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Tyldesley
Can’t have me agreeing with you twice in the same month, so….
‘Bobby has made alot of mistakes during his time at Latics – from some of his signings, to some of his tactics, to some of his team selections, to some of his substitutions (& the timing of them), playing players out of position, imposing a system on players who didn;t have teh skill set for it. No problem there as such as everybody makes mistakes’Obviously that’s an opinion – especially the bit about team selection and substitutions. I’m sure he has made a lot of mistakes but I’m not qualified or in a position to say what they are.
Who knows why he made some of the decision he has made, and who knows what would have happened if he had played X instead Y? He works on a daily basis with these players, and some of the players who were woeful earlier in the season now look like world-beaters. I remember him saying in the forum thingy I attended that Ben Watson hit virtually every corner he took in training right on the target, then when it came to a game it all went pear shaped. He obviously sees things in training that we don’t and has faith in the players he has stood by, and to say X should have played instead of Y is easy after the event.
‘He also then realised an essential part of the new system was an out & out left wing back & he got one’
I’m positive it wasn’t such a road to Damascus moment. Martinez has stated that he has been tracking Beausejour since the last World Cup and there were even strong rumours all over the Birmingham forums about him signing for us last August after they were relegated.
‘I don’t believe that this was what Bobby was always looking towards in terms of the system otherwise it could & would have been introduced long before but I think Bobby & his team (who also took alot of stick off many) realised in the Autumn that what they had been trying wasn’t working & had the nouse to devise one that would suit the squad’
He probably wasn’t looking for this system, but it was introduced with a modicum of success just before Christmas then seemingly abandoned temporarily for whatever reason after the Man Utd game. He probably didn’t introduce it and stick with it earlier in the season, or maybe even last year, as he had far too many round holes and square pegs.
In my opinion, four players getting into the team have made a huge difference – Beausejour Boyce, McArthur and Maloney.
Bobby has made alot of mistakes during his time at Latics – from some of his signings, to some of his tactics, to some of his team selections, to some of his substitutions (& the timing of them), playing players out of position, imposing a system on players who didn;t have teh skill set for it. No problem there as such as everybody makes mistakes
I for one have stated from a relatively early stage (I think the Spurs defeat) that I didn’t think he was up to the job & that he seemed unable to learn from his mistakes & that the same ones seemed to be made over & over & over again – I once likened him to that Homer Simpson sketch you can see on Channel 4 where he keeps trying to grab the 4 pack of beer that is on the leccy cables.
Last season he seemed to be starting to go down the right track only for N’Zogbia to go & this season seem to be a step backwardsI did however also say that I would like nothing more than for Bobby to prove me wrong and whilst there are still 2 games of this season to go & the start of next season to come, he seems to be doing exactly that.
Bobby has to take great credit for switching to the 3 at the back system because it suits those players down to the ground – Figueroa looks reborn, Alacaraz finally looks like he knows what he gets paid for doing & Caldwell to be frank looks like a different player. He also then realised an essential part of the new system was an out & out left wing back & he got one
After losing Diame to the ACN & struggling in January he gave McArthur a chance as a sub & had the nouse to notice the improvement he could bring & the guts to keep him in the side. Likewise Maloney got his chance away at Norwich & Bobby was able to see the extra “oomph” this gave the team going forward & dropped Gomez.
Unlike last season where there was not noticeable change other than the players form improving this season has turned around in 3 stages where I think, as manager, Bobby must take complete & total credit for.
I don’t believe that this was what Bobby was always looking towards in terms of the system otherwise it could & would have been introduced long before but I think Bobby & his team (who also took alot of stick off many) realised in the Autumn that what they had been trying wasn’t working & had the nouse to devise one that would suit the squadFull marks to em coz I’ve never seen a Latics side (in any division) to look as tactically astute (when they need to attack they attack as a team, when they need to defend they defend as a team) as this one does now – long may it continue
Totally agree. We were lifeless for long parts of this season just as Blackburn were yesterday. My opinion was that that was down to Bob and it still is my opinion. He has however turned it round as a Wigan Athletic fan I couldn’t be happier.
He, and the players, have shown how good they can be and I hope that that can continue for a full season because the great escape won’t work every season.
It all boils down to the fact that it takes time to find the right players, tactics, formations, systems etc etc.. Admittedly it may have taken bobby longer than what he first predicted, but to quote the man himself “we are now getting our rewards.” all we need now is a decentish striker (steven fletcher anyone??) & the jigsaw might be complete.
Do you not think that Di Santo could be that decent striker? With the service and growing confidence – he could be it – what we need is someone to fill in as a sub or when injured and keep Sammon as the third choice. Sammon has the right work ethic we just need to see if Bobby can polish him up to become a permier league striker (rather than the championship striker he is). Can’t fualt his endeavour though.
