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I know some people get upset if there’s criticism posted but hopefully I’m among friends so you’ll let me express a few concerns that have been keeping me awake at night !
I was at White Hart Lane for the historic humiliation- and it was a humiliation. I’ve often seen teams line up and thought that everryone of theirs was better than everyone of ours. I’ve anticpated a hammering but so often a Wigan underdog spirit has pulled us through. There was nothing to cling to on Sunday. The players didn’t seem to respect each other and without that a team is nothing. In fairness Spurs were good but no better than Rooney, Henry, Torres, Tevez and various others who haven’t ripped Wigan teams to so many bits. There was no leadership on the pitch and whilst RM stood tall by the side of the pitch I saw no sign that the team respected him or his tactics. He’s a nice guy but I’m saddened to say he’s got it wrong.The game plan won’t work. At Villa we took them by surprise, WHU aren’t a great side and have the same frailties as us, Chelsea was a great day- but they obviously didn’t think they needed to break sweat to win and never got revved up – whilst at Burnley the injury to Jensen was a massive boost.These are the bonuses. The downside is disturbing. It seems that so many managers know how to stop a Martinez side playing – they use the same anti- Arsenal tactics only it’s easier because our players are 1/4 as good as theirs. Mick McCarthy set the tone – pressure on the midfield and let the defenders have it because they can’t create anything. Since then Holloway at Blackpool and Hart at Portsmouth have routed us – obviously Harry the spiv would have his lot up for it and they blasted us off the park from the first minute.
I’d love RM to be a success and don’t want him fired but he needs to get real. Let the back 4 defend. Play 4 in midfield with N’Zogbia on one side and Sinclair on the other and get some support for that poor lad Scotland – obviously Hugo is the man.
I remember Colin Lee was recruited to help PJ in his darkest hour after the Canvey defeat and that turned the season round. Bob needs something similar.Be great to see Arry back but if that’s not possible then someone with Premiership nous is needed- Graham Barrow and Graeme Jones were good lower league scrappers but who listens to them as coaches ?We will never get the top players to Wigan and you need top players to play lovely little triangles and win matches. We need a more basic system. Bruce had it sussed until Jan. It’s the only model that will work for us.
Thanks for putting up with this ramble. I’v waited 2 days before posting because I needed to let my anger subside.
I bet you feel better getting that lot off your chest Mak , and I can see what you are saying.
However I believe that a lot of our problems have come about , to some extent , because of what happened in Summer. The long drawn out appointment of Bob , and then the even further delay for the appointment of his coaching staff meant that we were proably a good 3 or 4 weeks behind most other clubs in our spending. Added to that Bob & his scouts had probably been monitoring players who they wanted to play for Swansea in the Championship. Suddenly the goal posts had moved & they were looking for potential Prem players.
I also believe that a good deal of the squad players , some bought by Bruce , are simply not good enough. Even after a 9-1 thrashing can you see many changes being made to the starting eleven on Saturday. Some of the players know that no matter how poor they are , they’ll still be in the team. That can’t be a good thing. Above all else we need some steel & also a leader on the pitch. I was shocked to see that during our 9-1 defeat we obtained NO bookings. It was almost as if the players just shrugged their shoulders and said so what.
Hopefully in January we will bring in some better quality players who can play the system that Bob obviously prefers. I don’t expect we will ever be challenging the top 4 but I don’t see why we can’t be a good mid table team playing good watchable football.
I bet you feel better getting that lot off your chest Mak , and I can see what you are saying.However I believe that a lot of our problems have come about , to some extent , because of what happened in Summer. The long drawn out appointment of Bob , and then the even further delay for the appointment of his coaching staff meant that we were proably a good 3 or 4 weeks behind most other clubs in our spending. Added to that Bob & his scouts had probably been monitoring players who they wanted to play for Swansea in the Championship. Suddenly the goal posts had moved & they were looking for potential Prem players.
I also believe that a good deal of the squad players , some bought by Bruce , are simply not good enough. Even after a 9-1 thrashing can you see many changes being made to the starting eleven on Saturday. Some of the players know that no matter how poor they are , they’ll still be in the team. That can’t be a good thing. Above all else we need some steel & also a leader on the pitch. I was shocked to see that during our 9-1 defeat we obtained NO bookings. It was almost as if the players just shrugged their shoulders and said so what.
