martinez

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  • This topic has 30 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by JaytJayt.
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  • #64755
    jamie-sonjamie-son
    Player

      If this poll had been done nov-dec, then more than likely I would’ve voted anti. Now with the team improving so much we’ve got to stick with him. Pro for me.
      ;)

      #64756
      jrfatfanjrfatfan
      Player

        It’s a bit like when anyone starts a new job I’ve done it misell quite a few times.
        You sit there at your desk on the first day not knowing the people, the companies policies, the number to get an outside phoneline, where the post room is, what the code is to the photocopier, the name of the director’s secretary even though you’ve been introduced just a few hours earlier, etc. etc. etc.
        You are getting paid full whack from day one to do your job and yet you feel like a spare thingy at a wedding for what seems like years.

        If everyone was sacked because after a few months they weren’t performing at 100%, there would be nobody in jobs. :teasing-lurk:

        From Matlock to ManU
        What a journey!

        #64766
        area51AREA51
        Player

          I am pro Martinez. I like his black rain mac, his brown shoes. The fact he has to reposition the water bottles in the technical area before the game starts.
          I like the way he presents us to the media, he isn’t a hot head like Jewell, looking for constant scapegoats like the fans when things don’t go our way. I like the fact that he is looking at young footballers to come in, rather than aging rock stars who have had their day. Martinez is a Wigan legend let’s not forget that. What he is doing, he believes he is doing for the good of Wigan Athletic. There are no hidden agenda’s with this guy. That’s why I am pro Martinez.
          I’m not bothered that we havent won the league this season; I’m not to fussed we missed out on champions league. I’m quite happy turning up watching my Wigan play on a Saturday regardless. That makes me happy and that’s why I pay my money season after season. All these fans moaning about why we’re not challenging for Europe or we’re playing poor. Just have a think about your first ever game and why you actually come along to match day. You might just surprise yourself.
          Well, that went on a bit longer than I planned.
          You get my drift though, hopefully.

          #64768

          Area people are more bothered about not challenging for anything. We play weakened sides in the cups and get beat. We don’t have any aspirations to move up the table because Whelan won’t sanction the funds required although he keeps the transfer fees and sky revenue every year. To be honest Whelan is not bothered if we stay or go, That is the only reason he is sticking with Martinez. He can’t be bothered any more, If we stay up he gets sky revenue again, If we go down he get’s parachute payments and sells our players. If we go down i guarantee come August he will say he has had enough, After taking all the assets with him and everyone will say how brilliant he is e.t.c after doing his famous leeching act.

          #64769
          Difficult one this – I almost wrote a whole article on the subject for JayT to publish on the forum in response to the other thread but got side-tracked.

          For me, it’s not quite so black or white, dark or light as simply being pro- or anti-Martinez. What exactly does that mean?

          If being anti means you think he’s not good enough to manage our team and pro is the opposite, how exactly do you measure it? Maybe relegation would be the tipping point to make you anti, or for those who think we should be doing better than just premier league survival, not being in the top 10 might be the trigger, for example. For others, they are anti, I guess, simply because they don’t like the style of play that he favours.

          For me, when I say that I am pro-Martinez, it goes beyond league position and winning football matches. I happen to like the way he tries to play football, though I appreciate that others don’t. It frustrates the life out of me at times when he refuses to budge from his Plan A, but I still like what Plan A is trying to achieve. I get that it might ultimately end in relegation this season but so what? It doesn’t make me an idiot for thinking that way, anymore than it means that the people who insist that playing 442 will solve all our ills are idiots.

          I also like the fact that his time as manager of the team is coinciding with a period in which the club’s management seems to be trying to ensure the long-term financial stability of the club by not paying daft transfer fees and salaries across the board. He hasn’t thrown his toys out of the pram on this issue which some might say makes him a “yes” man; I prefer to think that it makes him someone who has bought into the long-term view of WAFC and not someone who is just looking to use it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

          I don’t know whether Martinez will ever go on to become a great coach, but I am happy that he is being given the opportunity to try to learn and make his way at our club. Paul Ince, for one I reckon, would have given his eye teeth for the same amount of patience to have been shown to him at Blackburn.

          When TyldesleyLatic says on the other thread that the ‘light’ side must hold their hands up and say Martinez isn’t good enough if we get relegated, I disagree. It all depends on the answer to the question: “good enough, for what”?

