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Jesus indeed, that was like pulling teeth.
All of which minus Diame had nothing but nice things to say about their time here and all which minus Diame left us in a better position financially than Bruce!
A little respect can go along way especially towards a club that put thousands of pounds in your pocket!
So what? They use the club as a stepping stone,as Bruce did & like Martinez will at some stage in his career,next thicko come on down
So what? They use the club as a stepping stone,as Bruce did & like Martinez will at some stage in his career,next thicko come on downMartinez has never treated us as a stepping stone.
Everything he has done has been for the good of the club not himself.
You have to be really thick not to understand that.
Whether the club could afford it is another matter
One that should not be brushed aside as you are teetering at the fact Bruce was a better Manager for us than Roberto.
Bruce would of took us down had he stayed and we would be in a much worse position than we are right now.[/quote]
I haven’t said anywhere on this thread that I thought Bruce was a better Latics manager than bobby is. Nor have i hinted that’s what I think
To be honest you can’t compare the 2 – Bruce achieved much better league positions but he operated under a far bigger budget nor did he win a major cup or beat the “big boys”
Some times I preferred the style of football under Bruce but some times the football produced under Bobby has wiped the floor with it (& vice versa)
All I’ve done is defend Titus Bramble & state that under Bruce he was superb & he was. In fact the whole defence was & you can’t get away from that fact. Under Martinez’s defensive system pretty much the same defence conceded more goals in 3 months than they had in the previous season under Bruce but on the flip side Bobby’s teams have scored more goals
However just as you can’t use Bobby’s poorer league finishes to say he is a poorer manager (due to the difference in budgets) nor IMO can you say the Bruce would definitely have got Latics relegated (do you have the ability to travel back & forth between other realities?)
Nor can you say Latics would have been in a far worse position – he’d have had to operate under the same budget constraints & again you/we have no idea of the players he’d have signed or how he’d have attempted to re-structure the club[/quote]Of course you can compare the two you just did!!!!
Bruce is only good with money to spend, its why he jumped ship once he realised Whelan would no longer fund the plus signs on his CV!
His transfer record is absolutely terrible.
Putting aside the melons he signed for us and Sunderland he once again has thrown money at the situation to get Hull out of the Championship.
He spent a shit load of money here and he amounted to nothing.
Roberto operated under a third of his budget and won the FA cup.[/quote]
You’re completely misreading my post or I haven’t made it clear enough – I wasn’t attempting to say one was better than the other but that they achieved things the other didn’t but operated under different eras financially. One did far better in the league the other fix far better in the cup
I can see the plus & minus points for them both whereas you just seem completely blinkered to be honestWhilst not saying one is better than the other I will defend Bruce against some of the things you said:
“He spent a shit load of money here & amounted to nothing” – for a start he turned round the absolute disaster that was Hutchings reign in a matter of weeks & in the second half of that first season the form of the team was better than anything outside of the top 4. The following season that continued & he had Latics heading fit Europe until Dave Whelan changed the goalposts for the club financially & sold his team out from under him despite Bruce having come out publicly & said he would be jnsane to even consider selling any if his players. That & the chairman stating “job done lets look at next season” in early January contributed as much to the 2nd half slump as anything else yet they still managed Latics 2nd highest league finish ever. Hardly nothing!!!
Yes Bruce signed some players who turned out to be rights bags if shit but as someone has pointed out on this or another thread, so has Alex Ferguson. So has Bobby including Latics record ever signing. Bruce also signed some quality players just as Bobby has
Yes Bruce never won an FA Cup whilst in charge of Latics but he never got us relegated either[/quote]Believe it or not I am not analysing everything you say and replying directly to it.
People who hold Bruce in high esteem are often clutching to the fact of one good league position.
If I could be arsed I could easily demonstrate Bruces terrible transfer record on a season by season basis and to compare to the likes of Ferguson’s is absolutely ridiculous.
Bruce left us in a worse position as a club TWICE.
