Club Finances and Possible Future

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  • This topic has 122 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by horchorc.
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  • #162344
    r_p_mcmurphyR_P_McMurphy
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    Had a debate elsewhere recently about the financial position of our club and what the future might look like. Some of you maybe interested in what I found –

    Starting with the facts. The below relates to the 15/16 season when we were promoted from League 1 (Last set of published figures).

    Turnover – £15.7m (This turnover includes £12m in Parachute Payments :( )

    Salary Costs – £11.9m

    Transfers – £2.0m profit made

    Overall loss made – -£2.3m

    Below is an assumption of what the financial figures will be for this season (17/18) by using the figures from the last time we were in this League (Less the parachute payments)

    Turnover – £3.7m

    Salary costs – £10m (Assumed a small reduction but could be higher, Powell, Morsy, Grigg will be on decent wages)

    Transfers – I’m going to ignore any profit made from players sales because the club cannot rely on having a 6/7m Yanic Wildschute to sell every season.

    Overal loss of – £6-7mill (Surprisingly a similar figure we received for yanic)

    To Summarise

    – Current wage budget maintained due to Yanic money. Squad would look a lot different from the one you see today if he wasn’t sold in January

    – Failure to get promoted back to the Championship will result in the squad being broken up and wage bill reduced to around the 4million mark (a 60% reduction). Alternatively, the club rack up debts of about 6/7mill a year.

    – Being in the championship worth about £8mill extra a year to our club (Heard Jonathan Jackson say this once). Essential that we get promoted to have a chance of keeping the likes of Morsy, Grigg, Powell, etc.

    – Parachute Payments may have stopped, but we are still benefitting from the effects of the investments made with the premier league money. Yanic being one of those investments. This wont last.

    I’ve obviously made a lot of assumptions above. Feel free to correct me.

    #162345
    NuneatonlaticNuneatonlatic
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    Football finances change from week to week I imagine. Trying to work out yearly losses/gains is futile really simply because circumstances alter at a club in a heartbeat. We are probably going to post a huge loss on gate receipts but come January the likes of Burn, Morsey Grigg could go bringing in millions hopefully not mind. I’m sure the finances are being managed by the club to the best of its ability.

    #162346
    r_p_mcmurphyR_P_McMurphy
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    I agree to an extent. I’m not saying my figures are spot on, but I’m sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

    You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

    You can’t have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

    Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.

    #162348
    muttywhitedogmuttywhitedog
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    I thought it was £9 million in parachute payments that season. Don’t forget that grant holt was also paid off in that season. I doubt anyone in the current squad is on even 25% of what he was getting paid!

    #162349
    r_p_mcmurphyR_P_McMurphy
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    I thought it was £9 million in parachute payments that season. Don’t forget that grant holt was also paid off in that season. I doubt anyone in the current squad is on even 25% of what he was getting paid!

    12mil according to Jackson in this statement.

    https://www.wiganathletic.com/news/2016/december/club-statement-on-financial-accounts/

    #162351
    dnrdnr
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    Thanks for this, it is a really interesting and stimulating post. One key factor in this is of course how long for and how much will the ownership support loses, and whether they will do it in such a way that the club isnt left with ever increasing debts, that will be important for the future. There will come a time when an ownership change may be required and that will be a key moment for the club… If it doesn’t mean the end of the club then we will still have football to watch, maybe like the old days (non league, div 3 n 4 , maybe more like the current days. I have enjoyed them all just some a bit more than others! The financial part of the game isnt something I personally look at particularly but it kind of does make u think a little about the what ifs.

    #162352
    horchorc
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    I don’t think you are too far off with your assumptions, but our turnover is probably a bit more and our running costs are probably a bit less than the £10m you assume.

    I have found a few figures myself regarding incomings and have assumed a few more which would back up my belief that the deficit each season, albeit large, is probably not quite as much as the £6-7M you stated.

    Basic award across the EFL:
    Championship – £2.084m.
    League 1 – £677,000.
    League 2 – £472,000.

