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This proves the Martinez way isnt the best for us in the attacking department.
Since he took over his Striker signings
Jason Scotland, Marcelo Moreno, Mauro Boselli, Franco Di Santo and Connor Sammon between them have made :-
112 Appearances
6 GoalsBetween all of them. That is league appearances and goals. I hadn’t noticed it was that poor. Surely his judge of a player and reluctance to play any kind of attacking football must be brought into question based on that alone.
It’s extremely poor but at the same time annoyingly disappointing that he has never tried to address it. He has changed the back line and that was seemingly making a difference over the last month but why cant he see the other important bit. If that white bag of wind doesn’t go in the other teams net then we lose.
And they cost around 14m too including Moreno’s loan fee.
1m re-couped off Scotland
1m maybe from BoselliIt is a disappointing statistic Yosser, but to me it proves you simply cannot tell if a player will have enough to adapt and score goals from one division to another.
In that list of players you have the top goalscorer in the Championship, the top goalscorer in South Americian football, and one of the top goalscorers in the SPL.
You hear people saying ‘Blah-di-blah knows where the back of the net is’…clearly these three also knew where the back of the net was but lost it en route to Wigan.
If you cannot afford proven decent Premier League strikers (which we can’t), or those you can afford won’t come to the club (which I’m sure is the case in many instances) you have to try your luck with lower leagues, Scotland and further afield. That’s what we’ve done and that’s what we’ll continue doing.
It is a disappointing statistic Yosser, but to me it proves you simply cannot tell if a player will have enough to adapt and score goals from one division to another.
In that list of players you have the top goalscorer in the Championship, the top goalscorer in South Americian football, and one of the top goalscorers in the SPL.
You hear people saying ‘Blah-di-blah knows where the back of the net is’…clearly these three also knew where the back of the net was but lost it en route to Wigan.
If you cannot afford proven decent Premier League strikers (which we can’t), or those you can afford won’t come to the club (which I’m sure is the case in many instances) you have to try your luck with lower leagues, Scotland and further afield. That’s what we’ve done and that’s what we’ll continue doing.
Robbie contributed to Bosselli’s downfall by him being left up top on his own.First game Blackpool home surely not ideal debut game knowing how fired up pool would be.The fact he only just missed out on Argy world cup squad behind the likes of Higuain,Messi,Tevez means he must be better than what we saw.He wasnt the biggest unit so lone roll surely not his forte,certainly not in the prem.I think he systematically had his confidence crushed ,shame……..
A valiant attempt to defend Bobby’s record on that score but:
1) He spent over £6mill on bringing in a striker that his direcor of football told him was neither suited to his system or the English game. Whilst I’m not trying to argue that John Benson was the Oracle of footballing knowledge it does show that, especially as Bobby put his foot down on this one & essentially pushed Benson out of the club, that his judgement on whether a player had what it took was pretty bad on that score
2) Jason Scotland wasn’t the top scorer in the Championship when he was signed. One of em admittedly but not tht top scorer. You do however have to question the judgement of a manager who didn’t think that there was a reason a 30 year old hadn’t been identified by any other club as a potential premier league striker prior to him reaching the twilight of his career
3) Franco Di Santo’s goal record was shocking prior to him coming to Latics yet our manager still spent a substantial amount of cash bringing him to the club & though he had the attributes to play as a lone striker. Not whilst I have a hole in my ass he doesn’t!!That said, I like Conor Sammon. If Bobby persists with 1 up front then for me, of all the strikers at the club, Sammon has the attributes best suited to that role.
goodpost I couldnt agree more,Sammon puts a shift in but i.m.o he falls short of Prem standard.We will only create a small no of real goalscoring opportunities and we need an AJ style finisher to convert 1.I appreciate how difficult they are to come by but his attempts so far dont inspire confidence that he will ever address this.
A valiant attempt to defend Bobby’s record on that score but:
1) He spent over £6mill on bringing in a striker that his direcor of football told him was neither suited to his system or the English game. Whilst I’m not trying to argue that John Benson was the Oracle of footballing knowledge it does show that, especially as Bobby put his foot down on this one & essentially pushed Benson out of the club, that his judgement on whether a player had what it took was pretty bad on that score
2) Jason Scotland wasn’t the top scorer in the Championship when he was signed. One of em admittedly but not tht top scorer. You do however have to question the judgement of a manager who didn’t think that there was a reason a 30 year old hadn’t been identified by any other club as a potential premier league striker prior to him reaching the twilight of his career
3) Franco Di Santo’s goal record was shocking prior to him coming to Latics yet our manager still spent a substantial amount of cash bringing him to the club & though he had the attributes to play as a lone striker. Not whilst I have a hole in my ass he doesn’t!!That said, I like Conor Sammon. If Bobby persists with 1 up front then for me, of all the strikers at the club, Sammon has the attributes best suited to that role.
