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It’s a pointless question TL because Whelan has already said he won’t sack him, even if we are relegated.
That suggests to me that he will be given this season and at least next.
I’m not saying the man is the finished article by any stretch, but under the circumstances under which he appears to have to work, I would like to see who is replacement would be before we get shut, personally.
There could be a frying pan and fire situation.
I don’t think it is a pointless question to be honest. I’m not asking anyone how long they think Whelan will give him I’m asking people who say stuff along the lines of “We need to give him time to get his own players/tactics/training methods accross to the players” or quite simply “give him time & he will come good”, just how long a time they think is suitable for a manager to be given before they will think “You know what you’ve had your chance. Time to move on”
They’re not saying (by & large) “Whelan has said he is going to be at Latics for the long haul so get used to it”, they’re saying that they feel he should be given more time so I’m just enquiring as to how long they think that time should be
You know I’be thought for a long time that he isn’t up to the job. That’s not to say I want him sacked now or that he hasn’t made some progress but 12 months ago these people were saying “give him time”. 12 months later they are saying “give him time”. How long in their (not Whelan’s) opinion do they think that time should be
Whelan has already been far more patient with Bobby than he was with all his other managers (with the exception of Jewell in his first season) so for once maybe he is going to stick to what he says. Me personally, I don’t go much by what he says as he’ll often go out & do the very things he’s just said he’d never do but I tend to think that his finger has at times quivered over the trigger but those occasional stella performances & results Bobby can pull out of the bag have come at times to make him think (as it seems to do with alot of supporters) that he’s getting it right
Whelan was quite vocal on a couple of occasions in his criticism of some of Bobby’s tactics over the course of last season over the close season which makes me think this “Best coach in Europe” stuff he’s also come out with disguises some of his true thoughtsOk. I’ll have a bash at it, TL.
I’d give him the rest of this season. If we go down, we go down.
If we stay up and are still in the relegation places-ish this time next year, ie end November, there’s an argument for sacking him then. IF, that is, there is money in place to finance a new man.
There. A very woolly and not very well thought out response but hopefully one that will provoke some debate while I crack on with what I have to get done before I jump on the Piccadilly line to the Emirates about 4pm.
I crack on with what I have to get done
As you posted at 10.26,11.55,12.08,13.00,10.32, and 12.57 today (up to now) then that can’t be much. ;)
I crack on with what I have to get doneAs you posted at 10.26,11.55,12.08,13.00,10.32, and 12.57 today (up to now) then that can’t be much. ;)
:D It wasn’t mate before, to be honest, but now I’ve been asked to go to a meeting at 3pm AND prepare a presentation for it. I’ll leave it until 1:30 to start it; I work better under pressure
Worst thing is, my carefully planned leaving time of 4pm is now under threat.
If you are saying that we need to give him time, just how long do you think that time should be before the club & Bobby cut their losses?I’m not saying “we need to give him time” so i suppose the question isn’t aimed at me but i’ll give you my answer anyway.
I’d give him the rest of his natural working life. Why? Because of what he’s trying to do. I don’t really want another Steve Bruce who couldn’t give a flying f”£k about the club. Martinez is here because he wants to be here.
I read somewhere on another forum/article that the author wished Martinez had been appointed manager while we was in the lower leagues. If he had been with us during our climb then he wouldn’t be showered with the abuse like he is currently.
Paul Jewell could do no wrong in some peoples eyes but some of the football served up in his final year was terrible. But it was tolerated because of what he achieved and rightly so.
Unfortunately, Martinez doesn’t have that kind of respect from half our “support”.
I hope Whelan is true to his word and doesn’t sack the only manager out there that loves this football club.
To be fair, I love the club but I’m pretty certain that I’d be one step down from useless as its manager. If that’s the only condition for offering someone a managers job for life at latics then I’m sure you’ll find upwards of 15,000 other people that would consider themselves equally, if not more so, qualified
With regards to the rest of your comments, to be honest I’d beg to differ. Martinez is here because this current jobs offers him more prestige, more money, more chances of future career progression & a higher football/media profile than his previous job did, so we shouldn’t kid ourselves that he’s here for the love of the club. Bobby often spoke of his love & loyalty towards Swansea City & how you would have to “drag him kicking & screaming” to get him away from there. I didn’t notice much kicking & screaming when he left though did you?
I’m not blaming him coz I’d do the same. After all its a job to him & we’d pretty much al lleave our current jobs if another firm offered us more money & prestige to jump ship, but that’s my point. Its a job to him – nothign mroe & nothing less. He won’t leave/resign now coz he’s on a good number but if he was to have some success with us then he would leave to the first club that came along which offered him more money, more prestige & a bigger transfer budget so lets not kid ourselves otherwise
In that respect he’s no different to Steve BrucePersonally I’m glad Martinez wasn’t appointed whilst we were in the lower leagues coz I doubt we’d have ever got out of them
Martinez is showered with abuse on here because many people can see (or think they can see) him making the same mistakes over & over again & not learning from them. In fact, I’d argue that he’s been given far less stick from the fans than another manager without his previous connections to the club would have had because people want him to succeed & clutch at straws that he’s turning things around. He doesn’t get anywhere near as much stick in the ground as I’ve seen other latics managers get in my time following emIn my eyes Martinez has to earn the “respect” you talk about as manager through his achievements. he doesn’t/shouldn’t be entitled to it purely coz of who he is
Ok. I’ll have a bash at it, TL.I’d give him the rest of this season. If we go down, we go down.
