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And in that one short post you have proven that you will pounce upon anything you feel will start a cyber fight…..
So, in response, yes you can judge whether a player has adapted to the pace and physical aspects of the British game by watching him in so few matches.
Adaptation is an an ongoing process, where you can see the progress from game to game. It’s the same as judging how a player is recovering from an injury.
Boselli wasn’t used to the pace or physical nature of the British game, and wasn’t showing any signs of developing quickly enough – and that was the opinion of Martinez .
Judging a player’s ability from so few game is totally different matter altogether. You simply cannot say a player is poor by watching so few games.
It has been stated on numerous occasions that it was the player and his agent who engineered a move to Genoa, and Martinez confirmed this in his recent Q&A session. To me that would suggest it is not the manager who doesn’t rate him.
And no, it’s not surprising that plenty of Latics fans don’t rate him either considering there are plenty of them that think Dave Whelan pockets all the money received from player sales, N’ Zogbia plays on the ‘wrong wing’ and 4-4-2 will solve everything.
It was no more an attempt by me to “pounce upon anything” just to “start a cyber fight” than your post dragging up stats was on the other poster – it would be interesting to note how Boselli’s stats at Genoa add to the debate like.
IMO I don’t feel you can make a statement that you can’t judge a players ability on so few games & then make your own judgement call – regardless of whether its on different areas of his ability, just because you think its okay to judge those areas & not others
Just my own opinion like but I think its a case of double standards
Personally I don’t think 9 games is enough to prove either way whether Boselli can adapt to this leagues pace/power etc.. just as it isn’t enough to show whether (if he gets the chances) he is good enough in front of goal – he didn’t look much cop from the little I saw of him but I’d no more write him off than I’d say I’m sure he’s got it in him to be a success. My point was that he dropped so quickly out of Bobby’s plans that you can’t blame others for saying they think he’s sh iteWith regards to whether Boselli engineered the move to genoa I’d just say:
1) if it is true then, if Bobby thought he was good enough to make a contribution to the rest of that season he could have just said no to it. Simple as – but he didn’t & that to me suggests a manager that doesn’t rate him
2) Bobby has said plenty of things at these Q&A sessions that is about as believable as some of the things Dave Whelan comes out with. I’ll not list em all but one that springs to mind is him saying that he only ever intended to ease Scotland & Gomez into action in his first season but due to the poor quality of the squad already here he had to chuck em in at the deep end & they weren’t ready. This coming just months after signing them both to great fanfare & saying Gomez would be the creative hub of his team & scotland would have no trouble adapting to the top flight. Just coz Bobby says it doesn’t make it soYep there are plenty at latics who make some bizarre judgement calls (there are even some idiots who didn’t think Bobby had it in him to keep Latics up last season ;)
) – but I really do think in this instance that the managers actions (as does Genoa’s “you can have him back thanks” attitude) indicate that he realises he bought a duff un in Boselli (whether that’s just coz he’s plain sh ite or doesn’t fit with our style or he can’t adapt to England & the style of football)Really cant see how you can compare boselli to rodney when boselli as only made 9 apperances in the 1st team in his 1st season and rodney has been an ever presance in the 1st team for last 3 plus seasons.How many strikers go through a baron patch ( e.g 50 mil torres ) and on top of this he needs time to adapt and settle in.I will say again i myself dont think he has had a fair crack of the whip.So do you think hes had a fair crack of the whip?
I”ll get my tin hat outTydlesley, you’ve missed the point completely. It’s a bit of difference in saying after 9 games:
‘He doesn’t seem to have adapted to the British game yet’
and
‘He isn’t good enough’
And that is the crux of this argument.
Adaptation is an ongoing process and you can tell immediately if a player has not yet adapted to the rigours of the British game as he’ll regularly be knocked off the ball, caught in possession etc. You cannot tell immediately if he’s a good player or not – that takes time.
If it’s not a case of adapting, and is more a case of ability, then that must mean the likes of Blackpool and Wolves have a better standard of player than teams in Argentina.
Do you really think so? No. Therefore I conclude that it was more a case of needing to adapt than a question of ability.
Will he ever adapt? Who knows?