He won no silverware.
He failed to do anything other than bend over when we played any of the so called “big clubs”
Once he left he poached one of the only decent signings he ever made!
He preceded to bad mouth the club with a number of disrespectful comments after he had left.
There is your comparison and quite frankly Bruce can go arouse himself for all I care he didn’t give two cacks about this club and it winds me up when people lick his bumhole as if he did anything other than use us as a career stepping stone TWICE!!![/quote]
Then to be honest it’s impossible to have a reasoned debate with you about his record as your dislike for him as a person is completely blinding you to anything he did or didn’t do as a football manager
For what it’s worth I agree with your sentiments about him & how he treated the club but it doesn’t stop me seeing the good (& bad) that he did. And likewise I think Bobby is a great guy with genuine live for the club but I can see the bad (& good) that he does.
Just to highlight this point Steve Bruce got us a draw away at Chelsea (the same place Latics lost 8-0 the season after), came within a very poor refs decision of getting an away win @ Anfield, beat Spurs, drew @ Anfield, drew with Liverpool home etc ..
Against United Bruce had a record of 1 goal for & 5 against in 3 games so per game that’s 0.33 for & 1.7 against & the team never conceded more than 2 in a game. Under Bobby Latics have scored 1 & conceded 29 in 8 games. Per game that’s 0.13 for & 3.6 against & have lost 5-0 3 times & 4-0 3 times. Yet it’s Steve Bruce’s teams you accuse of bending over for the big boys!!! It beggars belief you can be so blinded!!!Whether the club could afford it is another matter
One that should not be brushed aside as you are teetering at the fact Bruce was a better Manager for us than Roberto.
Bruce would of took us down had he stayed and we would be in a much worse position than we are right now.[/quote]
I haven’t said anywhere on this thread that I thought Bruce was a better Latics manager than bobby is. Nor have i hinted that’s what I think
To be honest you can’t compare the 2 – Bruce achieved much better league positions but he operated under a far bigger budget nor did he win a major cup or beat the “big boys”
Some times I preferred the style of football under Bruce but some times the football produced under Bobby has wiped the floor with it (& vice versa)
All I’ve done is defend Titus Bramble & state that under Bruce he was superb & he was. In fact the whole defence was & you can’t get away from that fact. Under Martinez’s defensive system pretty much the same defence conceded more goals in 3 months than they had in the previous season under Bruce but on the flip side Bobby’s teams have scored more goals
However just as you can’t use Bobby’s poorer league finishes to say he is a poorer manager (due to the difference in budgets) nor IMO can you say the Bruce would definitely have got Latics relegated (do you have the ability to travel back & forth between other realities?)
Nor can you say Latics would have been in a far worse position – he’d have had to operate under the same budget constraints & again you/we have no idea of the players he’d have signed or how he’d have attempted to re-structure the club[/quote]Of course you can compare the two you just did!!!!
Bruce is only good with money to spend, its why he jumped ship once he realised Whelan would no longer fund the plus signs on his CV!
His transfer record is absolutely terrible.
Putting aside the melons he signed for us and Sunderland he once again has thrown money at the situation to get Hull out of the Championship.
He spent a shit load of money here and he amounted to nothing.
Roberto operated under a third of his budget and won the FA cup.[/quote]
You’re completely misreading my post or I haven’t made it clear enough – I wasn’t attempting to say one was better than the other but that they achieved things the other didn’t but operated under different eras financially. One did far better in the league the other fix far better in the cup
I can see the plus & minus points for them both whereas you just seem completely blinkered to be honestWhilst not saying one is better than the other I will defend Bruce against some of the things you said:
“He spent a shit load of money here & amounted to nothing” – for a start he turned round the absolute disaster that was Hutchings reign in a matter of weeks & in the second half of that first season the form of the team was better than anything outside of the top 4. The following season that continued & he had Latics heading fit Europe until Dave Whelan changed the goalposts for the club financially & sold his team out from under him despite Bruce having come out publicly & said he would be jnsane to even consider selling any if his players. That & the chairman stating “job done lets look at next season” in early January contributed as much to the 2nd half slump as anything else yet they still managed Latics 2nd highest league finish ever. Hardly nothing!!!