I’m sure you didn’t mean that response to sound as patronising as it does, therefore I’ll ignore the opening and move onto the body of the post…
Let me get this straight – I wasn’t claiming that Martinez’s decisions were the right ones, I was merely saying to Yosser that you cannot be certain who will succeed or who will not, even when on paper it suggests to them being able to get a goal or two.
Boselli – yes, errors were made somewhere down the line. I wasn’t involved in the conversations between Martinez and Benson, and I doubt very much if you were. The reports about Benson advising against signing him have all come through hearsay and after the event. If Benson did leave because of his position being undermined on this signing, then I think Martinez has made a glaring error if the player is sold without playing for the club again. Neither of us however, can comment on the content, tone of, or outcome of conversations and advice we were not privy to.
Personally, I always thought Boselli showed signs of being a good player, and got slated on this board for saying so at the time – but, I’m not a scout, coach or a football manager. When, however, you heard the club were signing a prolific goal scorer from Argentina, who was just behind Tevez et al in the pecking order, did you honest not think there must be a goal or two in there?
Jason Scotland – not the Championship’s top scorer, but one of them? Potato fooking pataataa.
I’ve just Googled it and he was second – with 21 goals instead of 25. A massive 4 goals behind Ebanks Blake in Scotland’s first season at that level. The point is, he can score goals and in 90 games for Swansea, he scored 45 goals playing predominantly as a lone striker. Had he never been signed you’d have had people on this board asking why we’d never considered signing him. We did, and unfortunately it didn’t pay off.
Bear in mind that Martinez was just about to manage a team in the Premier League for the first time in his life when he signed Scotland. When you need goals, who better to turn to than the star striker from your last club?
Sammon, in my opinion, has the first touch of Peter Sutcliffe on occasion. He is however enthusiastic, and makes some good runs.
Di Santo has much more ability (but again, that’s just my personal opinion). Everyone writes about how hard Sammon works; do you not think that Di Santo also works hard when he’s on the pitch? Watch him – he never stops running. This argument however, is not who runs the most, but where are the goals.
You said you’d like Sammon to play the lone striker if Martinez persists with one up front. He hasn’t been playing one up front for weeks. It’s been two, and sometimes three.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Boselli given another go – up front with Di Santo or Sammon and/or Moses, but I doubt very much if he wants to come back to England other than to clear his locker permanently.
I’m sure you didn’t mean that response to sound as patronising as it does, therefore I’ll ignore the opening and move onto the body of the post…Let me get this straight – I wasn’t claiming that Martinez’s decisions were the right ones, I was merely saying to Yosser that you cannot be certain who will succeed or who will not, even when on paper it suggests to them being able to get a goal or two.
Boselli – yes, errors were made somewhere down the line. I wasn’t involved in the conversations between Martinez and Benson, and I doubt very much if you were. The reports about Benson advising against signing him have all come through hearsay and after the event. If Benson did leave because of his position being undermined on this signing, then I think Martinez has made a glaring error if the player is sold without playing for the club again. Neither of us however, can comment on the content, tone of, or outcome of conversations and advice we were not privy to.
Personally, I always thought Boselli showed signs of being a good player, and got slated on this board for saying so at the time – but, I’m not a scout, coach or a football manager. When, however, you heard the club were signing a prolific goal scorer from Argentina, who was just behind Tevez et al in the pecking order, did you honest not think there must be a goal or two in there?
Jason Scotland – not the Championship’s top scorer, but one of them? Potato fooking pataataa.
I’ve just Googled it and he was second – with 21 goals instead of 25. A massive 4 goals behind Ebanks Blake in Scotland’s first season at that level. The point is, he can score goals and in 90 games for Swansea, he scored 45 goals playing predominantly as a lone striker. Had he never been signed you’d have had people on this board asking why we’d never considered signing him. We did, and unfortunately it didn’t pay off.
Bear in mind that Martinez was just about to manage a team in the Premier League for the first time in his life when he signed Scotland. When you need goals, who better to turn to than the star striker from your last club?
Sammon, in my opinion, has the first touch of Peter Sutcliffe on occasion. He is however enthusiastic, and makes some good runs.
Di Santo has much more ability (but again, that’s just my personal opinion). Everyone writes about how hard Sammon works; do you not think that Di Santo also works hard when he’s on the pitch? Watch him – he never stops running. This argument however, is not who runs the most, but where are the goals.
You said you’d like Sammon to play the lone striker if Martinez persists with one up front. He hasn’t been playing one up front for weeks. It’s been two, and sometimes three.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Boselli given another go – up front with Di Santo or Sammon and/or Moses, but I doubt very much if he wants to come back to England other than to clear his locker permanently.
