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I love it. Whelan doing what is best.
If he passed away as club owner, Barclays would immediately call in the debts…the loans Whelan took out for the club and which he has been guarantor for. It could put Wigan in serious trouble. Apparently Barclays risk management team has us on the ‘at risk’ list.
This takeover will do away with that possibility. The Football League has learned a lot from previous foreign investments and takeovers, with thorough testing and examining if diligence.
I would imagine that over 90% of the clubs competing in the league are on the “At risk” list vat. The Chinese seem deadly serious about football at present so I think that if we are to be bought out I would rather it be them than say the Yanks or Korean groups. Who knows we may even be able to keep the team together post January.
I love it. Whelan doing what is best.If he passed away as club owner, Barclays would immediately call in the debts…the loans Whelan took out for the club and which he has been guarantor for. It could put Wigan in serious trouble. Apparently Barclays risk management team has us on the ‘at risk’ list.
This takeover will do away with that possibility. The Football League has learned a lot from previous foreign investments and takeovers, with thorough testing and examining if diligence.
Forgot about your mate who breaches rule 1 of his job.
I agree to an extent. I’m not saying my figures are spot on, but I’m sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.
You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.
You can’t have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.
Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.
We’re starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.[/quote]
We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?
We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.[/quote]There are a few who are out on loan at present who could potentially be first teamers or sold for a profit next season.
No seven million pound players yet, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction from when Bruce pretty much closed down the academy and took all emphasis away from youth development in order to channel the funds into sustaining a high first team wage bill.[/quote]
Bruce channelled funds away from youth development? That’s a big claim.
How much do you think the club was spending on youth development at the time?
How much of the £40million+ a year wage bill was thanks to channelling money away from youth development?[/quote]
It is a big claim, but accounts of Bruce’s disinterest in the youth teams were widespread at the time of Martinez’s appointment.No idea what the financials were. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme of things.
My point is, there is a noticeable improvement on the amount of players who come through the ranks at Wigan than there was ten years ago – albeit, even if they are then loaned out.
Being taken over by Chinese businessmen apparently. Oh the irony!
You never answered my questions above Bigroy. I assume you avoided the questions because you had no answer to them?[/quote]
Will PM you.[/quote]
Don’t bother PM’ing me. Just give us your answers here.
I agree to an extent. I’m not saying my figures are spot on, but I’m sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.
You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.
You can’t have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.
Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.
We’re starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.[/quote]
We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?
We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.[/quote]There are a few who are out on loan at present who could potentially be first teamers or sold for a profit next season.
No seven million pound players yet, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction from when Bruce pretty much closed down the academy and took all emphasis away from youth development in order to channel the funds into sustaining a high first team wage bill.[/quote]
Bruce channelled funds away from youth development? That’s a big claim.
How much do you think the club was spending on youth development at the time?
How much of the £40million+ a year wage bill was thanks to channelling money away from youth development?[/quote]
It is a big claim, but accounts of Bruce’s disinterest in the youth teams were widespread at the time of Martinez’s appointment.No idea what the financials were. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme of things.
My point is, there is a noticeable improvement on the amount of players who come through the ranks at Wigan than there was ten years ago – albeit, even if they are then loaned out.[/quote]
So no proof that Bruce decided to “Pretty much closed down the academy to channel funds to the first team”? It was just an assumption?
Ultimately, a decision to stop funding youth development would not be left in the current managers hands.
That noticeable improvement maybe due to the fact we are now in League One. The standard needed to make it into our first team is not as high.
I agree to an extent. I’m not saying my figures are spot on, but I’m sure we can all agree that we will have to make significant changes if our long term future is League 1/Lower Championship.
You mention money from the sale of Burn, Morsy and Grigg. Another example of premier league money being invested and potentially offsetting any future loses. It wont last.
You can’t have a business model that relies on having a player to sell for millions every year.
Our long term future will be relying on a wage budget less that half of what we currently enjoy.
Unless, of course, you have an academy that produces these players on a fairly regular basis like Mddlesbrough and Crewe have done in the past.
We’re starting to show signs of producing decent players from the academy, so fingers crossed, we get promoted this year and can keep that up.[/quote]
We may have decent young players in the academy but how many are close to making a significant break through?
We have an advantage over the majority of League 1 at this moment in time. The advantage will disappear (or significantly reduce) next season.[/quote]There are a few who are out on loan at present who could potentially be first teamers or sold for a profit next season.
No seven million pound players yet, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction from when Bruce pretty much closed down the academy and took all emphasis away from youth development in order to channel the funds into sustaining a high first team wage bill.[/quote]
Bruce channelled funds away from youth development? That’s a big claim.