Yes Bruce signed some players who turned out to be rights bags if shit but as someone has pointed out on this or another thread, so has Alex Ferguson. So has Bobby including Latics record ever signing. Bruce also signed some quality players just as Bobby has
Yes Bruce never won an FA Cup whilst in charge of Latics but he never got us relegated either[/quote]Believe it or not I am not analysing everything you say and replying directly to it.
People who hold Bruce in high esteem are often clutching to the fact of one good league position.
If I could be arsed I could easily demonstrate Bruces terrible transfer record on a season by season basis and to compare to the likes of Ferguson’s is absolutely ridiculous.
Bruce left us in a worse position as a club TWICE.
He won no silverware.
He failed to do anything other than bend over when we played any of the so called “big clubs”
Once he left he poached one of the only decent signings he ever made!
He preceded to bad mouth the club with a number of disrespectful comments after he had left.
There is your comparison and quite frankly Bruce can go arouse himself for all I care he didn’t give two cacks about this club and it winds me up when people lick his bumhole as if he did anything other than use us as a career stepping stone TWICE!!![/quote]
Then to be honest it’s impossible to have a reasoned debate with you about his record as your dislike for him as a person is completely blinding you to anything he did or didn’t do as a football manager
For what it’s worth I agree with your sentiments about him & how he treated the club but it doesn’t stop me seeing the good (& bad) that he did. And likewise I think Bobby is a great guy with genuine live for the club but I can see the bad (& good) that he does.
Just to highlight this point Steve Bruce got us a draw away at Chelsea (the same place Latics lost 8-0 the season after), came within a very poor refs decision of getting an away win @ Anfield, beat Spurs, drew @ Anfield, drew with Liverpool home etc ..
Against United Bruce had a record of 1 goal for & 5 against in 3 games so per game that’s 0.33 for & 1.7 against & the team never conceded more than 2 in a game. Under Bobby Latics have scored 1 & conceded 29 in 8 games. Per game that’s 0.13 for & 3.6 against & have lost 5-0 3 times & 4-0 3 times. Yet it’s Steve Bruce’s teams you accuse of bending over for the big boys!!! It beggars belief you can be so blinded!!![/quote]I hope you enjoyed your trawl for that information.
Shame I didn’t read any of it.
Goodnight.
You keep on contradicting yourself Salford, as long as you are happy in luvvie land you wil be fine goodpost
I hope you enjoyed your trawl for that information.Shame I didn’t read any of it.
Goodnight.
No need to trawl, unlike you so it seems I am able to remember actual scorelines & not make stuff up in my head
And thanks for showing that you are one of those people who when faced with facts that contradict their belief simply stick their fingers in their ears & scream la la la – nice one
On average we have conceded just under 69 goals a season during RM’s tenure, now surely that is cause for concern as regards to his defensive strategies. It really is that simple ! The chances as many say are that we would eventually go down, there was never going to be any big money bandied about and we were never going to attract players of a certain standard but to keep making the same defensive mistakes over and over again was always going to catch up with us eventually. The Spurs and Swansea errors really did drive it home how inept our defense really is ! I just hope that whoever is our manager next season they address a glaringly obvious problem !
You know what Phil I think you have just solved the problem.
We should obviously as you pointed out appoint someone who can address the problem of our defence this season.
Does anyone know any miracle makers or witch doctors who are available?
Alcaraz was the key loss for us this season without that injury our form with him in the side shows we would of been in a far better position.[/quote]
The stats are over 4 seasons ! 69 goals on average !! Problem or not ?[/quote]
As usual plenty of criticism and no answers.
Who is your miracle maker of choice that can provide a defence worthy of competing with some of the top attacking footballers in the world at a fraction of cost?[/quote]
No point arguing with this fellah. Love irons out all issues.