Hopefully in January we will bring in some better quality players who can play the system that Bob obviously prefers. I don’t expect we will ever be challenging the top 4 but I don’t see why we can’t be a good mid table team playing good watchable football.
Just what ive been saying but you put it better than i do
Yep agree with that manny but the question is were you arturo_gatti?Yes indeed.
After what happened though , I thought it better to change my name out of respect for the main man.
However I believe that a lot of our problems have come about , to some extent , because of what happened in Summer. The long drawn out appointment of Bob , and then the even further delay for the appointment of his coaching staff meant that we were proably a good 3 or 4 weeks behind most other clubs in our spending. Added to that Bob & his scouts had probably been monitoring players who they wanted to play for Swansea in the Championship. Suddenly the goal posts had moved & they were looking for potential Prem players.I also believe that a good deal of the squad players , some bought by Bruce , are simply not good enough. Even after a 9-1 thrashing can you see many changes being made to the starting eleven on Saturday. Some of the players know that no matter how poor they are , they’ll still be in the team. That can’t be a good thing. Above all else we need some steel & also a leader on the pitch. I was shocked to see that during our 9-1 defeat we obtained NO bookings. It was almost as if the players just shrugged their shoulders and said so what.
Hopefully in January we will bring in some better quality players who can play the system that Bob obviously prefers. I don’t expect we will ever be challenging the top 4 but I don’t see why we can’t be a good mid table team playing good watchable football.
Well said Mr SMB……..the two points you mention (delay in appointment and lack of mettle/leadership) I believe, are the main catalysts to our current dilema. Recent history has also shown this………Bruce’s appointment nearly turned into a fiasco and the ‘kneejerk’ placement of Mr Hutchins was pure farce.
It’s alright gelling your team to play neat and attractive football but if they are new (and new to the premiership) then leadership on the field is a must – and in that department we lack…………….it’s not scientology (as Mrs Micky misquoted to me the other night :D ).
I am here because I choose to be, through thick and thin. I suppose that’s what being a fan and supporter is all about – and I look forward to being that good mid-table team playing good watchable football.
It will happen.
it wont happen,hull won last night to heap mre pressure on us for sat – from what i hear there is a little uprest within the squad. coaching staff arnt up to it and neither is our bobby, we have to team spirit we have shown in recent years to many forign players, no fight withing the ranks. We are in for a relegation battle make no mistakes about that, i think the crowd myself included will turn on bobby and the team if we see anything like what i witnessed on sunday. I know the football at times is a joy to watch, for me i would sooner see my team fight for every header, tackle, pass, every yard that needs to be gained on the pitch to stop a cross or shot, thats what PJ installed and what Bruce maintained, utchings tried to play attractive foorball and he was sacked in november. I just feel we have nothing elsein the locker, once teams stop us from playing we dont want to start scrapping for the ball. If i was Mr whelan i would give bob 2 more games and if its no better he would be out, i would then bring PJ or Curbishley in to install a bit or passion back in the team some motivation, which they obviously havent got, i mean bob is a lovely bloke and that but he couldnt inspire me to cross the road, he seem motionless during games as does jones who just sits on the bench, Get PJ back in till the end of the season, pull us out of trouble and maybe re-appiont in the summer!! this is not good enough, i cam away from white hart lane sunday, and could see n’zogbia on is mobile giggling to god knows who whilst boarding the team bus.. that said it all for me!!!! lack of respect for the manger and staff!!! lets get it right this club should be easy to keep up, we have an unlimited transfer kitty and take out the big four one of the highest wage bills in the league, surely it would be an easy task, look at the clubs around us, they are all being run on a tight budget – birngham 21m wage bill, wolves 16m, stoke, 17m, west ham 35m, then look at us with 55m..surely that aint right!!! come on bob, i with many others are with you for now, but it must turn quick!!!
£55 million wage bill ?
Have you got a link for this? and up untill 08 it was £38 million and all the big earners have fo oked off
Careful Squire. Criticism of Martinez aint allowed!
Hopefully the players will roll up their sleeves on Sat and put last weekend behind em.
“I was shocked to see that during our 9-1 defeat we obtained NO bookings”
From Bobby’s post match comments, the lack of bookings appears to have been some sort of instruction from him once they conceded the 4th!!
