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”he had 3 months of transfer window?
jesus christ lad!! he should have turned it around in that time shouldn’t he!
3 months of a window in relation to players 4 – 5 yr contracts is nothing.
you cannot ship out all the rubbish we have in one window and bring in a whole new squad.
I don’t think your grasping my point”I know exactly the point you are making area51 – I just disagree with it
When trying to compare Bruce & Bobby – in one (shorter) transfer window (and after less time in the job) Steve Bruce had turned around a bloody awful & clueless side into one that was pretty good & he was lumbered with a lot of Hutching’s & Jewell’s $h!te. IMO Bobby has made the side worse than it was last season although that is a matterof personal opinion
You can also compare the players who worked under Bruce & who are still here under Bobby. With the possible exception of N’Zogbia they are all (IMO) playing worse under Bobby than they did under Bruce & whilst the players themselves have to shoulder some of that blame so does the manager
You also made the point that we couldn’t possibly judge Bobby coz he hasn’t been in the job long enough. He’s been in post for over 7 months now. Most decent companies will give a new employee a 6 month trial period & its a fairly dcent time frame to form an opinion about a football manager’s ability.
I am not saying sack him by any means but there are alot of things about Latics on the football field that need improving that can’t all be blamed on inheriting some rubbish squad players from previous managers or only having 3 months of a transfer window in which to sign & release players
So the point I was making was that it is perfectly possible to judge Bobby on the season so far & IMO that judgement is could be doing alot better
i don’t think you’re grasping my point!!! I personally, can’t wait to see Caldwell. And I’m looking forward to seeing McCarthy prosper as well. And we may well sign some more players in this next week!
Go on then, who else do you want to have the job?
Hughes? Curbishley? Keegan? Graham Barrow? (Joke!)
I’ve decided that I will only judge Roberto Martinez on the rest of this season, and what happens in the summer. Start off next season bad, and he’ll be getting some stick. But until then, I’m supporting him. Let’s face it, it was such a drawn out process when he came in, with Swansea wanting compensation, etc, it prevented him getting on with things. Then, on the eve of the season, his midfield Cattermole revealed that he had been ‘lured’ to the ‘dark side’.
The neat set up I witnessed at PNE in that friendly, where Cattermole was the centre of the team, was blown apart.And it is extra special to know that we have a manager with a genuine affection for our club. To Bruce, it was just another job on his way up the ladder. True, if a big club ever came in for Roberto, he’d probably go. But if that happens, then perhaps it will be because Wigan Athletic have had some degree of success under his management.
There’s nobody better for the job. But there are plenty worse.
Ignoring the way that Bruce jumped ship (although I can’t blame him & if you think Bobby will do any less if a “bigger” club comes calling then you are living in cloud cuckoo land) & basing my decision solely on the tactics & consistant performances then its Steve Bruce hands down for me – so far.
For all you saying look at the mess Bobby inherited a) as someone else has pointed out I don’t think it was that much of a mess & b) look at the pile of chaotic situation Bruce inherited.
We hadn’t won in god knows how long, had no recognised left back & he turned players who were playing poorly before he came Bramble – in fact the whole back four, Kirkland, Valencia etc. into looking twice as good within weeks.
Within months Bobby has turned those players who were here under Bruce & playing well – Bramble, Boyce, Melchiot, Kirkland etc.. into (at times) as much use as a chocolate fire guardare these the same tactics that never saw us win in 9 games (may be wrong saying 9 correction if i am) and just about scrape a win against a very poor pompey side at the end of last season.And hes doing such a good job up at sunderland,they were 11pts clear of us at 1 stage this season i think its 2 now
I actually fell asleep during one of Bruce’s games. Seriously. I wasn’t even drunk or anything. I was bored shyteless. That had never happened before.
He was tapped up months before the end of season, as well. All those comments of “I have been unable to motivate the players” was a load of rubbish. What manager comes out and says that? If you can’t motivate your players, it’s time to leave. He was tapped up that day we beat Sunderland at their place, when NZogbia scored. Sure of it.
His decision will come back to haunt him, I reckon.
Does anybody else think he was just taking the p*ss by playing Mido? He has to be the most god-awful, excuse of a lazy bas*ard I have ever seen. Seen more movement in a tramps vest.
I definitly feel Bruce ‘cheated’ us out of a third of a season. Him and Black were packed and ready to go, ars*oles.
Roberto, simple.
Bruce did OK whilst he was manager here, he kept us up which is what he was asked to do + in the 1st half of the 2nd season we were doing great but after January we were awful, that is the gaffers fault no matter what anybody says. He fell out with some of the players and it would seem he lost the dressing room coming up to the end of last season.