On average we have conceded just under 69 goals a season during RM’s tenure, now surely that is cause for concern as regards to his defensive strategies. It really is that simple ! The chances as many say are that we would eventually go down, there was never going to be any big money bandied about and we were never going to attract players of a certain standard but to keep making the same defensive mistakes over and over again was always going to catch up with us eventually. The Spurs and Swansea errors really did drive it home how inept our defense really is ! I just hope that whoever is our manager next season they address a glaringly obvious problem !
You know what Phil I think you have just solved the problem.
We should obviously as you pointed out appoint someone who can address the problem of our defence this season.
Does anyone know any miracle makers or witch doctors who are available?
Alcaraz was the key loss for us this season without that injury our form with him in the side shows we would of been in a far better position.[/quote]
The stats are over 4 seasons ! 69 goals on average !! Problem or not ?[/quote]
As usual plenty of criticism and no answers.
Who is your miracle maker of choice that can provide a defence worthy of competing with some of the top attacking footballers in the world at a fraction of cost?[/quote]
Not criticizing at all, I am merely stating a fact that there is an obvious problem with the workings of our defense ! As for a solution, I would take a long hard look at what the defense coach is up to ! :huh:[/quote]
As long as that involved Caldwell taking a long walk to any other club, sounds good
You can bet Martinez’s meeting next Monday is about one thing and one thing only “Next season’s budget”.
With so many players either out of contract or ready to jump ship to bigger and better things we could need anything up to 12 players.If the money ain’t there then why should Martinez stop ?. Whelan need’s to take that one last big gamble and put the money down and feck to budgets but my head say’s he won’t.
And if he doesn’t and Martinez does go ? God help the next guy, he’ll have weeks to rebuild a side unless he’s already here.So on that note Graeme Jones would probably be Whelan’s choice, just for the simple reason he know’s the club and right now we don’t have time to rebuild. But if things were to totally change then Jamie Carragher, nevermind stats and coaching till the cows come home , there’s alot to be said about player respect within the game and her might stop us leaking goals for fun.
You can bet Martinez’s meeting next Monday is about one thing and one thing only “Next season’s budget”.
With so many players either out of contract or ready to jump ship to bigger and better things we could need anything up to 12 players.If the money ain’t there then why should Martinez stop ?. Whelan need’s to take that one last big gamble and put the money down and feck to budgets but my head say’s he won’t.
And if he doesn’t and Martinez does go ? God help the next guy, he’ll have weeks to rebuild a side unless he’s already here.So on that note Graeme Jones would probably be Whelan’s choice, just for the simple reason he know’s the club and right now we don’t have time to rebuild. But if things were to totally change then Jamie Carragher, nevermind stats and coaching till the cows come home , there’s alot to be said about player respect within the game and her might stop us leaking goals for fun.
Big Ron making a comeback.
You can bet Martinez’s meeting next Monday is about one thing and one thing only “Next season’s budget”.
With so many players either out of contract or ready to jump ship to bigger and better things we could need anything up to 12 players.If the money ain’t there then why should Martinez stop ?. Whelan need’s to take that one last big gamble and put the money down and feck to budgets but my head say’s he won’t.
And if he doesn’t and Martinez does go ? God help the next guy, he’ll have weeks to rebuild a side unless he’s already here.So on that note Graeme Jones would probably be Whelan’s choice, just for the simple reason he know’s the club and right now we don’t have time to rebuild. But if things were to totally change then Jamie Carragher, nevermind stats and coaching till the cows come home , there’s alot to be said about player respect within the game and her might stop us leaking goals for fun.
Why should Whelan invest any more money?
The club posted a profit last year, so why would anyone want it taking going straight back into debt again?
Big Ron making a comeback.
He already sits just behind Griff by all accounts.[/quote]
They are certainly both cut from the same cloth, it would appear. Hopefully, the Championhsip won’t appeal to racists
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