Old style managers and the men with iPads

Agreed. Far too much reliance on sports science these days. Yes it is a help but we shouldn’t be relying on it.

And Cookie is 100% still a red lol

It’s the way most managers manage players these days based on sports science. Rarely do you see a player without the small hump/monitor sticking up between the shoulder blades. Some managers rely far too much and use them as a dictator rather than an indicator. Managers forget that adrenalin can keep you going and you can push through it or take a breather when needed.

I suppose if a players heart rate is through the roof and yards covered and speed is tapering off throughout the game then no matter how much as a player you “want to” the body wont let you and the players showing it in his body language then yes that’s the time to make the change. Some players body genetics have far better engines than others, there’s a lot of factors.

Then there’s a Vengers of the world who would constantly drag Sanchez off as soon as his stats were showing signs of fatigue even though the player at that time could run till the cows come home.

Managers and coaches alike have to be very careful of muscle injuries which can be far worse than most other injuries and leave a long and lasting affect on a players fitness.

I mean, we don’t know if a player has had a tight hamstring in training and his stats show while in a game he’s over trying then the manager ignores the stats and before you know what, booosh hamstrings gone 6-8 weeks out. Personally I feel this is how Powell is managed at Wigan, everything based on stats due to muscle related injuries just ready and waiting to happen. I feel if he had of moved clubs last summer for the reported £8-£10 million the new club would expect a better output return in stats yards minutes runs tackles hence the reason why he was happy to stay then leave for nothing and the club listened to the player wanting to stop at Wigan but without commiting signing a new contract ? that still beggars belief. A signature would not have stopped him from leaving he could still go but we get some kind of return on the player.

If your trying to compare the players of Shankly’s day to those of Guardiola’s modern day player then engine wise Shankly’s men would cardiac arrest just the same as Alan Well’s would only see Usain Bolts backside as he leaves him for dead in his blocks open mouthed. The physicality of a modern day players far exceeds any player of the 60 and 70’s.

Sport science is part and parcel of a game whether people like it or not simply because a club are trying to maximise a players output while safeguarding their investment from any muscle related long term injury.

Last Night Jacobs for me covered an awful lot of grass and was the only one who actually picked it up and took players on which showed in the goal and the free kicks he won us by been that bit more direct, no world beater just abit more forward thinking.

What we needed was an injection of pace but there was no one on the bench to offer us that. I’m no member of the McManaman fan club but someone of a similar ilk might have put Derby more on the back foot and won us a few more free kicks in and around the danger areas simply because Derby were prone to leaving a foot in.

I’d disagree with that & I’ve heard & seen a lot of pro’s from that era say that they couldn’t last in today’s game if they had the same prep methods & away from the club fitness.
Don’t get me wrong if Colin bell was playing now he’d be training as a pro does today & would look just as good but fitness wise & burst of speed wise they wouldn’t be at the level of today’s players based on yesterday’s methods. Skill wise yes but not fitness wise

It’s similar to top sprinters – Jesse Owens was the best of his era but his times aren’t close to Usain Bolt coz training & fitness methods have moved on so much (and their running shoes & the track itself).

I’d agree with the rest of what you say though. I don;t have a problem with wing backs but its a very specialist position. Martinez wanted to play it for ages by all accounts before he finally brought it in at Latics & that only really came when he signed Beausejour who had it mastered.
Manager’s need to realise that coz a full back is quite good going forward doesn’t make him a wing back & vice versa with wingers. Play the best system to suit the players at your disposal

Then was then, now is now. As pointed out, Colin Bell might be a match for the modern day player if he lived and trained like today’s modern footballer.
If you were to just put him up against today’s players eating and drinking as a 60′- 70’s player he’d be throwing up a pan er lobbies for half time.
I do agree though, managers do over pamper certain players. But put it this way, would a fit Fox or Pilkington (both injured for a 2nd time in a matter of weeks) outrun and outwork a fit Reece James ? There’s a simple answer to that equation

The only thing I’d say there, Dave, is that from the 20s no-one played 2-3-5. There was a change in the offside rule then that meant teams needed to put 3 at the back, so the centre-half #5 became a centre-back stopper (Ron Yeats, Brian Labone, Jack Charlton).

Until Ramsey changed things, in England at least, the #7 and #11 wingers had free rein down the flanks (Stanley Matthews, Peter Thompson et al), while “up front” you had the big centre forward, supported by the inside forwards who operated alongside or slightly behind the big powerful #9, Nat Lofthouse, Dixie Dean and our own Joe Royle being a prime examples.

The formation was called WM, effectively 3-2-2-3, although in modern parlance it may even have been more a 3-2-2-2-1 with the second 2 (the wingers) far more fluid than we see today, and the thrid “2” often sitting alongside the #9.

If you play out a pure 2-3-5 (even though that’s how programmes printed teams) then you would hit problems, but a deeper midfield of WM and the fluidity wouldn’t be so easily over-run.[/quote]

But surely what vat is saying applies to todays game as well. How many goals have we conceded from balls coming in from the flanks because our wing/full backs are hopelessly out of position. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise that with the quality of player we can recruit at Wigan you are always better keeping it simple and go with a back four and good old fashioned full backs.

Absolutely gl, and the likes of Ashley Cole who could play the wing back role superbly are few and far between. I once watched Liverpool play at Coventry and as soon as Alan Hansen went into Cov,s half Jan Molby as if by telepathy slotted in at centre half. It was beautiful to watch but these were great players who had the skill nowadays we expect bang average journeymen players to play these multi roles.