs do seem to be made on the basis of the guys with the iPads monitoring output levels rather than actually looking at the players out on the pitch. After an hour players will flag a little, but if they are good enough, and encouraged they may produce that extra burst for 30 seconds or so that can lead to a goal.

We had Keiffer Moore and Gelhardt on the bench yesterday. I have regularly said that I see Moore as Heskey-esque - hit the ball to him, and let him nod it down to a predator, someone exactly like Gelhardt. But it was difficult, if not impossible, to see what our plan was yesterday overall, and certainly what changes the substitutions were meant to achieve.

As for Cook's future? I think his position is now untenable.

For those expecting a sacking last night is to ignore a fairly simple point. It would need approval from Hong Kong. When the match finished last night at 5pm, in HK it was 1 am. A phone call on such a major issue for us, but one of an operational decision that would have a Stock Market impact needs time. I am sure though that phone calls are being made. Not least lining up potential replacements. As a listed company IEC cannot sack a key operational manager without being able to announce a replacement that would give shareholders confidence. We are in a different ball-game now.

Similarly we also have to consider the effect of all the political unrest in HK. Things we never had to bother about in teh past, but all of which feed into the pot.
Cook is a "dead man walking" I'm afraid.
When? We will see,
Till then, keep the faith.

Two asides:
I had a great footballing trip this week - I went on Tuesday to watch Real Madrid play PSG, and on Wednesday Barcelona v Borussia. Four goals in each game. So it was odds-on there were going to be four goals. Sadly we were never going to win 4-0.
However I was able to compare and contrast Leo Messi in front of 90,000, with Michael Jacobs in front of 9,000. Hard call ;)

And secondly - to be fair what chance did we have against Puscas and Pele?
Last Edit: 6 days 8 hours ago by garswood_latic.
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The Current Situation 6 days 7 hours ago #178433

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garswood_latic wrote:
I agree with most you say there, Dave.

I have mulled over my response, giving myself time to avoid a kneejerk reaction.

Let's deal first with the Naismith thing. From my perspective and position people were not booing Naismith himself. They were booing Cook's decision to make a substitution at that point and bringing on Naismith. Subtle difference. People don't feel at teh moment that Naismith is the instant change-all solution. That's not the same as saying we would boo him. But people can and did boo Cook's choice, not Naismith himself. To say otherwise deflects the issue from people being unhappy with Cook, to scapegoating a player.

Horc I think has asked a question that I have exactly been asking. Why on 60 minutes do we HAVE to make changes? Yesterday we were in the lead, reasonably comfortably albeit scrappily so, so it was for Reading to initiate the first change to alter the dynamics of the game. When they play those cards then we should consider whether we needed to respond. But the timings of our substitutions is poor, the thinking behind them is unclear, the effect is destructive rather than constructive. I'm afraid the subs do seem to be made on the basis of the guys with the iPads monitoring output levels rather than actually looking at the players out on the pitch. After an hour players will flag a little, but if they are good enough, and encouraged they may produce that extra burst for 30 seconds or so that can lead to a goal.

We had Keiffer Moore and Gelhardt on the bench yesterday. I have regularly said that I see Moore as Heskey-esque - hit the ball to him, and let him nod it down to a predator, someone exactly like Gelhardt. But it was difficult, if not impossible, to see what our plan was yesterday overall, and certainly what changes the substitutions were meant to achieve.

As for Cook's future? I think his position is now untenable.

For those expecting a sacking last night is to ignore a fairly simple point. It would need approval from Hong Kong. When the match finished last night at 5pm, in HK it was 1 am. A phone call on such a major issue for us, but one of an operational decision that would have a Stock Market impact needs time. I am sure though that phone calls are being made. Not least lining up potential replacements. As a listed company IEC cannot sack a key operational manager without being able to announce a replacement that would give shareholders confidence. We are in a different ball-game now.

Similarly we also have to consider the effect of all the political unrest in HK. Things we never had to bother about in teh past, but all of which feed into the pot.
Cook is a "dead man walking" I'm afraid.
When? We will see,
Till then, keep the faith.

Two asides:
I had a great footballing trip this week - I went on Tuesday to watch Real Madrid play PSG, and on Wednesday Barcelona v Borussia. Four goals in each game. So it was odds-on there were going to be four goals. Sadly we were never going to win 4-0.
However I was able to compare and contrast Leo Messi in front of 90,000, with Michael Jacobs in front of 9,000. Hard call ;)

And secondly - to be fair what chance did we have against Puscas and Pele?



I see Keifer in exactly the same way as you do gl a modern day Emile Heskey.

Always wanted to visit the Bernabeu I've been to the Camp Nou.
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The Current Situation 6 days 7 hours ago #178434

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Thanks George.

