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After last night, even the most loyal Martinez fan must see that he has no idea. I understand that everyone will say give him time etc but time will not sort out his lack of knowledge on tactics.
We have a striker on the bench (Moreno) who has a good reputation and played him for a full 9 minutes. We brought on a terrible player at premier league level in Gomez instead of the so called brightest young player in English football (Moses) and Martinez’s team talk killed the team at half time. Gomez showed in 30 minutes last night exactly how poor at this level he really is.
It was clear to me last night that he has lost the dressing room and to be fair he lost a lot of the fans last night.
We have lost the winning mentality under Martinez, lost the passion, lost the pride and I am afraid its looking like we are going to lose the fight for survival under him.
“It’s always disappointing when you take the lead and can’t get the three points but it’s another point, that’s the way we’re thinking this stage. This is a quote from the BBC sport website from last night.
Is this man real???????
the minute he brought Gomez on was the defining moment
make no mistake at this moment he lost the fans
After last night, even the most loyal Martinez fan must see that he has no idea. I understand that everyone will say give him time etc but time will not sort out his lack of knowledge on tactics.We have a striker on the bench (Moreno) who has a good reputation and played him for a full 9 minutes. We brought on a terrible player at premier league level in Gomez instead of the so called brightest young player in English football (Moses) and Martinez’s team talk killed the team at half time. Gomez showed in 30 minutes last night exactly how poor at this level he really is.
It was clear to me last night that he has lost the dressing room and to be fair he lost a lot of the fans last night.
We have lost the winning mentality under Martinez, lost the passion, lost the pride and I am afraid its looking like we are going to lose the fight for survival under him.
“It’s always disappointing when you take the lead and can’t get the three points but it’s another point, that’s the way we’re thinking this stage. This is a quote from the BBC sport website from last night.
Is this man real???????
Some fair, if a little hysterical, points but tell me this please… When, apart from under Jewell in the first half of the first season in the Premier League, have we had a winning mentality?
Where you get he’s lost the dressing room?
First half we were brilliant. Ran Stoke off the park
it became evident that latics tired far to early after the first half
bombardment.
I believe McCarthy came off because he was tired and so did scotland
correct Martinez got it wrong bringing gomez on
it should have swapped like for likethe place where we are suffering is cover for our full backs bombing forward
nobody is covering them. Figs was out of position on sat and last night for the goals. Probably his instructions but nobody is covering him
can’t kill a game off either when we are well on topI was upset as anyone last night but looked at the table this morning and it’s not all bad.
Our game in hand is Bolton at home.
It’s not all doom and gloom.It’ll come!!!
Doom and gloom merchants. I actually have a different take on this…
We were excellent first half and if it wasn’t for some very good defensive blocks by Stoke, we would have been a couple up. We should have killed the game off in the first half!
Second half – If McCarthy came out of the tunnel without an injury, we would have won the game, but he didn’t. Martinez then has the problem of replacing McCarthy…but who does he choose??
Moses – not a midfield player who will go putting tackles in and finding the defining passes
Stojkovic – goalkeeper
Melchiot – not a midfield player
Thomas – A ball winner…but we already have Sharner and Diame on the pitch
Gomez – A midfielder with potential to tackle and seek a pass but is struggling with form
Sinclair – I really don’t know what to make of this lad…
Moreno – not a midfield player who will go putting tackles in and finding the defining passesShuffling the pack a little was probably something to do with this?? I think Bob would have been a bit nervous and try an play it safe. If we had won the last 3 games then he would have probably put Moses on and moved things around to be a bit more attacking…but with Stoke pressing, we didn’t want to loose the game.
I think Bob knows what he needs in the summer. We have bought some firepower, some defence (which is really starting to take shape and work – Caldwell and Bramble work!) He now knows that Gomez is struggling so he will get another “McCarthy” and release Koumas (another creative midfield failure)
I really see us progressing…make no mistake, if Bruce would have been in charge, we would be very close (in either direction) to where we are now. Some people are really disillusioned on here.
Think if you were a Burnly fan (a club who is almost identical to us in regards to support and resources) just brought in Brian Laws and haven’t won a game yet, or Owen Coyle with notlob…won nowt, Wolves – beaten 2-0 by us at their place, or Portsmouth – at the bottom with a winding up order, or Sunderland, 40,000 fans promised the world at the beginning of the season and are down in the thick of it with us.
WE ARE NOT REAL MADRID OR MAN U……
Agree with Wilmslow, good post.
We are not that far away from stringing a couple of results together. We seem to have stemmed the tide a little bit in terms of our leaky defence, and we are creating chances.
If we were getting well beaten and not picking up any points I would be worried, but we still have that game in hand next week and more options in the final third, once the new lads have had a chance to settle.
We WILL turn the corner and everyone needs to get right behind the team.
Gomez was woeful last night and it can’t be long before young Moses is given his head ahead of this muppet. I don’t think I have ever seen a player who is so weak physically and so slow. You compare him to other little guys like Messi and Deco. They don’t have lightning pace, but at least they don’t get knocked off the ball and they are midgets. Admittedly, Gomez hasn’t got half their skill, but even so.
I must say I think Diame is coming into his own right now. Is it me, or did he seem to come out of his shell a bit more playing without Thomas at the start of the game?
Agree with some of what Jimmy says, but saying that Gomez has the “potential to tackle” was going a step too far. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love the lad to come good and prove himself. But he doens’t look up to Premiership standard, I’m afraid.
And how may I ask, are we progressing? (I’d like to think we are, too, but….)
I actually saw nothing last night that was any different than from the rest of the season. Lots of huffing and puffing, and in generally being alright in the first half. Then coming out for the second half, and and from 60-70 minutes, allowing the opponents to ‘up it’ a level or two, and come back into the game.
