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Very interesting comments from Guardiola after West Ham parked the bus. Having beaten 3 teams who played ultra defensively Pep said he has learned lessons and goes 2 up front with wingers. Wonder if it will catch on.
Careful nuneaton. You’ll send donny (no offence me owd mucker) into overdrive.To be fair Runcorn, I’m with Donny on it. Much prefer football played the way we used to. Too much emphasis on passing today. Take Friday for instance just so infuriating having all the play yet little or no joy where it really matters. New bridge is amazing btw, best toll bridge in Britain.
My dad’s uncle used to play for Wigan Borough pre-WW2. They played 2-3-5. When I started watching football in the late 1970s, it was 4-2-4. It then moved to 4-3-3, then 4-4-2, and nowadays, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 or in Scotland’s case a couple of years ago, 4-6-0!
I don’t get why the number of forwards has decreased, whilst the number of defenders has increased – back in the 30s, 40s, there weren’t ridiculous scorelines every week when two defenders faced five forwards.
Give me 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 anyday. I love to see wingers taking on their man on the outside and whipping it across for the centre forward(s) to smash it in!
My dad’s uncle used to play for Wigan Borough pre-WW2. They played 2-3-5. When I started watching football in the late 1970s, it was 4-2-4. It then moved to 4-3-3, then 4-4-2, and nowadays, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 or in Scotland’s case a couple of years ago, 4-6-0!I don’t get why the number of forwards has decreased, whilst the number of defenders has increased – back in the 30s, 40s, there weren’t ridiculous scorelines every week when two defenders faced five forwards.
Give me 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 anyday. I love to see wingers taking on their man on the outside and whipping it across for the centre forward(s) to smash it in!
With you all the way mutt is it down to the fear factor not to lose at any cost why defences are midfield are so packed?. Always got excited with good wingers and proper centre forwards great to watch.
The only slight point I’d make is that no team from the 1920s on played 2-3-5; it was in fact 3-2-5 with the big “stopper centre half” actually being the central defender. Although programmes still gave a 2-3-5 layout, with the change in the offside rule in 1925 to reduce the number of players needed between player and goal-line to two from three. This needed an extra defender, so the centre half dropped back.
Famously Hungary in 1953 numbered their team with the centre half as #3, causing Kenneth Wolstenholme to comment to confused viewers.
The 50s and early 60s saw the heyday of the wingers; but it is in fact arguable whether they were what we would now call forwards or were their midfielders pushing far forward; a sort of 3-4-3, that would alter to a 3-3-4 as one winger ploughed his way to the opposing bye-line.
Ramsey then disposed of the wingers, narrowing the options, but in line with continental practice became more defensively minded, putting 4 into the back line in a 4-3-3. The Italian Catennacio even took one of the forwards and put them behind the back 4 as a sweeper.
Since then the scene has become more fluid, even during matches. Formations ebb and flow throughout the game. The main reason for having less forwards and more midfield is that it doesn’t matter how many forwards you have, if the midfield is over-run the ball will never get to your forwards.
4-4-2 works fine if one of the forwards is prepared to put in a shift helping out the midfield when necessary, but ready to push forward. A very tiring role. So we do tend to see an interim solution of a diamond with one midfield tucked in behind a lone striker, but not committed fully to an attacking role – Jacobs being often seen doing that for us.
As I said though everything is so much more fluid now, changing by the minute, so that at times it is futile to try and put numbers and rigid definitions on how a team is going to play.If a team plays defensively, the best way to play against them is to pass & move it about in order to pull them out of position, stretch them & get in behind.
No particular formation is guaranteed that to do that any more than any other formation whether is 4-5-1, 3-5-2, 4-4-2 or whatever.
On Friday I thought that early on, it is exactly what Latics were doing. The trick is persevering with it if it doesn’t provide a goal in the first 15-20 minutes & that’s what Latics didn’t do. It all became to slow & static & about pumping balls into the box.
They also became quite complacent because at 1-0 the game was very comfortable for them
We can go into the science of it all and debate till the cows come home which is best tactic/formation wise. But simply from a fans eye view it isn’t as good to watch as back in the day. Utd were the real bastions of 4-4-2 and have had some terrific wingers through the years using every inch of the pitch. Now we even talk about them “parking the bus” Who would have thought that?.
Even with 2 up front, a midfield shouldn’t get overrun because at least two of the 4 defenders that are only marking one striker can push forward and join midfield.
If you are facing a lone striker, there is no need to play 4 at the back.
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