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It amazes me how many folk who were salivating at Martinez coming on board are now calling for his head.
What did you expect from an unproven manager trying to play an ambitious new system with a depleted squad? That we were going to carry on where Bruce left off and be pushing for Europe? Get real.This season was always going to be about building and learning (for Bob, the players and us) for next season whilst avoiding the drop, and even though I was very pessimistic about the Bobby Bandwagon before this season kicked off I’ve seen and heard enough between the guff to make me believe that we’re heading in the right direction.
1. We are trying to play the way the game intendedand showed great signs of it at times
2. We have a manager who has galvanised the fans
3. We are clear of relegation and on course for safety (allbeit a rollercoaster course)Have we lost 9 on the trot (Jewell) or 8ish on the trot (Hutchings). No. Did we call for their heads then – no. Even after 8 losses for Hutchings we had less folk than now on this board baying for him (and there were much more folk on this board back then).
That said there is much work to be done and some strategic and tactical fundamentals that need sorting.
1. If you’re unproven in the Prem as a manager, don’t surround yourself with folk who are even less experienced than you. Bob needs an experienced backroom staff and there’s no shortage of out of work / lower division managers and coaches with prem experience
2. Buy/loan proven premiership players. We all laughed when Kilbane/Sibierski/Heskey/Unsworth/etc came along, but boy did their experience count for some. Ball should be signed.
3. Don’t send out messages that you don’t care if you lose by 3,4.5 goals as long as you play the right way. What message does that give the players and the fans? It’s OK if you’re scoring bagfulls in other games, but we all know value of a single goal. Bob needs to watch that game against Sheff U.
4. Make Scharner captain or at least give Mario and everyone else some leadership coaching. We need 11 leaders on the pitch, not just 0.5.
5. Stop picking the same blooming team and making exactly the same subs every week. Whilst we don’t have great strength in depth we do have some players who are on a par with the first team (e.g Cho, Koumas, Sinclair, even Kapo need to be used more effectively)
None of this though, as you can see, involves sacking the manager. He needs our faith, patience and support as a central constant whilst he makes some big decisons/changes around him.
forgive me if i have midunderstood you but what you are saying is,
1)the problems at the moment are down to jones and barrow not the spanish one,so you say trust his judgment on players,but not his ability to pick coaches ?
2) this depleted squad is down to who,as far as i was aware we only lost cattermole from martinez’s final squad, he brought in scotland,gomez, amaya,mc carthy, sinclaire,diame,thomas, how many of those would have got into last seasons side ?
(scotland would not even have got in the side that won the old 1st. division )3)bring in some proven premiership players,including one as bad as michael ball,but let the likes of micheal brown and ben watson go ?
4)and finally you want to include players now who ,according to the majority of fans are rubbish(please dont make me look back to find the anti kapo or koumas posts on here) why do you want to use these players ? are the ones signed in phase one of the cultural revolution not good enough ?
every thing you say,you then go on to contradict yourself,you go onto add
1. We are trying to play the way the game intendedand showed great signs of it at times can you tell me when,
i dont think that 50 sideway passes ,with not one person able to make a killer pass, meanwhile the opposistion just stand back and watch until we give them the ball back,is very pretty,but perhaps thats just me
all i have heard in argument against my ‘martinez out thread’ is what you are saying – its the players fault-edman last week – melchiot this week ,its the backroom staff its whelan,its the coaching staff,its the timesale for change,and its even people like me for not being involved in the great martinez love in,
well it seems the only constant in this lot is, everybody is at fault except martinez!
sorted europe here we come.It amazes me how many folk who were salivating at Martinez coming on board are now calling for his head.
What did you expect from an unproven manager trying to play an ambitious new system with a depleted squad? That we were going to carry on where Bruce left off and be pushing for Europe? Get real.This season was always going to be about building and learning (for Bob, the players and us) for next season whilst avoiding the drop, and even though I was very pessimistic about the Bobby Bandwagon before this season kicked off I’ve seen and heard enough between the guff to make me believe that we’re heading in the right direction.