We are in deep trouble, make no mistake. But you make a good point about the other struggling sides. They may be our saviour, this season. And why Burnley panicked and appointed Laws, is beyond me. (I expected them to approach Jewell) But they HAVE actually won a game, Jimmy. They beat West Ham on Saturday. Hull are looking more capable, as well, having beat City last week. I think unless we pick a minimum of 3 points from the next two games (Bolton and Spurs, both at home) we will go down. Because if we get dragged down into the bottom 3, I don’t think we’ll get out.
Good point that VAT
if we drop into the bottom 3 – has the team / squad got the battle and or desire in them to fight their way out
Fair points, Jimmy.
I am very pro-Martinez and pro the way he clearly wants to play. However, he doesn’t help himself sometimes, case in point being bringing on Gomez (who I am also a fan of but he who is really testing my loyalty at the moment!) in the position he did.
I actually disagree with you slightly in that I think he could have put Melchiot on that right side last night, given the game situation at the time. It was crying out for a bit of a physical presence and experience but with the best will in the world, Gomez is not going to offer that.
On Gomez and the accusations of his crab-like passing, I was interested to observe wild and hysterical booing and jeering when at one point, having been given the ball in a very tight suitiation with no-one showing for him in an advanced position, he played the ball back to Bramble to retain posession. Two minutes later, Scharner did exactly the same thing, even though there were forward options open, yet he was roundly applauded.
Now I know that Gomez has a tendancy to do this quite frequently and maybe Scharner isn’t guilty of it as often, but there seems to be a trend for people to be constantly watching and picking out every single perceived error made by Scotland and Gomez and ignoring some of those made by other players.
This particularly applies to the two extremely annoying women sat behind me who clearly have no football-related comment to make at all, save for stringing the words “Scotland”, “Gomez” and “clueless” in the same sentence. No issue with that particualrly, provided they had another record to play every now and again. That said, their presence at the stadium should really be confined to the laundry room, washing the kit. Not even worth a sh@g, either.
Fair points, Jimmy.I am very pro-Martinez and pro the way he clearly wants to play. However, he doesn’t help himself sometimes, case in point being bringing on Gomez (who I am also a fan of but he who is really testing my loyalty at the moment!) in the position he did.
I actually disagree with you slightly in that I think he could have put Melchiot on that right side last night, given the game situation at the time. It was crying out for a bit of a physical presence and experience but with the best will in the world, Gomez is not going to offer that.
On Gomez and the accusations of his crab-like passing, I was interested to observe wild and hysterical booing and jeering when at one point, having been given the ball in a very tight suitiation with no-one showing for him in an advanced position, he played the ball back to Bramble to retain posession. Two minutes later, Scharner did exactly the same thing, even though there were forward options open, yet he was roundly applauded.
Now I know that Gomez has a tendancy to do this quite frequently and maybe Scharner isn’t guilty of it as often, but there seems to be a trend for people to be constantly watching and picking out every single perceived error made by Scotland and Gomez and ignoring some of those made by other players.
This particularly applies to the two extremely annoying women sat behind me who clearly have no football-related comment to make at all, save for stringing the words “Scotland”, “Gomez” and “clueless” in the same sentence. No issue with that particualrly, provided they had another record to play every now and again. That said, their presence at the stadium should really be confined to the laundry room, washing the kit. Not even worth a sh@g, either.
Griff, I walked into the stand last night, and was immediately greeted by the blokes who sit near us moaning “Bloody Scotland’s playing!, etc etc”. I just turned around and said, “Look, it’s no good moaning to each other about it. Do you think Martinez or Whelan would listen to us about team selection? No.”
When you walk on the ground and peoples chins are already on the floor, it’s coming to something. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it like that, at this ground. Springfield? Yes.
I also really feel that Roberto is trying the patience of most fans, and has lost a lot of the support, now. All S/T holders near me, and it’s clearly he’s lost them.
first half we was good second back to normal ,truth is we are going down and why ,because we are shite. ;)
Fair points, Jimmy.I am very pro-Martinez and pro the way he clearly wants to play. However, he doesn’t help himself sometimes, case in point being bringing on Gomez (who I am also a fan of but he who is really testing my loyalty at the moment!) in the position he did.
I actually disagree with you slightly in that I think he could have put Melchiot on that right side last night, given the game situation at the time. It was crying out for a bit of a physical presence and experience but with the best will in the world, Gomez is not going to offer that.
On Gomez and the accusations of his crab-like passing, I was interested to observe wild and hysterical booing and jeering when at one point, having been given the ball in a very tight suitiation with no-one showing for him in an advanced position, he played the ball back to Bramble to retain posession. Two minutes later, Scharner did exactly the same thing, even though there were forward options open, yet he was roundly applauded.
Now I know that Gomez has a tendancy to do this quite frequently and maybe Scharner isn’t guilty of it as often, but there seems to be a trend for people to be constantly watching and picking out every single perceived error made by Scotland and Gomez and ignoring some of those made by other players.
This particularly applies to the two extremely annoying women sat behind me who clearly have no football-related comment to make at all, save for stringing the words “Scotland”, “Gomez” and “clueless” in the same sentence. No issue with that particualrly, provided they had another record to play every now and again. That said, their presence at the stadium should really be confined to the laundry room, washing the kit. Not even worth a sh@g, either.
Agree with eveything you are saying there. Was a bloke sat behind me yesterday making constant comments regarding ‘Scocklund’ and how bad he was, and he was also pronouncing every players name incorrectly. Really doing my nut in. He also made a comment about every pass that was made etc :evil: … N’zogbia is a different class.
Zog is a different class, but I feel he does tend to be a bit greedy at times.
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