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The only problem with that being is that they are not identical scenarios. In fact they’re nowhere near identical – which was the point I was making
I suggest you read what I initially posted again then. The three statements are exactly identical, the only difference is the name of the manager.
All three managers kept us in the Premier League in very similar circumstances. They managed the same club did they not? They played mostly the same opposition did they not? They all worked with a tight budget and either had to sell their best players or had them sold before the arrived did they not?You couldn’t get three more similar circumstances and three more similar outcomes.
So why the difference? Why do two of them get thanked for keeping us in the Premier League and the other gets abuse and criticism and told by the great minds on here (sic) that he is not up to the job?
“The three statements are exactly identical”
The statements aren’t identical yes, but the route to which each manager is able to have that statement said about him is completely different.
Those different routes are why 2 managers didn’t get slated (although Jewell took a hell of alot of stick in that 2nd season) & one is getting slated.
Bloody hell its like if Latics beat a certain team every time they play them – you might have beaten em 10-0 on one occasion, 2-1 on another, 1-0 in the last minute with an own goal after playing against 7 men for 88 minutes in another game etc.. so why did the players get a standing ovation after the first game, polite applause after the 2nd game & stick after the last game??? The answer is in how each victory was achieved.
It isn’t rocket scienceYou asked a question as to why this is so & I’m giving you my reasons.
“You couldn’t get three more similar circumstances and three more similar outcomes” – considering that in each of our 5 seasons in the top flight Latics have got differing numbers of points & finished in different positions in each of them, I’m afraid for the sakes of your argument we have had widely different outcomes beyond “staying up” – a statement which in itself comes nowhere near to describing how a team has performed over the course of a season”The three statements are exactly identical”The statements aren’t identical yes, but the route to which each manager is able to have that statement said about him is completely different.
Those different routes are why 2 managers didn’t get slated (although Jewell took a hell of alot of stick in that 2nd season) & one is getting slated.
Bloody hell its like if Latics beat a certain team every time they play them – you might have beaten em 10-0 on one occasion, 2-1 on another, 1-0 in the last minute with an own goal after playing against 7 men for 88 minutes in another game etc.. so why did the players get a standing ovation after the first game, polite applause after the 2nd game & stick after the last game??? The answer is in how each victory was achieved.
It isn’t rocket scienceYou asked a question as to why this is so & I’m giving you my reasons.
“You couldn’t get three more similar circumstances and three more similar outcomes” – considering that in each of our 5 seasons in the top flight Latics have got differing numbers of points & finished in different positions in each of them, I’m afraid for the sakes of your argument we have had widely different outcomes beyond “staying up” – a statement which in itself comes nowhere near to describing how a team has performed over the course of a seasonBut all that is your opinion, the fact ( key word ) is that all three managers kept us up under very difficult but similar circumstances.
I’m not interested in the scorelines or what each manager did before or after.
I made three statements each of which the first ten letters were the same, the only difference being how each manager was treated, all you seem to be saying is “well Jewell did this before that” or “Bruce did that afterwards” I am basically saying that Jewell kept us up 06/07, Bruce kept us up 07/08 & Martinez kept us up 09/10. That is generally regarded as a successful outcome for Wigan Athletic, even our own chairman says it. Two of them got respect for achieving it, the other got dog’s abuse.It is exactly the same achievement. If you’re now trying to say it’s different because there were different scorelines on different days then that is just splitting hairs. The facts are he’s done what is expected yet for some reason a certain section of our support has the opinion that it doesn’t seem to be enough
Same goes for all these people saying we only stayed up because there were three worse teams than us, that’s pretty much how a league table works, I didn’t hear people saying Bruce only kept us up because Derby only got 11 points that season though?? He kept us up, just like the other two. Over 38 games he got enough points to keep us in this division just like Jewell and Bruce. No difference at all.
Unlike his predecessors Roberto has had to run the club at a massive deficit. Most of the other Managers actually spent more than they brought in.
Players Purchased Players Sold
Jordi Gomez £1,700,000 Luis Antonio Valencia £16,000,000
Hendry Thomas Free
Jason Scotland £2,000,000 Lee Cattermole £6,000,000
James McCarthy ? Michael Brown ?
Mohamed Diame ?
Steven Gohouri Free
Gary Caldwell £500,000
Victor Moses £2,500,000Total £6,700,000 £22,000,000 -£15,300,000
Jewell’s first season here was hardly stunning was it?