1. We are trying to play the way the game intendedand showed great signs of it at times
2. We have a manager who has galvanised the fans
3. We are clear of relegation and on course for safety (allbeit a rollercoaster course)Have we lost 9 on the trot (Jewell) or 8ish on the trot (Hutchings). No. Did we call for their heads then – no. Even after 8 losses for Hutchings we had less folk than now on this board baying for him (and there were much more folk on this board back then).
That said there is much work to be done and some strategic and tactical fundamentals that need sorting.
1. If you’re unproven in the Prem as a manager, don’t surround yourself with folk who are even less experienced than you. Bob needs an experienced backroom staff and there’s no shortage of out of work / lower division managers and coaches with prem experience
2. Buy/loan proven premiership players. We all laughed when Kilbane/Sibierski/Heskey/Unsworth/etc came along, but boy did their experience count for some. Ball should be signed.
3. Don’t send out messages that you don’t care if you lose by 3,4.5 goals as long as you play the right way. What message does that give the players and the fans? It’s OK if you’re scoring bagfulls in other games, but we all know value of a single goal. Bob needs to watch that game against Sheff U.
4. Make Scharner captain or at least give Mario and everyone else some leadership coaching. We need 11 leaders on the pitch, not just 0.5.
5. Stop picking the same blooming team and making exactly the same subs every week. Whilst we don’t have great strength in depth we do have some players who are on a par with the first team (e.g Cho, Koumas, Sinclair, even Kapo need to be used more effectively)
None of this though, as you can see, involves sacking the manager. He needs our faith, patience and support as a central constant whilst he makes some big decisons/changes around him.
What a load of shit, Anyone can pass along the back four then hit a ball to the wings, and if martinez thinks that, scotland, gomez jones and barrow are good enough, then we have a manager ith great judgment, not, When we played against sunderland why did he not start with the team that finished that game, and if he says rodney cant play up front on his own, well lets try 442, and b4 you start i didnt want martinez because he his just too inexperienced for the prem as ince found out, but eh it was one of whelans cheap options
“Sentimentality over Sense”.
I need say no more.
Stated elsewhere I loved the guy as a player, thought he was great. Love him as a bloke, approachable, friendly, overall good-guy.
But……
I never said none of it was Martinez fault – just that sacking him is not the answer. I didn’t think he was the right appointment for us either, but in balance he’s bringing something exciting, different and workable…over time.
Current form (whilst inconsistent) suggests we won’t be relegated and hints at great things to come. Granted, if we’re in the bottom 3 and adrift at crimbo I’ll rethink my position – I just don’t think we need to panic now cos we win one then lose one and occasionally draw one (even with the amount of goals we’re shipping)To the other points…
Depleted in that he’d inherited team that had its spine ripped out over 6 months (Emile, LAV, Catts, Wilson, plus letting the likes of Brown and (dare I say it) Camara go).
Agree with you re: who we’ve bought – was implied by my point on buying proven premiership playersAgreed on Brown – Watson was hardly proven though
I’m not saying that the likes of Koumas and Kapo will turn things around, but on their day they are very good players. Our current tactic (partly as Roberto has no better options, partly still tactically naive at this level) is to bring on Gomez after 60min and Sinclair after 83, no matter what. We need to tap into what makes em tick (look at Koumas at the start of Hutchings and this season; Kapo’s substitute appearances last season), esp as out of most of the squad they are two who are suited to a passing game.
At £2m I wouldn’t call Martinez a cheap option. Actually, I think we were robbed, esp. when much more experienced heads like (I think at the time) Curbishley and Coppel were going for nout.
Yes, our passing game is flat, but you need to run before you can walk. We weren’t going to turn into Arsenal overnight. It’s about progression. As crazy as it sounds, the team needs to learn HOW to pass successfully, before taking greater and greater risks in moving forwards. Unfortunately, they have to take risks whilst learning which means they get caught out when things don’t work out.
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