Our problem is still going to be the same as before – if there is a decent striker available, then everyone will be after him and given a choice, even if we are prepared to match the pay packet, would they come to Wigan? The reality is that we need to find the rough diamonds and polish them.
TyldesleyCan’t have me agreeing with you twice in the same month, so….
‘Bobby has made alot of mistakes during his time at Latics – from some of his signings, to some of his tactics, to some of his team selections, to some of his substitutions (& the timing of them), playing players out of position, imposing a system on players who didn;t have teh skill set for it. No problem there as such as everybody makes mistakes’Obviously that’s an opinion – especially the bit about team selection and substitutions. I’m sure he has made a lot of mistakes but I’m not qualified or in a position to say what they are.
Who knows why he made some of the decision he has made, and who knows what would have happened if he had played X instead Y? He works on a daily basis with these players, and some of the players who were woeful earlier in the season now look like world-beaters. I remember him saying in the forum thingy I attended that Ben Watson hit virtually every corner he took in training right on the target, then when it came to a game it all went pear shaped. He obviously sees things in training that we don’t and has faith in the players he has stood by, and to say X should have played instead of Y is easy after the event.
‘He also then realised an essential part of the new system was an out & out left wing back & he got one’
I’m positive it wasn’t such a road to Damascus moment. Martinez has stated that he has been tracking Beausejour since the last World Cup and there were even strong rumours all over the Birmingham forums about him signing for us last August after they were relegated.
‘I don’t believe that this was what Bobby was always looking towards in terms of the system otherwise it could & would have been introduced long before but I think Bobby & his team (who also took alot of stick off many) realised in the Autumn that what they had been trying wasn’t working & had the nouse to devise one that would suit the squad’
He probably wasn’t looking for this system, but it was introduced with a modicum of success just before Christmas then seemingly abandoned temporarily for whatever reason after the Man Utd game. He probably didn’t introduce it and stick with it earlier in the season, or maybe even last year, as he had far too many round holes and square pegs.
In my opinion, four players getting into the team have made a huge difference – Beausejour Boyce, McArthur and Maloney.
You don’t need to be qualified in anything to see/know what some of the mistakes were. As I said, every manager makes them & I’d have expected him to make them in the past & I’d expect him to make them in the future. My problem, & of course its only an opinion as virtually anything is, was that he seemed to continue making the same ones. He had his reasons & thinking behind them, & yes its all well & good being wise after the event, but when they’ve had the results that they sometimes had then they were quite clearly mistakes. Not being argumentative for the sake of it but even Bobby would probably admit mistakes have been made & that was my point – well & learning from them.
On Beausejour – I didn’t mean it to sound like a “Damascus” moment & I’ve no doubt he was on the radar for some time but I think the boat was pushed out a bit more for it this time coz he knew he would suit the new system. Bloody hell I get criticised when I criticise him & criticised when i praise him!!! ;)
On the system, he was obviously looking for something different but which fitted in with his ethos for some time & so should any manager worth his salt after 9 defeats on the bounce. Not sure I’d agree that he didn’t introduce it earlier in the season or the season before coz of teh square pegs/round holes thing – when he introduced it in december Bobby had no-one in the squad that wasn’t there at the end of August. Likewise last season he had his keeper, back 3, the initial 2 wing backs he started the system with & one who is playing there now, McCarthy was here, McArthur wasn’t ready but Diame & Watson could both have played that role(whether as effectively I don’t know), Di Santo was here, and whilst Moses probably wasn’t ready & Maloney not here he had both N’Zogbia & Gomez. All in all i think last season’s squad could have played it certainly mroe effectively than they played the old system for most fo the season
On your last sentence I think I’ve said in this thread (but maybe not) & definitely in one the other week stage one was the change in formation, stage 2 was introducing McArthur, very closely followed by stage 3 (signing Beausejour) & then the final piece in the jigsaw was introducing Maloney. Personally I don’t think Boyce coming back has had much to do with it – i don’t think he’s done anything wrong but I think Stam would be far better suited to that role. All things or players introduced or signed by the man himself so as i said he deserves all the praise he gets
Sorry Tyldesely, I’ll come clean and admit I was being pedantic for the sake of it. What can I say? It was a slow day.
I do honestly think Boyce has made a big difference though. Stam is superb going forwards and does suit the system down to a tee, but his defending is ropey at times. Boyce helps steady the ship – which I think was more important.
It’s been dire at times under Martinez but my gripe with the Darkside is that they have failed to see the bigger picture. Football is moving on from the “let’s lump it forward and play the percentages” style. It may have been some time coming and it may have come about by default perhaps but thankfully it does seem to have finally fallen into place. More importantly it seems the players also believe in how Martinez is trying to get them to play.
Of course the wheels could still come off this season and even if that should happen, and I’d be surprised and mightily disappointed if it did, I’ll still stand by what Martinez has set out to achieve at this club.
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