Apologies for sounding patronising – you’re right that wasn’t the intent.
Of course I wasn’t privvy to any discussions between Bobby & Benno – I should have put “assuming the stories are true”. I’m as certain as I can be however that there was a big disagreement there though.
Did I thik there was a goal or 2 in him when i heard latics were signing him? Initially possibly, but then I looked at the stats & saw he’d had a poor goals return from his previous stint in Europe & that, bar the one previous season, his goal scoring record in Argentina wasn’t too hot either. That was tempered with an undoubtedly fantastic season with Estudiantes prior to joining though. In truth I didn’t know what to expect – i did however contact the South American football blogger on the BBC website & ask about him & his opinion was that he wouldn’t be a success, pretty much for the reasons I attributed to John Benson in my last post. Think he wrote (amongst other things) something along the lines of “he’s not a grafter & needs others to put chances on a plate for him. He gets that at Estudiantes as they are one of the top sides – I’m not sure he’ll get it at Wigan”
Anyway, my point being that you can watch a player for a relatively brief period & know what they’re capable of doing & what they aren’t capable of doing. Bobby watched Boselli extensively but couldn’t see that he wasn’t up to the physical demands of English football or playing as a lone striker – other’s who had seen him could see that. You therefore have to question Bobby’s judgement on this “big time” & i think that was the initial poster’s pointOn Scotland, I made the point when he signed that my big concern was whether a 30 yr old who was effectively a lower division/scottish league journey man was suddenly good enough for the top flight. In other words there had to be some reason why despite being in the latter stages of his career no manager had ever thought him good enough for this level. Those concerns were proved correct but Bobby’s words on signing him were (presumably after a question from a journalist that hinted at those concerns) were along the lines of that he had no doubt that he had the attributes neccesary to be a success in the top flight. I also had the concern as to why (despite his goals tally) that he was really unpopular with the Swansea fans many of who accused him of being lazy? Again therefore you have to question Bobby’s judgement when someone who he “had no doubt” would be a success was a complete flop from the word go
I agree that Di Santo has much more ability that Sammon & if Bobby played 2 up front then my personal preferences would be for Di Santo & Rodallega but do i think he works as hard as Sammon in pressing the opposition back line? No, not at all – well he does in parts & then just seems to give up. I don’t think Sammon is the best footballer of all time but of the strikers Latics have he is the most suited to that lone striker role.
Oh & I’ll ignore the patronising tone of your penultimate paragraph as I’m sure that wasn;t your intent ;) & just say that regardless of the recent tweak in formation it is still a lone striker system. Moses & Gomez aren’t operating as forwards by any stretch of the imagination & their positions are much more fluid. Sammon/Rodallega/Di Santo when used as the spearhead so to speak are the only striker/forward on the pitch
I agree with your last paragraph in that I’d like to see Boselli back if he were to be played in a traditional 2 or 3 up front system. That’s never gonna happen though whilst Bobby’s in charge
Di Santo is the best of a bad bunch ! Sammon is definitely not up to playing in the Prem and Rodellaga is really only interested in his own future which isn’t here at Wigan !
Di Santo is the best of a bad bunch ! Sammon is definitely not up to playing in the Prem and Rodellaga is really only interested in his own future which isn’t here at Wigan !What makes you say that about Rodallega?
Di Santo is the best of a bad bunch ! Sammon is definitely not up to playing in the Prem and Rodellaga is really only interested in his own future which isn’t here at Wigan !
What makes you say that about Rodallega?[/quote]
I just don’t think his heart is in it and he is a ” Want away ” player !
This is harsh on Sammon. In games he has started we have played pretty well on whole which must mean we adapt better as a team with him up front. He holds it up and is a menace to defenders. Hugo simply plays for himself. Not for the team. Always has done.
This is harsh on Sammon. In games he has started we have played pretty well on whole which must mean we adapt better as a team with him up front. He holds it up and is a menace to defenders. Hugo simply plays for himself. Not for the team. Always has done.Sammon cant be faulted for effort but he just isn’t good enough ! He would be an asset to any club in the lower divisions and if he was to go I would wish him all the best because he has tried his best for us.
in your last paragraph, replace the word ‘Sammon’ with ‘ Martinez’ and it works even better!!
This is harsh on Sammon. In games he has started we have played pretty well on whole which must mean we adapt better as a team with him up front. He holds it up and is a menace to defenders. Hugo simply plays for himself. Not for the team. Always has done.
Sammon cant be faulted for effort but he just isn’t good enough ! He would be an asset to any club in the lower divisions and if he was to go I would wish him all the best because he has tried his best for us.[/quote]
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