          As my granny used to say: “That’ll be 50 quid, Wayne”. :shock: She also used to say: “It would make for a very boring world if we all thought the same way”

          Yours in sport
          CJG

          Griff – I should point out that I did not say that the lightside should hold their hands up & say Martinez isn’t good enough if we get relegated
          What I actually said was that if we get relegated & if we continue to struggle next season & if Martinez is released or his contract isn’t renewed then (by the same token as jrfatfan said the darkside must all say well done to bobby if we stay up) then the lightside must hold their hands up & say he just wasn’t good enough
          By saying that I am in effect acknowledging that relegation this season isn’t necessarily an accurate marker that he isn’t good enough long term. It will have meant that he’s failed in his goal this season but many clubs have taken 1 step back to then go 2 steps forward
          Bobby himself however in the most recent fanzine interview said that once we’ve got through this season then he “promises” us the club will not look back. If it does then IMO he needs to fall on his own sword

          I actually agree with the rest of your post however that its not as simple as being pro or anti martinez & this poll isn’t worded how I would have worded it when trying to see whether people think Bobby is up to the job long term or not.
          If people are going to use the terms pro or anti Martinez then I am neither. I want him to succeed coz I liked him as a player here & I do think he has a genuine passion for the club (though that’s not to say that i don’t think he’d be offski if a better offer came along like some on here think) BUT over what I’ve seen for the last 2 seasons I don’t think that he’s good enough.
          The style of football he tries to play is irrelevant to me – I like up & at em, full blooded, get stuck in there football but I’d accept owt at Latics if it was successful. Where I don’t think he’s good enough is his refusal to see that there is possibly more than one way to skin a cat & an inability to learn from his mistakes – or if he does seem to learn then it takes a bloody long time for it to sink in
          Griff – you see that as frustrating but forgivable coz you like what plan A is trying to achieve. I call it arrogance, pig headedness & could ultimately be responsible for seeing the club relegated for only the 2nd time in its history. I know that’s not the be all & end all and the majority of us will still support Latics no matter what division they’re in but a) I don’t want to see my club fail & b) I have no confidence from what I’ve seen of Bobby that he is the right man to get the first team progressing again

          #64771
          Area people are more bothered about not challenging for anything. We play weakened sides in the cups and get beat. We don’t have any aspirations to move up the table because Whelan won’t sanction the funds required although he keeps the transfer fees and sky revenue every year. To be honest Whelan is not bothered if we stay or go, That is the only reason he is sticking with Martinez. He can’t be bothered any more, If we stay up he gets sky revenue again, If we go down he get’s parachute payments and sells our players. If we go down i guarantee come August he will say he has had enough, After taking all the assets with him and everyone will say how brilliant he is e.t.c after doing his famous leeching act.

          You really do astound me. Are you honestly still convinced that Dave Whelan keeps all the Sky money and transfer fees? If so, does the whole football club operate on £1M per season sponsorship and an average attendance of 17k every fortnight?

          #64774
          bickymonbickymon
          Player

            :text-goodpost: yosser
            the lightside are being mind controlled by the evil emperor whelan
            :teasing-blah: :teasing-blah: :teasing-blah: :teasing-blah: :teasing-blah: :teasing-blah:

            #64779

            Hello bicky. I see DW has released your shackles and allowed you out again.

            #64895
            Anonymous

              Right some very good points made here but I ultimately have chosen anti…although that’s a bit harsh, more undecided but leading more towards not in favour.

              Everyone will have different opinions and arguements on the situation, I for one have agreed with a lot of the pro points made previously there however my points against would be as follows;

              I like the approach Martinez brings and the style of football he tries to play however you have to realise your limitations and you got to realise that maybe your squad aren’t quite there yet to play this type of football. We’ve seen it a few times this season where our back 4 have been trying to play it around in the backs and it ended up getting us into trouble. We can just be so casual sometimes, but for the back 4 we have we should be encouraging them to get good timely challenges in, play the simple ball to your midfielders, keep focus and get the clearances. They should not be putting themselves under pressure under silly mistakes and I just feel its due to the style of football we are trying to play and our players just simply ain’t to that style yet.

              My next point is, for those of you saying about him cutting costs in the business I have to say yes he has, BUT! in doing so he has made some woeful decisions that have cost us big to. There have been a few poor purchases made, Di Santo and Boselli to name a few and they have cost the club big in my opinion. To be honest i’d sooner pay a proven good player in the premier league a bit more in wages than going paying 7 or 8 million on players that haven’t really brought any thing this season. Just my opinion though.

              My next point is, sometimes I just feel he makes the wrong decisions tactically. We’ve knocked out 15 or so draws this season which is a decent return but the question we all keep asking ourselves why we can’t close a team out after going 1-0 up or so. My view of it is this; As martinez is persistent in playing his style of football, he goes for the 4-5-1 formation. Thats a massive ask of the lone striker then and it has shown in our poor return in goals this season. You need goals to win a game! Its no good purchasing all these strikers such as Boselli, such as Di Santo, such as Sammon if your not going to play them for a full 90 minutes at some stage with a different formation. In my opinion I think Sammon is the perfect man to work alongside Hugo. He can hold up the ball and support well and get into dangerous positions, plus he’s an aerial threat, something we don’t have!! But trying to win games purely from midfield is not always gonna work and I think it has shown this season. But Martinez has not really mixed the formation once, even when he could have afforded to and thats a downfall.