How much do you think the club was spending on youth development at the time?
How much of the £40million+ a year wage bill was thanks to channelling money away from youth development?[/quote]
It is a big claim, but accounts of Bruce’s disinterest in the youth teams were widespread at the time of Martinez’s appointment.No idea what the financials were. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme of things.
My point is, there is a noticeable improvement on the amount of players who come through the ranks at Wigan than there was ten years ago – albeit, even if they are then loaned out.[/quote]
So no proof that Bruce decided to “Pretty much closed down the academy to channel funds to the first team”? It was just an assumption?
Ultimately, a decision to stop funding youth development would not be left in the current managers hands.
That noticeable improvement maybe due to the fact we are now in League One. The standard needed to make it into our first team is not as high.[/quote]
No, funnily enough, I don’t have written proof readily available of something that was happening ten years ago.Although, I will check in my Latics scrapbooks when I get home tonight to see if I can find something*
Of course playing at a lower level means the standard required to get into the first team is much higher, but I’m also talking about players who featured in the first team squads under Martinez and the Championship like Golobart, McManaman, Mustoe, Redmond, Buxton and Nicholls.
*I won’t
Sorry to butt in on your discussuion but the emphasis on the 1st team over youth development pre-dated Bruce.
Dave Whelan spoke of it when he first bought us. Paul Jewell also spoke about it & it was all about getting as high as we could to get the money in & then look at the long term issues of Academies etc…
On Steve Bruce in particular he was just following the same model as previous managers & I distinctly remember him saying when we signed those 2 Polish youngsters, that signings like this were the future route of Latics recruitment.
Let’s not also forget that Bruce was in charge when Whelan decided during the Jan transfer window of 2009 that the club was going to start to move towards self-sufficiency.
Therefore by the time Bobby arrived several months later, the dynamic of the club had shifted considerably & his pressure on Whelan to develop the youth side of things & invest in new facilities for them would likely have come no matter who the manager wasSorry to butt in on your discussuion but the emphasis on the 1st team over youth development pre-dated Bruce.Dave Whelan spoke of it when he first bought us. Paul Jewell also spoke about it & it was all about getting as high as we could to get the money in & then look at the long term issues of Academies etc…
On Steve Bruce in particular he was just following the same model as previous managers & I distinctly remember him saying when we signed those 2 Polish youngsters, that signings like this were the future route of Latics recruitment.
Let’s not also forget that Bruce was in charge when Whelan decided during the Jan transfer window of 2009 that the club was going to start to move towards self-sufficiency.
Therefore by the time Bobby arrived several months later, the dynamic of the club had shifted considerably & his pressure on Whelan to develop the youth side of things & invest in new facilities for them would likely have come no matter who the manager wasI was going to mention that it was also the case under Jewell, but didn’t bother.
I’ve heard a couple of accounts from parents who had kids at the club during this time who said their kids never came into contact with Bruce or his first team staff, whereas when Martinez came in there were noticeable improvements in the equipment they used, the way in which they were treated etc. Plus Martinez and Jones were regular visitors to training sessions.
The wheels may have been in motion when Martinez arrived, but he was certainly more of an advocate of developing youth players than his two (three if you count Hutchings) predecessors.
Sorry to butt in on your discussuion but the emphasis on the 1st team over youth development pre-dated Bruce.
Dave Whelan spoke of it when he first bought us. Paul Jewell also spoke about it & it was all about getting as high as we could to get the money in & then look at the long term issues of Academies etc…
On Steve Bruce in particular he was just following the same model as previous managers & I distinctly remember him saying when we signed those 2 Polish youngsters, that signings like this were the future route of Latics recruitment.
Let’s not also forget that Bruce was in charge when Whelan decided during the Jan transfer window of 2009 that the club was going to start to move towards self-sufficiency.
Therefore by the time Bobby arrived several months later, the dynamic of the club had shifted considerably & his pressure on Whelan to develop the youth side of things & invest in new facilities for them would likely have come no matter who the manager wasI was going to mention that it was also the case under Jewell, but didn’t bother.
I’ve heard a couple of accounts from parents who had kids at the club during this time who said their kids never came into contact with Bruce or his first team staff, whereas when Martinez came in there were noticeable improvements in the equipment they used, the way in which they were treated etc. Plus Martinez and Jones were regular visitors to training sessions.
The wheels may have been in motion when Martinez arrived, but he was certainly more of an advocate of developing youth players than his two (three if you count Hutchings) predecessors.[/quote]
I forget the exact date this story comes from but a mate of mine knew someone whose son was being coveted by quite a few local clubs.