    Premier League Solidarity payment across the EFL:
    Championship – £4.3m
    League 1 – £645,000.
    League 2 – £430,000.

    £1.425m in season ticket sales (assuming 6500 season ticket holders averaging £250 each)

    £1.265m in pay on day gate receipts (£20 in admission on average and assuming 2500 paying fans x 23 matches)

    That makes the income £4.012m before any Cup matches, sponsopship money and any other income the club might generate.

    I know it doesn’t bridge the gap, but if the out goings are also less then player sales wouldn’t have to be as drastic.

    Looking at the Championship figures above, with increased attendances and controlled wages I think we could be self sustained or even profitable.

    #162354
    StandishWalkerStandishWalker
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    I agree to an extent. I’m not saying my figures are spot on, but I’m sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

    You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

    You can’t have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

    Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.

    Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.

    We’re starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.

    #162355
    r_p_mcmurphyR_P_McMurphy
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    I agree to an extent. I’m not saying my figures are spot on, but I’m sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.

    You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.

    You can’t have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.

    Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.

    Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.

    We’re starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.[/quote]

    We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?

    We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.

    #162358
    bigroybigroy
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    Wage bill won’t be ten million. Top earner at club is Nick Powell on 8K per week. Rest nowhere near that.

    #162359
    r_p_mcmurphyR_P_McMurphy
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    Wage bill won’t be ten million. Top earner at club is Nick Powell on 8K per week. Rest nowhere near that.

    Is this fact? Or are you just assuming? (I think I already know the answer)

    The last time we were in League One, the wage bill stood at 11.9million. That is a published fact. What makes you think that our current wage bill is significantly lower than £10million? We have a lot of the same players we did the last time we played in this League (Grigg, Jacobs, Power, Morgan, Perkins, James, etc) plus some expensive additions (Powell, Morsy, McDonald)

    How do you know Nick Powell is the highest earner and how do you know he is on 8k a week?

    #162360
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    Wage bill won’t be ten million. Top earner at club is Nick Powell on 8K per week. Rest nowhere near that.

    Assuming that info is correct, then I’d say that £10mill won’t be far off. That makes Powell on £416k a year – the club then has to pay tax & NI on top of that at around 25% making his cost to the club £520k. That means it only takes 19 players at that level to reach £10mill.

    Now I know you say that he’s the top earner but even if the rest of the 1st team squad are on between £3k-£8k a week that £10mill disappears pretty quick.
    Plus the development squad, plus the scouts, plus the non-playing staff

    #162361
    r_p_mcmurphyR_P_McMurphy
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    If the below article is to be believed, Nick Powell was offered £16,000 p/w to sign for Wolves before he joined us.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3686422/Wigan-close-signing-former-Manchester-United-starlet-Nick-Powell-beating-Wolves-Hull-Blackburn-young-forward.html

    Bigroy? We need your input. Where did you get the 8k figure from?

    #162363
    horchorc
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    Whichever way you look at it we still have a big deficit if we stay in League One.
    If we can get promoted the extra money we generate would balance the books as long as we didn’t go stupid on wages and big name players.

    Once in the Champioship we know from experience that a happy bunch of decent well managed players, playing as a team can get you into the PL. There were no mega stars in Paul Jewells team, just hard working players who played for each other.

    With the money available in the PL these days, one well managed season can set a club like ours up for donkeys years. Burnley and Bournemouth will have bank balances bulging and should never hit financial hardship again.

    It will take some hard work but I am confident we will grace the top flight again if the people involved with the running of the club want it enough.

    #162367
    donnys pageDonnys Page
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    The Dingles also managed to develop a quality academy/ training centre and own Turf Moor too. The season after they were promoted with Leicester they basically sacrificed for money and bounced straight back on a budget and after selling players. Second year in there this time and looking safe for a third.
    It’s just all about money and just finishing fourth bottom. Not very interesting but very lucrative. We had eight years and have no assets whatsoever which could be worrying depending on which way you look at it.

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Forums Latics Crazy Forum Club Finances and Possible Future