If we stay up and are still in the relegation places-ish this time next year, ie end November, there’s an argument for sacking him then. IF, that is, there is money in place to finance a new man.
There. A very woolly and not very well thought out response but hopefully one that will provoke some debate while I crack on with what I have to get done before I jump on the Piccadilly line to the Emirates about 4pm.
To be honest I don’t think there needs to be any new money in place to finance a new man.
There are manager’s out there who quite simply are better than others and who, given the same players & resources as A.N. Other manager woud do a better job than them
You only have to look over the M61 at Bolton to see proof of that. Owen Coyle almost immediately started producing better results than megson with the same squad
He hasn’t spent oodles of cash either. He’s also got players who looked complete pig swill under the previous manager looking like world beaters now.
Changes in training, changes in tactics, changes in formation can all have just as much effect, if not more at times, than throwing money at a problem.
Similarly Bruce took a matter of weeks to see what the major problems were when he took over from hutchings & had Latics on the up before he was given any money to spendNow I know the obvious question to me now is “well who would you bring in to do that job then?” & the honest answer is that I haven’t got a feckin clue but I think that given the right training, right tactics, formation & style of play to suit the players we have rather than trying to force them into a system that seems alien to most of em a different manager could get far more out of the same group of players than Bobby is managing at present
Oh my god just give Martinez a chance and stop moaning. Sitting there at your keyboard complaining like a child isn’t going to get him to change his tactics and isn’t going to get him sacked either. Just go with it and enjoy the ride. We will see a few losses, but I bet you will see some great wins aswell. Starting tonight at Arsenal!Your last sentence in your post above just shows how clearly inept your perception of Wigan Athletic really is.
To be fair, I love the club but I’m pretty certain that I’d be one step down from useless as its manager. If that’s the only condition for offering someone a managers job for life at latics then I’m sure you’ll find upwards of 15,000 other people that would consider themselves equally, if not more so, qualifiedNo its not the only condition. Giving a young successful lower league manager a chance shine in the premiership being the other condition. How many of the 15,000 (I’d say it was more like 11,000) have that in there CV?
Martinez is here because this current jobs offers him more prestige, more money, more chances of future career progression & a higher football/media profile than his previous job did, so we shouldn’t kid ourselves that he’s here for the love of the club.Answer me this, would he have quit Swansea to go and manage Blackpool/Fulham etc just because they are in the premier league?
Personally I’m glad Martinez wasn’t appointed whilst we were in the lower leagues coz I doubt we’d have ever got out .He was certainly getting Swansea out.
He doesn’t get anywhere near as much stick in the ground as I’ve seen other latics managers get in my time following emI’d disagree. I suppose it depends who sits around you.
No its not the only condition. Giving a young successful lower league manager a chance shine in the premiership being the other condition. How many of the 15,000 (I’d say it was more like 11,000) have that in there CV?.He’s been given a chance to shine & to be honest after 18 months in the job more often than not he’s looked like tarnished brass.
I’m also all for giving a lower league manager with the experience an opportunity to shine in the top flight – I argued at the time however that Bobby didn’t have that experience. He’d had 2 & a bit years at Swansea which IMO was nowhere near enough & I questionned his ability to know what it took for a player to be successful in the top flight when he signed a 30 odd year old lower/Scottish league journeyman as his key centre forward signing & said he’d have no trouble adapting.. Anyone with any knowledge of seeing good lower league players flounder in the top flight knew Scotland wouldn’t be a success & so it was provedAnswer me this, would he have quit Swansea to go and manage Blackpool/Fulham etc just because they are in the premier league?Would he have quite Swansea to go to a newly promoted Blackpool? No coz chances are, like everyone else he’d have thought they’d come straight back down & seeing as how his Swansea side were gonna be seen as promotion challengers he’d have thought that 12 months down the line he’d have more chance of being in the top flight with Swansea than he would with Blackpool
Would he have left Swansea to go to Fulham – a club bankrolled by one of the richest men in Britain, who’d reached 7th the year before & who were in the Europa league? Of course he would – he’d have been there like a shot. Just like he’d have jumped ship to go to any other established top flight club (of any size). I think its absurd to think otherwiseHe was certainly getting Swansea out.That admittedly is the weak point in my argument as he had done a successful job, but I can no more prove that he would have tread water (or worse) if he’d stayed than you can prove he’d have got them up to the top flight
I’d disagree. I suppose it depends who sits around you.In my time at Latics I’ve seen Hamilton, Swain, Deehan & Benson get all manner of sustained stick from the crowd. Yes Bobby gets some but its isolated complaints about his tactics, formations or substitutions – there’s certainly nothing along the lines of the “Hamilton Out” chants I used to enjoy many moons ago
I do know that if any other manager we’ve had in the last 23 years had made the same mistakes as Bobby, over & over & over again the “Bobby Out” chants would be bringing the roof down but as you so clearly demonstrate there is a “Yeah but he loves the club” train of thought that prevents most of us doing that
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