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I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !
Bang on goodpost
I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !It doesnt happen often but you have spoken a bit of sense there phillipo :P
And I for one am quite content with all of that tbh.
I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !Fair enough Fil.
The only thing I’ll pick you up on is “RM’s cup philosophy”. Bob’s cup philosophy is that in the earlier rounds against lower league teams & weakened Prem teams he backs his fringe players plus the odd first teamer to beat them. And this season he’s been proved right. Even against Bradford 9 times out of 10 that performance would have been good enough to win easily.
I dare say if we’d got to the quarter finals then he’d have seen a totally different side with more first teamers than fringe players. I don’t think he’s given up on the cups he just has to do it with probably the smallest squad in the Prem and in a way that doesn’t affect the main priority – the league position.
I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !And finally, the penny droppeth! ;)
I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !I’m not sure about that. Think back to the championship days and leagues 1 and 2, who would have thought getting in the prem was possible?.
We have proved that on our day with the right decisions and a bit of luck we can beat any team in the EPL, its just consistency that we need. This comes with keeping a team together, only losing 1 or 2 in the transfer window each year.
I honestly feel that this team is capable of a top 10 finish this season, the likes of Sunderland, Fulham, Villa and West Brom will be setting their sites at this and possibly Europa league. Are they genuinely any better than us?
My next milestone is getting into Europe, be it a top 6/7 finish or the cup final route. OK it may take a few years but it is possible. Fighting it out for a champions league place may be out of our reach for the reasons Filmoss has stated, but the next best thing will certainly be on Whelan’s and Martinez’s radar over the next 3-5 years. B) goodpost
From Matlock to ManU
What a journey!I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !
I’m not sure about that. Think back to the championship days and leagues 1 and 2, who would have thought getting in the prem was possible?.
We have proved that on our day with the right decisions and a bit of luck we can beat any team in the EPL, its just consistency that we need. This comes with keeping a team together, only losing 1 or 2 in the transfer window each year.
I honestly feel that this team is capable of a top 10 finish this season, the likes of Sunderland, Fulham, Villa and West Brom will be setting their sites at this and possibly Europa league. Are they genuinely any better than us?
My next milestone is getting into Europe, be it a top 6/7 finish or the cup final route. OK it may take a few years but it is possible. Fighting it out for a champions league place may be out of our reach for the reasons Filmoss has stated, but the next best thing will certainly be on Whelan’s and Martinez’s radar over the next 3-5 years. B) goodpost[/quote]
Under Dave Whelan we always had the financial backing to take our pick of the best available players outside the PL.
The financial gap between the championship and PL can only be described as 2 seperate dimensions.
Take a look at one of the biggest prospects in the Championship at this moment in Wilfred Zaha.
The Palace fan I work with reckons he is on 3-4K a week tops :blink:
Anyway the point im trying to make is outside the premier league we have the financial power to sign whoever we want.
Inside the PL we are bottom of the financial willy waving league and by some considerable distance!!! Look at QPR … lower attendance than us yet they can pay 70K to the likes of Barton and Ji Sung Park etc.
Thus the getting to the PL was always a more realistic prospect than actually doing anything other than scraping for survival each year.
This thread has got me thinking (other than what a moaning bunch of supporters we have) about where we’ve been to where we are now.
If you take our normal starting 11 (maybe include Alcaraz instead of Ramis or whatever), who would you replace in January if you were manager – a like for like swap? Maybe even which Premier league era former player would you replace them with? I mean like for like, not replacing Beasejour & Boyce with N’zogbia & Valencia for example!
Even though things don’t always go our way, I think the team has a great balance to it and we have been majorly unlucky on several occasions (Sunderland for example).
If we played Tuesday’s game 99 more times with the same players, we would probably win comfortably. These things happen.
I may be berated for blindly following Martinez, but I honestly believe we will come good
Don’t forget spending tens of millions of pounds on players won’t guarantee they will improve your team forthright. There are plenty of examples where players have just not hacked it in the EPL for whatever reason. I’ll give you our very own Mauro Bosselli as an example [Although I still think given a run he may come good].
What about Andy Carroll, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson and Stuart Downing at Liverpool. Our own Zog at Villa. SWP, the thug and Cisse at QPR, I remember someone on here bleating on about QPR spending loads on players in the window whilst we were spending zilch. Check the league tables last season and this and look were QPR finished and were they are now.
You can give these players 70 plus grand a week it doesn’t mean they will deliver week in week out.Money [transfer fee and wages] does have some influence on the quality of team you can assemble, but it doesn’t guarantee success. In some instances it causes unrest in a squad, as all 20 odd players believe they should be in the starting 11.
I believe Bobby and big Dave are running a very steady and value for money ship. We don’t have many, if any, prima donas who think they should be playing for Barcelona and warrant 100k p/w wages. We are not paying out daft wages, yet we are still competing with the best.
What a great position to be in hey, every time we beat a QPR or a Sunderland we are doing it with a team costing a fraction of theirs, it must make their managers squirm with envy.
I honestly think we are in good hands and everything about the club is bang on, from transfer policy, wage structure to youth development. keep doing what your doing Bobby and Dave and see were it takes us. goodpostFrom Matlock to ManU
What a journey!I personally think we have gone as far as we are going to go. We are always going to be struggling in the top flight and will always lose more than we win. Now if we continue to cause the odd upset then that will balance up the odd debacle and so therefore we keep watching ! We will always have to sell our best players and will always have to look for bargain buys just to survive in the Prem. It’s a pity RM’s domestic cup philosophy is what it is because a good cup run is always good for morale and that is what is needed at WAFC in my opinion. If we don’t get the odd upper like that then we have to be content with pretty much the same year in year out ! Win 1 draw 1 lose 3 with the odd upset thrown in now and again we obtain survival….Just ! That is the way it will always be I’m afraid !
And finally, the penny droppeth! ;)[/quote]
But the cup will never runneth over ! ;)
Despite my criticisms of him over the last 3 & a bit years & disagreeing with some of his selections, tactics, formations & such like from time to time (or all the time), personally I don’t think that there is any doubt that Bobby deserves to be in charge of our football club.
Whether the club has “progressed” since Bruce left is open to debate & depends on how you measure progress, the yard sticks you use & where on that measurement you think we were back in May 2009.I won’t always agree with everything he does & I don’t think the sun shines out of his backside but I’m more than happy to carry on with him at the helm and pretty much agree with filmoss about our level – not saying we can’t achieve the odd top half finish but they will be one offs.
And I do wish that he’d take the cups more seriously – they don’t always have to be at the expense of league standings
And there we go…..thanks everyone for having a decent debate. Most of you took my original post as it was intended, which was to simply start a SENSIBLE debate as to how the club is doing under Martinez’s stewardship.
I think the majority (I’d say as much as 90%, if not more) are BEHIND Roberto, and what he is doing at the club. There were some great points made about him working to financial constrictions, the conclusion being that any other manager would have the same constrictions, so we are better off with Roberto, a guy with genuine affection and love for the club, who is articulate and lets be honest, a bloody decent bloke in the process.
Thanks once again for a very sensible debate, and one which didn’t disintigrate into falling out and baiting each other. goodpost
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