if/when we go down……

Jewell got lucky as a manager and we got lucky as supporters
Dave Whelan bankrolled our much sought after promotion from the 3rd division (now league 1) and our very much unexpected and very premature promotion from the Championship to the Premier League
Jewell’s true credentials have been found out since leaving Wigan
Hard to think of any realistic managerial options who would be able to do much better for us than Martinez will next season whichever division we are in[/quote]

I would be hard pressed to think of anyone who would do a worse job.[/quote]

Yet another example of the sneery, glib, non-sensical, non-amusing remark that naffs people people off about the anti-Martinez brigade. Come up with some realistic alternative solutions to our current predicament and I’m sure there’ll be a reasoned debate. You may even find that we on the light side of the fence actually agree with many of your concerns. But we’ll never really know because you never seem interested in presenting them in a rational manner

On or backwards ?

Let’s not forget the days of hoof ball in final 5 mins with de vos employed as target man. Take away Ellington and Roberts combo, I cannot see what jewell would bring to us now.

In my eyes we have better in Martinez. Jewell had better players at his disposal yet performed far worse.

….and there we have it Griff – but we (the lightside) are more concerned about how the club is, it’s condition and it’s future. I gave a personal analogy recently about our Maude….married for years but she has her faults (as do I) but I don’t continually harp on about them (nor does she)…..I can’t stand my daughters partner, but I’ve not disowned her – like Roberto says – big picture and look at the positives, however I don’t see that rational presentation coming our way any time soon.[/quote]

Mickyc we are all concerned about the club and it’s condition for the future which is why for me Bob must go. We have had very few positives in nearly 3 seasons and looking at the bigger picture we are in a worse position than when Bob arrived. I just don’t see how you can still think Bob is the man for the job and as you do could you answer these questions.

If the club has no money we have to sign bargain basement players how can these be expected to play Bob’s passing style???

If a team is struggling for goals why continually play with one striker???

Who at the club thinks Gohouri and Caldwell are footballers???

Why play the same boring passing for passings sake style when it’s obvious it doesn’t work with the players we have???

If Bob is building a squad which he claims is the best we have ever had are we bottom of the league and can’t beat Swindon in the cup???

Why buy players then never play them???

And the last one how long do we give Bob to turn things around???

….and there we have it Griff – but we (the lightside) are more concerned about how the club is, it’s condition and it’s future. I gave a personal analogy recently about our Maude….married for years but she has her faults (as do I) but I don’t continually harp on about them (nor does she)…..I can’t stand my daughters partner, but I’ve not disowned her – like Roberto says – big picture and look at the positives, however I don’t see that rational presentation coming our way any time soon.[/quote]

Micky, in my opinion, the real problem we have on this site is there are many who judge all purely from what they see in and around ninety minutes of football.

I know all is not going well on the pitch, or we wouldn’t be in the position we are in. I am not, however, going to be drawn into the view that all things Wigan Athletic are bad at present, because, they’re not.

Martinez is currently being ridiculed for his signings, his choice of formation, his player selection, his substitutions, his style of play, his pre and post-match comments, his lack of a team talk, his perceived lack of emotion, his lack of ambition, his lack of discipline over the players, his lack of flexibility, a poor result for the Youth Team, a poor season for the Development Squad, and on occasion, his choice of vocabulary printed in the national media.

With so many faults, I don’t know how the man sleeps at night. His choice of shoes and scarf are so far unscathed, however, another couple of defeats could change that.

I am aware of what has been done behind the scenes at the club since Martinez took charge, and I’ll support the club with Martinez in charge. If someone wants to dispute what developments there have been within the club since Martinez took up the position, or the respective merits of those developments, then that’s their prerogative – and to be honest, I really can’t be bothered arguing the toss with them anymore.

I consider the development of young players and local talent, the club’s perception and standing in the local community, and the club’s financial stability as primary objectives, with success on the football field as secondary. (Ask the supporters of Darlington what they’d prefer)

Some may see that as the wrong attitude, but unless a club like Wigan is financially stable, and has the ability to produce its own players – with some of them being from the local community, success on the pitch is a bonus. Without a football club there would be nowhere for success to happen anyway.[/quote]

Apart from cutting the wage bill which needed to be done I’m not seeing any progress from within the club at all. The first team is struggling the reserves are doing poorly and the youths got walloped 9-1 by Notts County. And before you come back with Rome wasn’t built in a day we already had a youth team before Bob arrived.

How long does he need as i don’t know of any other manager who would have got away with the results he has for nearly 3 seasons.

I’m not going into vast detail Hindley, but in a nutshell, the idea of the Youth and development Squads is to churn out footballers – not merely to win games. More emphasis is put into technical ability and turning them into a better player, as that’s the way you attract young players to the club.

As I said to Tyldesley last week, nobody mentioned what the Development Squad did last season – Played 20, Won 9, Drawn 4, Lost 7. They beat Arsenal, Man City, Everton, Blackburn, Wolves, Newcastle, Bolton, Aston Villa and Blackpool

Under Martinez there’s focus on youth development. Bruce all but disbanded the youth development programme, as he wanted his focus to be on the first team. When kids got too old for the Youth Team, there was no academy and as the ‘Reserves’ was literally first team players in reserve, the kids just got released. Now they are actually nurtured, and if they’ve reached a sufficient standard, they’ll be offered a professional contract, then either make it into the first team, or be sold on for a profit.

And yes, it is in its infancy still. It’s just over two years since the wheels were put in motion, so if a kid started when he was sixteen, he’s still only eighteen now.

Anyway, I’m being drawn into an argument I’ve had before. If you want to dispute all of this, so be it. I’ll retain my own opinions.

Edit: Didn’t see your post Micky. Thank you for your kind words sir.

Good post Phil. I will buy you that pint after all.

If only some of the ‘darker’ thinkers had said something like this some time ago….we would have saved a lot of heartache and unnecessary bickering. As Griff said earlier “the lightside do share some concerns” and as Standish so eloquently debated we still have a big picture to fulfil….and there have been some good counters from those who see ‘the problems’ and that it all could go wrong. However, what you now say has restored a little bit of balance and maybe, just maybe, we can all get behind the club and show them that whatever the outcome at the end of the season we will all still be there.

Well said Phil.