After the Blackburn game at Ewood (lost 3-0) I spoke to my dad and my brother and we were all in agreement Bruce is a fantastic manager when it comes to avoiding relegation, he gets his team to battle for points which in return keep a team from going down. We also agreed that it was time for him to pack his bags and for us as a club to take a step forward. I said we should get Roberto in as he’s wigan through and through and that’s exactly what happened.
So far, it’s been a bit of a roller-coaster ride BUT as people on here have pointed out he hasn’t had the time as yet and is still stuck with some of Bruce’s poor signings and players dating back to Jewell/Hutchings.
What Roberto has done is beaten a top 4 side in Chelsea whilst allowing his team to get humiliated at Spurs. He’s also seen his side dominate Villa at their home ground then get beat at home to a Wolves side which didn’t have half the quality the Villa side had but then go to Molyneux and win 2-0 without ever looking like losing.
Roberto brings a new style of tactic, football and passing. When it goes right (Villa, Chelsea, Wolves, etc) we win and it’s usually quite comfortably but when it goes wrong (Arsenal, Utd, Spurs) then we lose usually quite heavily. It is all about consistency and nobody knows that better than Roberto.
His aim at the start of the season would have been to do as best he could on a tight budjet using mainly the players he had been left with up until now (january) when he can offload and bring in players. Roberto will keep us up this season, we may even finish in the top half with a bit of consistency BUT what I can guarantee is that in the long run this guy is what Wigan Athletic needs and we will benefit from taking the risk and bringing in a true Wigan Athletic fan and legend.
“Go on then, who else do you want to have the job?”
Can you please point out where I said I wanted Bobby to be sacked or that I wanted someone else to have the job
I/we were asked on what we have seen so far who was the better manager at latics & for me it was BruceI actually agree he needs to be given at least a season to prove himself. I’ve seen enough sparks to think we are capable of somet better but they are just sparks & for me he needs to do much better coz his “system” fails far more than it works – so far
“are these the same tactics that never saw us win in 9 games (may be wrong saying 9 correction if i am) and just about scrape a win against a very poor pompey side at the end of last season”
I am not disputing that at the back end of last season under Bruce the results weren’t up to scratch but he had the best bits of his team sold out from under him when we were pushing from a European spot & a chairman announce to the world that our only ambition was to stay up.
Aside from the fact that vital members of the team were flogged & which meant their replacements had to hit the ground running in mid-season as opposed to having a pre-season to prepare. If people are saying that some of Bobby’s players have needed time to adjust the same can be said of Bruce’sNot only that but IMO the way Whelan acted in January of last year with regards to player sales & all our player’s have a price announcements knocked the stuffing out of Bruce. he had a team genuinely challenging for Europe & was told by Whelan “We’re in this league to survive. We’re now safe so start planning for next season now. regardless of whether you want them to stay you are gonna have to sell players now to raise money for next season’s survival bid(as he stated on more than one occasion with Heskey – we would be mad to let him leave in January even if it means losing him for nothing in the summer).
If I was building somet good at work & my boss told me to flog it or knock it down & start again I would be de-motivated tooAs for using the last part of the season as an example of how bad Bruce was. In the last 20 games Latics conceded 27 goals. In the first 20 of this season we have conceded 44 goals. Last season we wone 2 of our last 9 games. This season we have won 2 of our last 9 games.
who are the good signings martinez has made ?scotland and gomez are useless – sinclair is that good he never plays him,amaya never seen and reports now that he will be offered for another chump from swansea – henry was already a done deal ,time will tell how good the other 2 mccarthy and diame turn out so thats 2 that may or may not turn out to be good signings.
not a good record so far
Do you watch wigan? You have got Thomas’ first name wrong. How
can time tell how good Diame is when you’re already judging Gomez as crap, Diame plays every game when fit, what your saying doesn’t make any sense. Maybe he hasn’t made lots of good signings but Diame’s good enoughwho are the good signings martinez has made ?
scotland and gomez are useless – sinclair is that good he never plays him,amaya never seen and reports now that he will be offered for another chump from swansea – henry was already a done deal ,time will tell how good the other 2 mccarthy and diame turn out so thats 2 that may or may not turn out to be good signings.
not a good record so far
Do you watch wigan? You have got Thomas’ first name wrong. How
can time tell how good Diame is when you’re already judging Gomez as rubbish, Diame plays every game when fit, what your saying doesn’t make any sense. Maybe he hasn’t made lots of good signings but Diame’s good enough[/quote]Yeah, come on Loudmouth – explain yourself, dipsh*t ;)
who are the good signings martinez has made ?
scotland and gomez are useless – sinclair is that good he never plays him,amaya never seen and reports now that he will be offered for another chump from swansea – henry was already a done deal ,time will tell how good the other 2 mccarthy and diame turn out so thats 2 that may or may not turn out to be good signings.
not a good record so far
Do you watch wigan? You have got Thomas’ first name wrong. How
can time tell how good Diame is when you’re already judging Gomez as rubbish, Diame plays every game when fit, what your saying doesn’t make any sense. Maybe he hasn’t made lots of good signings but Diame’s good enough[/quote][/size][/i]Yeah, come on Loudmouth – explain yourself, dipsh*t ;) [/quote]
you being sarcastic or are you actually agreeing that, for once I am right, and that he is judging Gomez and not putting a judgement on Diame even though Gomez plays less.