The players dad was a Latics fan so my mate told him he was a bit surprised when the lad went elsewhere (I think it was possibly Crewe) – the lad’s dad turned round & said there was no way he was ever gonna go to Latics coz the whole set up was “cr@p”Back to your point, I think whoever had been in charge would have had to have gone down the same route as Bobby coz it was more of an issue for him. It wasn’t to the previous 3 as they had bigger 1st team budgets
Pretty sure that Bruce said at a fans forum that for a club like us in the catchment area that we are, an academy is a waste of money for what it actually produces.
Sorry to butt in on your discussuion but the emphasis on the 1st team over youth development pre-dated Bruce.
Dave Whelan spoke of it when he first bought us. Paul Jewell also spoke about it & it was all about getting as high as we could to get the money in & then look at the long term issues of Academies etc…
On Steve Bruce in particular he was just following the same model as previous managers & I distinctly remember him saying when we signed those 2 Polish youngsters, that signings like this were the future route of Latics recruitment.
Let’s not also forget that Bruce was in charge when Whelan decided during the Jan transfer window of 2009 that the club was going to start to move towards self-sufficiency.
Therefore by the time Bobby arrived several months later, the dynamic of the club had shifted considerably & his pressure on Whelan to develop the youth side of things & invest in new facilities for them would likely have come no matter who the manager wasI was going to mention that it was also the case under Jewell, but didn’t bother.
I’ve heard a couple of accounts from parents who had kids at the club during this time who said their kids never came into contact with Bruce or his first team staff, whereas when Martinez came in there were noticeable improvements in the equipment they used, the way in which they were treated etc. Plus Martinez and Jones were regular visitors to training sessions.
The wheels may have been in motion when Martinez arrived, but he was certainly more of an advocate of developing youth players than his two (three if you count Hutchings) predecessors.[/quote]
I went to a few Development team games whenI could back then and Martinez (and sometimes Jackson) were often at the games
BBC now reporting deal with a Hong Kong consortium worth 20 million will hopefully be completed by the January transfer window. Just have to wait and see but personally I think this uncertainty will not help our goal of getting back in the championship particularly for Cook and his staff.
BBC now reporting deal with a Hong Kong consortium worth 20 million will hopefully be completed by the January transfer window. Just have to wait and see but personally I think this uncertainty will not help our goal of getting back in the championship particularly for Cook and his staff.May possibly mean we won’t have to sell at that window and maybe Paul Cook may get a budget that could help the promotion cause and be a start to the strengthening for the championship next season.
https://www.trainingground.guru/articles/academy-audit
Guess this gives a more objective view.
Had a debate elsewhere recently about the financial position of our club and what the future might look like. Some of you maybe interested in what I found –Starting with the facts. The below relates to the 15/16 season when we were promoted from League 1 (Last set of published figures).
Turnover – £15.7m (This turnover includes £12m in Parachute Payments :( )
Salary Costs – £11.9m
Transfers – £2.0m profit made
Overall loss made – -£2.3m
Below is an assumption of what the financial figures will be for this season (17/18) by using the figures from the last time we were in this League (Less the parachute payments)
Turnover – £3.7m
Salary costs – £10m (Assumed a small reduction but could be higher, Powell, Morsy, Grigg will be on decent wages)
Transfers – I’m going to ignore any profit made from players sales because the club cannot rely on having a 6/7m Yanic Wildschute to sell every season.
Overal loss of – £6-7mill (Surprisingly a similar figure we received for yanic)
To Summarise
– Current wage budget maintained due to Yanic money. Squad would look a lot different from the one you see today if he wasn’t sold in January
– Failure to get promoted back to the Championship will result in the squad being broken up and wage bill reduced to around the 4million mark (a 60% reduction). Alternatively, the club rack up debts of about 6/7mill a year.
– Being in the championship worth about £8mill extra a year to our club (Heard Jonathan Jackson say this once). Essential that we get promoted to have a chance of keeping the likes of Morsy, Grigg, Powell, etc.
– Parachute Payments may have stopped, but we are still benefitting from the effects of the investments made with the premier league money. Yanic being one of those investments. This wont last.
I’ve obviously made a lot of assumptions above. Feel free to correct me.
Thought I would bump this back to the top having just viewed the latest set of financial figures that cover the 16/17 season. My prediction for this seasons finances appear on target based on the latest figures
We will post a 6/7million loss for this season ending 31st May 2018 (figures for this season will be realeased this time next year). This is unless we sell players to cover this loss in January.
The perspective new owners will know this. Will they be happy to cover the losses or will they persue a sustainable future?
Interesting times.
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