Agree with all you say there.

And thats the thing. I think most of us are in agreement about things, about Cooks position being untenable now. It will be beyond a joke if he is still in charge next Saturday.

I am not a great fan if this kind of ownership, I must be honest. Darren Royle should have the ability to hire and fire, being at the forefront of operations. Maybe he does have that ability? We shall see. It'll be scandalous though if nothing is done by 5pm tomorrow.
And there you go!
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The Current Situation 6 days 6 hours ago #178435

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I thought I may have had a softer mindset having slept on it but not for me, you have to make a change, he seems incapable of changing his ways.
Been to both Barcelona and Real, big stadiums but they are crumbling relics, was at the Barca Lyn champs league earlier in the year 96 euros for the worst seat in a champs league game v 13 quid for a good seat at a championship game watching us lose, now which one was the better value!
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The Current Situation 6 days 5 hours ago #178436

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It seems like Groundhog Day now we’re all saying the same things over and over again (some for a long time) and Cook is saying the same sad rubbish every week.

When he says “staying up will be a massive achievement with this squad”, how are the players and fans going to take that? What’s sad for me is Cook was very much loved, but by hanging on for his compensation payment and making ill judged comments on the back of another defeat, he’s soon going to be despised.
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The Current Situation 6 days 5 hours ago #178437

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This has to be one of the very best discussions I have read on CockneyLatics.

I do appreciate that the Hong Kong stock exchange have to be informed of any change. The question why have they not before is because of the Chip Shop Managers legacy of the ridiculous extended contract for Cook. Sharp has created this awful position and an apology is required, or the offer to fund the payoff he agreed to! Of course that will not happen.

As a boy I lived in Middlesbrough and stood in the boys enclosure at Ayresome Park. Watching Brian Clough bang in the goals, before offside rule came in. That is another story. BUT we never saw the teams train before a match. Years later in London I watched Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham and whilst they had a run out. Nothing like the 40 mins before the game our players are put through. In my opinion our team is sent out tired. I hate to think what their daily training regime consists of.

Wigan have the players. The club needs direction from the board, a change of the first team manager and his trainers (even his tea carrier). As soon as possible.
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The Current Situation 6 days 4 hours ago #178439

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soprano wrote:
This has to be one of the very best discussions I have read on CockneyLatics.

...before offside rule came in.

How old are you?
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The Current Situation 5 days 22 hours ago #178446

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The current situation is,
We've an inept manager,
Also,
5-6 players who he regular plays who are not good enough. At first I thought it was solely the fault of the manager but after watching half a dozen players in the past month or so I'm at the conclusion that these players are clearly not up to the task in hand.

We have a manager who will need paying off if we sack him.
If we stick with the above combination it will send us for sure theres no 2 ways about it.
I said long ago once the home form collapses that's it were fcuked and slowly but truly its starting to happen.
In one way I feel sorry for Cook it's not working out as he comes across as a honest genuine guy with a passion for the club but his managerial skills at this level are severely lacking.
And why tf bring Gelhardt on with 5 to go 1-3 down when hes already said Gelhardt's not ready ?.
He said in the papers he'd use in him in games were in front I suppose to build his confidence so why bring him on and not Moore ?.
Cooks lost with no regular starting line up and constantly chop and changes when it's not nessarsery. Are the fookin looking at the body tracking monitors ?, I dont know.

The majority of our budget was spent on Moore and Lowe both were subs and to top it off, Cooks now dangling the bait for the club to sack him so he can secure a nice little pay off.

I reckon we should try and get Neil Warnock in till the summer and get his much needed man management skills into the squad. Build their confidence and in Jan get one or 2 decent experienced loanee's in and try and repair this shambles Cooks created.
I've a feeling the people above are now lining up his replacement so we can sack then bring him in in a smooth transition.
Last Edit: 5 days 22 hours ago by cup winners.
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The Current Situation 5 days 22 hours ago #178450

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cup winners wrote:
The current situation is,
We've an inept manager,
Also,
5-6 players who he regular plays who are not good enough. At first I thought it was solely the fault of the manager but after watching half a dozen players in the past month or so I'm at the conclusion that these players are clearly not up to the task in hand.

We have a manager who will need paying off if we sack him.
If we stick with the above combination it will send us for sure theres no 2 ways about it.
I said long ago once the home form collapses that's it were fcuked and slowly but truly its starting to happen.
In one way I feel sorry for Cook it's not working out as he comes across as a honest genuine guy with a passion for the club but his managerial skills at this level are severely lacking.
And why tf bring Gelhardt on with 5 to go 1-3 down when hes already said Gelhardt's not ready ?.
He said in the papers he'd use in him in games were in front I suppose to build his confidence so why bring him on and not Moore ?.
Cooks lost with no regular starting line up and constantly chop and changes when it's not nessarsery. Are the fookin looking at the body tracking monitors ?, I dont know.