Yeah, come on Loudmouth – explain yourself, dipsh*t ;)
you being sarcastic or are you actually agreeing that, for once I am right, and that he is judging Gomez and not putting a judgement on Diame even though Gomez plays less.[/quote]
Err, have a guess, dipshyt. :roll:
Yeah, come on Loudmouth – explain yourself, dipsh*t ;)
you being sarcastic or are you actually agreeing that, for once I am right, and that he is judging Gomez and not putting a judgement on Diame even though Gomez plays less.[/quote][/size][/i]
Err, have a guess, dipshyt. :roll: [/quote]
Ok but I am right in what I am saying. I was just going to tell you that I actually thought your post on the other thread was funny then :)
Ok but I am right in what I am saying.Wouldn’t know. Just saw you engaging Mr Loudmouth and sensed fireworks. Didn’t bother to read what you ACTUALLY said.
I was just going to tell you that I actually thought your post on the other thread was funny then :)Stop crawling.
i will try to explain myself
out of the signings that arrived at wigan in the summer,henry thomas was already a done deal so he isnt one of martinez’s and is irrelevent in this debate
SCOTLAND and GOMEZ are useless,
amaya and sinclair are that good he never plays either, and the rumour mill says that we will use amaya as a trade in for another sub standard championship signing,that leaves mccarthy and diame,
now these may or may not turn out to be good signings as i said before,i cant make a judgement about mccarthy as i have only seen him live for 20 mins v manure,but he is another speculative buy just as watson was with bruce,good young prospect with a good pedigree and goal scoring record in another league – but it now seems that watson may not be up to the job, so who knows if mccarthy will be.diame looks the part at times but he is still part of a midfield that does not protect its back four , i might add a defensive set up that has shipped the most goals in the premiership this season, plus going foward i dont think he has had one defence splitting pass , an assist for a goal or scored so far this season, so can someone please explain what it is he is so good at?
this is the reason i have not passed judgement on diame he looks okay but the stats on him point in a different direction and i cant quite put my finger on why.so thats 6 signings that martinez has made + henry thomas and not one of them you would say we will double or quadruple the fee we paid for in actual fact in the case of scotland and gomez we wouldnt get half the fee back if they were to be sold now.
nzogbia,rodellega,figueroa,cattermole,palacious,all signings by bruce more than made up for some so called “dodgy signings” and up to now the fact martinez has done half as well on the transfer front alone doesn’t quite stack up.
does that explain it ?
now lets look at the managerial records
bruce’s first game in charge was 1st of dec 2007 v man city and within 5 mins city had scored through a bramble boo boo,in the next 6 games – with the previous managers players we conceeded 11 goals,
then the transfer window opened and bruce brought in some of his own men,including some of the “dodgy signings”, in the next 21 league and cup games we had 17 goals scored against us including 10 clean sheets,we played all the top 8 teams in that time and chelsea twice (fa cup once) we also got our first ever points against a top 4 team liverpool,and went on to draw at chelsea and arsenal at home,he kept us up (his brief) quite easily,so under bruce it was 28 goals conceded 27 games thats an ave of 1.037 per game.the following season league only, as we all know it was 45 goals in 38 (1.18 per game)games but we were never ever mentioned in the relegation dog fight
now martinez’s record is 49 goals against in 22 league and cup games,thats 2.227 per game !!!!
martinez has also had the benifit of some of his own men and the defence that only conceded 73 goals in 59 games over a season and a half thats about two thirds of the total with a full year to go.
so on the defensive front now as well as transfer dealings martinez is losing ground,but then again im only quoting statistics,
please you clever types dont quote mark twain or benjamin disraeli at me,
no doubt the response from the believers camp will be the pleasure in watching the pretty stuff from spain as opposed to the dour stuff served up under bruce ,but that one has been aired many times before and will probably be done again before the season is out.
Ok but I am right in what I am saying.
I love men
I was just going to tell you that I actually thought your post on the other thread was funny then :)Why would you tell me that, I actually am the worst poster on here, and Im not joking, only do it because I have nothing better to do[/quote]
I know :P
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