              I also think his substitutions throughout the season have been very poor. It was nearly the same thing every weekend at once stage. Stam on at 65 mins, Di Santo at 76 mins and Moses on at 89 mins or so. The only real impact sub there being moses and at that stage it was way to late in the game. I like Di Santo, i think he’s got a good work rate and he tries so hard but god love him he just hasn’t got the strikers touch, he’s just not clinical enough. When we are trailing in a game, I’d sooner look to bring a player like Sammon who has scored 18 goals in the SPL, in order to try get the goals back rather than Di Santo who’s got what 1 in 2 years?Its just not good enough. I find that sometimes Martinez is just a bit fearless to change the 5 man midfield and maybe he’s right cause our back 4 are dodgy and maybe he see’s that but to be honest that’s his fault for not bringing in a solid centre defender or something.

              I agree with the comments made from people about him representing us well with the media and all but to be honest mid season onwards I have become sick of hearing the same things over and over…the players showed good spirit, he’s extremely proud and they luck didn’t go our way. Fair enough sometimes luck just goes against ya and I’m all for encouraging and supporting the players after a loss, but in business which is ripen in sports…you get no where by being to nice. You have to show a certain amount of discipline and be the first to say to the players its not good enough and tackle them on the issue. You got to tell your players in a manner where theyl sit up and listen to you that you fecked up and this is why…and explain to them is should not happen again!If players are constantly backed in all their performances then a certain element of “its no big deal” hits in to them.

              I appreciate he’s a young manager and he’s learning and he’s trying to play the right football, but look at the expense? We are in the relegation zone! I believe we can get ourselves out of it and stay up cause I believe in the players and their determination to stay up. However what if we get relegated and i’ve thought about this. Ok our young manager trying to get us to play this style of football ended up getting the team relegated, we’l come good cause were playing the right approach soccer and we’l be back up next season? Wrong! The expense of getting relegated is massive: You lose supporters, sales, finance, facilities need to be cut back so youth system etc… suffer, players leave and chairmen think of selling the club (as Whelan had already expressed interest earlier in the year). Our players are struggling and taking a while to adapt to this style of football now…it’l be just worse in the championship with those things looming over us.

              I’ll back my team always regardless of what division we are in. Its a massive achievement for a team like Wigan to be in the premier league. I do like Martinez and the approach he brings however I just don’t think its the right time and the right team. He’s a learning manager but it could be at the clubs expense.

              My long opinion on it all anyway.

              #64899
              jamie-sonjamie-son
              Player

                Is that last post VAT in disguise?
                :think: :think:

                #64902
                Anonymous
                  Is that last post VAT in disguise?
                  :think: :think:

                  :roll: :roll: :roll:

                  #64906
                  Anonymous

                    ahm I don’t no what or who VAT is?

                    Look i’ve just given my opinion, if you don’t like it, its fine.everyone has different views and opinions.

                    #64911

                    If I had the time/keyboard/sobriety I’d pull it to pieces, Rich.

                    But I really can’t be arsed. It’s old hat, we’ve been having the same arguments for yonks and it’s not your fault your new.

                    #64912
                    Anonymous

                      I know mate,sorry to bring it all back just saying what i think.not looking to start anything like cause everyone has own opinions and i’ll respect them.

                      enjoy your drunkeness!! :D

                      #64918

                      Area people are more bothered about not challenging for anything. We play weakened sides in the cups and get beat. We don’t have any aspirations to move up the table because Whelan won’t sanction the funds required although he keeps the transfer fees and sky revenue every year. To be honest Whelan is not bothered if we stay or go, That is the only reason he is sticking with Martinez. He can’t be bothered any more, If we stay up he gets sky revenue again, If we go down he get’s parachute payments and sells our players. If we go down i guarantee come August he will say he has had enough, After taking all the assets with him and everyone will say how brilliant he is e.t.c after doing his famous leeching act.

                      You really do astound me. Are you honestly still convinced that Dave Whelan keeps all the Sky money and transfer fees? If so, does the whole football club operate on £1M per season sponsorship and an average attendance of 17k every fortnight?[/quote]

                      THAT IS NOT WHAT I WROTE.

                      One of the mods must have bum raped me and they have changed around everything i actually said. Please pay no attention to that post, Not my words.

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                    Forums Latics Crazy Forum martinez