The majority of our budget was spent on Moore and Lowe both were subs and to top it off, Cooks now dangling the bait for the club to sack him so he can secure a nice little pay off.

I reckon we should try and get Neil Warnock in till the summer and get his much needed man management skills into the squad. Build their confidence and in Jan get one or 2 decent experienced loanee's in and try and repair this shambles Cooks created.
I've a feeling the people above are now lining up his replacement so we can sack then bring him in a smooth transition.

Agree with all that.

The only really 'seasoned' Championship experience we had yesterday was from Marshall, Mulgrew, Pilkington, and Garner. The others just arent good enough at this level. Both fullbacks are very inexperienced, Dunkley isnt up to this level, not yet anyway.

We have a League One squad, battling in the Championship. Add to this the naivety and failings of Cook and his staff, and perhaps its no wonder we are struggling.

But yes, to get Neil Warnock here with his no nonsense man management, and maybe get Stuart McCall in as his number two. Both great football men. Failing this, Id move heaven and earth to get Tony Pulis in. Again, a no nonsense guy who had enough about him to dig us out of the crap we are in.

We also need some cute and crafty recruitment in January, some experienced heads, the likes of which both could probably bring in.

I expect an announcement by about 11.30 am tomorrow morning. If not, its a disgrace.
And there you go!
Last Edit: 5 days 22 hours ago by Vat69.
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The Current Situation 5 days 21 hours ago #178451

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I said last week that I can see why he would be sacked but I think they will give him the Luton game at least. From reading different things it seems that his lengthy contract is the sticking point which again I said last week. Gamble that he can keep us up or pay the money to get rid and gamble again. If it was a guarantee that a new man would save us then I do think he'd be gone.
WAFC - LEAGUE ONE CHAMPIONS 2018 - UP THE TICS!
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The Current Situation 5 days 20 hours ago #178458

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The Egg wrote:
I said last week that I can see why he would be sacked but I think they will give him the Luton game at least. From reading different things it seems that his lengthy contract is the sticking point which again I said last week. Gamble that he can keep us up or pay the money to get rid and gamble again. If it was a guarantee that a new man would save us then I do think he'd be gone.



Egg, your a top poster on here and a valued member of CL. And even though you were obviously dropped on your head as a baby which made you also a fan of the moronic non event that is nut hugging I still find your support for this brilliant club to be unreal. You keep making the same point however about Cooks contract
Well if we are relegated it will cost the club a damn sight more than what our poor manager earns. This is why he must go and now You also keep saying it's a gamble well it ain't marrer coz as it stands we are in the bottom three and facing relegation and it looks like Cook hasn't the foggiest idea of how to turn it around. So what have we got to lose by changing the manager yes we may still go down but if we don't it's looking a dead cert we will.
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The Current Situation 5 days 20 hours ago #178459

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Because if we sack him and still go down then the financial losses you mention would be even greater. The costs to sack cook and presumably the backroom team, possible costs to bring in a new man, a probable pay rise to what cook and his team are on. That's why I said if it was a guarantee we would stay up with a new man then I think he'd be gone already.

Possible that once the "takeover" happens and we are no longer on the stock exchange that they will sack him because they won't have to explain the financial implications to the shareholders.
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The Current Situation 5 days 19 hours ago #178464

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Surely Cook must have breached some kind of contract with comments like “I can’t help the team anymore”
“All I can do is prey” and “survival would be a massive achievement with this squad”
If he loves the club he knows what he should do.
Last Edit: 5 days 18 hours ago by Edwards.
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The Current Situation 5 days 19 hours ago #178465

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Relegation will cost us more than paying off his contract
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The Current Situation 5 days 19 hours ago #178468

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lowey wrote:
Relegation will cost us more than paying off his contract

Exactly.

I always think that if you need to make a change, which we obviously do, you have to make it before Christmas, to give yourselves a real fighting chance of turning things around. We can't afford to give him the Luton game.

I was told by a West Stand regular that at the final whistle, Darren Royle and Jonathan Jackson both had faces like thunder and were in discussion. We all know what needs to be done, and it needs to be done now. This cannot drag on any longer.
And there you go!
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The Current Situation 5 days 19 hours ago #178470

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lowey wrote:
Relegation will cost us more than paying off his contract

And that is exactly my point. Sack him and still go down and we pay twice. That is the business/financial decision/gamble they have to make.

Like I say, if it was a guarantee we stay up with a new man then he is probably already gone.
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