Had someone told me the day after we sold Cattermole that Martinez would lead us to safety with 2 games to go having beaten 3 out of the big 4 this season id have been delighted. The goals conceded have been dreadful but the season is over now and we have 3 months to improve the situation. Of which will surely improve with Mario heading off to Platt Bridge Retirement Home.
And he’s not even had it that easy. He had Cattermole leave 3 days before the start of the season as previously mentioned and then had the Marlon King situation which can’t have been great for team morale.
And he’s only 36!
would you trust bob with your cashBased on McCathy and Diame, certainly.
Dont forget Jewell signing Aghahowa and Bruce signing Marlon King.
I will tell you the difference. The other 2 were a bit better when it came to damage limitation ! I dont recall a goal difference as bad as this seasons :oops:
PS. Our fans have the right to be concerned when we have been thrashed several times in one season and when we seem to be completely bereft of ideas in the final third of the pitch. Well I am concerned so does that make me a bad fan ?
It doesn’t make you a bad fan, what does?
Like Scoles says, two managers get praised out of three, for acheiving the exact same thing – their target.
Just get of his back and support him, he did what he was asked to do this season, he has now been asked to improve and I will get behind him while he tries to do that.
FA Cup Winners 2013, sounds good that
“The goals conceded have been dreadful but the season is over now and we have 3 months to improve the situation”
Bobby is the manager who has overseen the demise of a defence that conceded 45 goals last season under Steve Bruce to one which conceded 79 goals this season with pretty much the same personnel.
In short he’s had since pre-season started in July of 2009 to get his defensive system right & its got no better from the low point at which it started.
So why on earth should I have any confidence that he’s going to sort it out over the next 3 months???ScholesControl – You quite clearly think that as long as Latics stay up that is job done & that it doesn’t matter how that is achieved as long as it is achieved
I think differently & if you can’t see that there is a world of difference between being virtually safe by January, occupying a top half position for half the season, finishing 11th & getting 45 points (as we did last season) as opposed to not being safe until there were only 2 games left, being in the bottom half for 90% of the season & bottom 5 for over half of it, finishing 16th & getting 36 points (that’s 20% worse than the previous season) then there’s really little point in us continuing talkign about it coz you aint gonna change my mind & its clear I aint gonna change yours
You still can’t bring yourself to answering his question.
Did Roberto come here saying he was going to set the league on fire by getting us a European place this year, did he say he was going to get us into the top ten this year?
No he didn’t. He said that the first year would be transitional and that he hoped that he could get the points to survive this year. I t was going to be a new style, a new set up and a new ethos at Wigan Athletic and things wouldn’t happen overnight.
Why then were the expextations so different from a part of the fan base.
I do remember Bruce saying he was going to go for Europe and ended up winning just 2 more games out of 21 after that, did he get slaughtered, No.
So why is someone who told it as it would be getting all this grief?
Scholes’ question is the same, 3 managers acheived axactly the same, why are two lauded (sp?) and one slaughtered?
FA Cup Winners 2013, sounds good that
He never promised a thing but losing 9-1, 8-0, 5-0 (twice), 4-0 (thrice), 4-1 to Blackpool, having a League 2 side knock us out of the cup is something beyond a transitional period/season. It’s a decline.
Those results far outweigh wins over Chelsea (superb), Arsenal (10 minutes of magic) and (a very poor) Liverpool.
He’ll be in charge next season and all proper and decent fans will be behind him and the team but anyone who thinks he’s genuinely achieved something this season is in some sort of denial.
He never promised a thing but losing 9-1, 8-0, 5-0 (twice), 4-0 (thrice), 4-1 to Blackpool, having a League 2 side knock us out of the cup is something beyond a transitional period/season. It’s a decline.Those results far outweigh wins over Chelsea (superb), Arsenal (10 minutes of magic) and (a very poor) Liverpool.
He’ll be in charge next season and all proper and decent fans will be behind him and the team but anyone who thinks he’s genuinely achieved something this season is in some sort of denial.
I don’t think he’s achieved anything, and no-one is saying that he has, apart from his stated target of not being relegated, which I agree should be a given.
But aside from the first half of the first season under Jewell and a short spell under Bruce, no-one else has either. Other than the 8-0 and 9-1 aberrations he hasn’t done that much worse than anyone else.
And it’s coming to something when we’re getting a bit sniffy that we have to content ourslelves with beating just a “poor” Liverpool side
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