I don’t believe the slight delay in appointing Bobby has had any major effect on us. Yes you can use that as an excuse to some extent in the opening weeks but ffs we’re now the best part of 4 months into the season & it can no longer be used as an excuse.
As for the scouts looking for championship players & then having the goalposts moved, I take your point but its Bobby who believed (& still does if last weeks fans forum is anything to go by) that Jason Scotland & Jordi Gomez are good enough for the top flight – are they feckin hell as likeThe major fault at present is quite clearly Bobby’s tactics – The back 5 have been for the most part the same this season as last. Last season we had one of the best defensive records, so far this season we have the worst. That’s got naff all to do with goalposts moving or being 3 weeks behind in our spending – its purely down to Bobby & his coaching staff. Watching from the sidelines they seem to no longer be told their job is primarily as a defender (did someone on here say that Martinez said at the Forum he didn’t believe in defensive coaches) but that they are where our attacking play starts from.
Its not a delay in Bobby’s appointment that is to blame for us having one formation & tactic (4-5-1 & slow steady, build from the back build up play) and no plan b – that is Bobby’s decision/fault.
Its not a delay in Bobby’s appointment that is to blame for us playing a left winger on the right wing & our most prolific forward on the left wing
Its not a delay in his appointment that is insisting on playing Paul Scharner in an upfront/midfield role because that’s where Scharner told him he wants to play – it took Steve Bruce 2 games at the start of his reign to realise his only position in the top flight was at centre half & another couple of games when he tried it earlier this year“Graham Barrow and Graeme Jones were good lower league scrappers but who listens to them as coaches ?” – I said around the time of their appointment that this was a big concern of mine & said it was a concern about Bobby too. If its happening its as much the fault of the players as Bobby but he is the person (much like Jewell did in his first season in charge) who needs to sort it out or (like Jewell) get Whelan to do it for him!!!!
The team performances reek of players who are confused & disheartened & the blame for that lies solely at the feet of Martinez & his staff
I watched the MOTD highlights for the first time yesterday. In the whole game (or what i saw which was obviously 10 goals worth at least) I didn’t see one midfielder or defender actually attempt to make a tackle (sorry, Boyce dived in once on Defoe to make a last-gasp clearance) so it is hardle surprising no-one was booked.
You can agree/disagree with Bobby’s tactics all you want, but I am not having that players were told not to make an attempt to tackle. We just looked 2 yards off the whole game from the first minute.
Mr Tyldesley your post makes for good argument and you highlight some common feeling among the supporters, however, I’ll have to agree to disagree with you a couple of your points (after all what’s this board about if we cannot share opinion?)
Any delay, at this level, is bound to have its repercussions. Let’s not forget that the ‘cherries’ had already been picked and he had been left with part of Bruce’s legacy – also regardless of the soothsayers (here and other boards) no-one really knows who the real targets were and what could be had within the timescale (even Bruce admitted that he couldn’t take ‘Figgy’ to the North East in time…… and he was already in post). I agree that normally 4 months is a fairly reasonable amount of time to ‘gel’ your team but who else, along with me, has felt that this has been the most erratic stop/start to any season in recent times (break for this, break for that) it’s hardly helped him. As for your observation on Gomez and Scotland I don’t believe this is what Mr SMB said, however, he did say “some of the players know that no matter how poor they are, they’ll still be in the team” – what I think you’re saying is that if Roberto wanted to destroy what little remains of the team confidence then all he needs to do is tell them this…….then we would go down faster than a slapper on King Street (that would be great man management skills).
I think you are right about our defensive record and I agree that the change to our style of play has shown us to be a little lacking in that area – it’s been said before maybe he does need a defensive coach, but I disagree on his only game plan being a 4-5-1 formation, I have seen him play 4-3-3 a few times and he has even played a traditional 4-4-2 (with Hugo and Scotland) albeit for only a couple of ‘secondhalfs’ (however you spell that) – some people just need to be able to read the formation on the field rather than listen to pub chatter.
Anyway, your closing point about “it’s as much the fault of the players as Bobby” is well put – some of these people who represent our wonderful town on the playing field need to realise the passion of the few, they need to understand that their performances are for our benefit and not their upwardly looking career move to the big clubs like Bolton or Fulham. Failure to play their hearts out for the shirt, the team and the town, in my opinion, is a cardinal sin – and will be remembered.
I still believe that we will prevail.
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