Do he have the necessary ability? He clearly knows where the goal is and being called up to the Argentina team means he must be at least half decent.
Whether you believe what Martinez says in his Q&A session is your decision – however judging a couple of Boselli touchline tantrums at not being brought on as a sub during games, I’d guess that there was a modicum of truth in his move being engineered by himself and his agent – and if you have an unhappy player on your books, why would you want to keep him when you can at least get someone to pay his wages?
You can all say what you want and its a game of opinions but to me he looked completely out of his depth. Runs like he’s shit himself. Cant hold a ball up. Didn’t create many opportunities for himself as made predictable runs in most of the games he played. Cant head it. Got bullied by centre halves every time he played and though he may not have made many starts if you wanna play the stats game in European games he has scored 7 in 40 starts so far which is poor.
He made few starts cos he was so poor which is why in a season we were struggling we shipped him off on loan. We could have said No!
Eeeerm i only posted this thread to highlight the fact that we were in for a striker. But on the subject of Boselli, Looks as though he is going to Estudiantes anyway so we will never know.
I have to disagree with you bigroy on some points and agree with you on others, I agree with the fact he cant create opportunities for himself because he is too slow in this league but i think it is unfair to say he is out of his depth after 9 starts or whatever it is when we were playing woeful as a team. Scotland was out of his depth after 1 goal in a full season but Boselli is well regarded as one of the best in recent years in the Argentinian league. I think you miss the point people are trying to make. He is a finisher, Nothing else, And given the chance and good service he will(would have) finished. I will throw a name into the pan here. Ruud Van Nistelrooy could not score outside of the box, Could not head a ball, Had no pace and shot on sight. He cost about 19m i think and did the same job Boselli was brought in to do. Stick him in United’s side he will bag up to 20 goals a season. He has it in him but whether he gets a proper chance is another question. Looks academical now though, Don’t think he will be here.
Tydlesley, you’ve missed the point completely. It’s a bit of difference in saying after 9 games:‘He doesn’t seem to have adapted to the British game yet’
and
‘He isn’t good enough’
And that is the crux of this argument.
Adaptation is an ongoing process and you can tell immediately if a player has not yet adapted to the rigours of the British game as he’ll regularly be knocked off the ball, caught in possession etc. You cannot tell immediately if he’s a good player or not – that takes time.
If it’s not a case of adapting, and is more a case of ability, then that must mean the likes of Blackpool and Wolves have a better standard of player than teams in Argentina.
Do you really think so? No. Therefore I conclude that it was more a case of needing to adapt than a question of ability.
Will he ever adapt? Who knows?
Do he have the necessary ability? He clearly knows where the goal is and being called up to the Argentina team means he must be at least half decent.
Whether you believe what Martinez says in his Q&A session is your decision – however judging a couple of Boselli touchline tantrums at not being brought on as a sub during games, I’d guess that there was a modicum of truth in his move being engineered by himself and his agent – and if you have an unhappy player on your books, why would you want to keep him when you can at least get someone to pay his wages?
I do get what you’re trying to say with regards to adapting & not being good enough
There are however many who would argue that the 2 are pretty closely linked. I’d also disagree that you can’t tell whether a player isn’t good enough after 9 games – if Bobby sends a scout to watch a player, I’m guessing that if the scout doesn’t feel he’s good enough then it doesn’t even take 9 games never mind a full season of games for the scout to make up his mindDo i think that Wolves & Blackpool have a better standard of player than those in Argentina? You answered no for me but I’d argue that the standard of the British top flight is better (on the whole) than its Argentinian counterpart so there’s every chance that he was coming up against some players who were better than he was used to (& no doubt some who were worse)
I wouldn’t necessarily use the fact that he was called up for Argentina in what was basically a 3rd choice team as a yardstick that he has what it takes. In my years of watching England I can think of many players who were called up who weren’t good enough (Michael Ricketts??). I aint saying that he doesn’t have what it takes but 1 call up for a severely weakened squad doesn’t say a great deal
I would also argue that the english top flight is littered with players who have had a great season & then gone on to prove it was really a bit of a flash in the pan. Looking at Boselli his record prior to the season before we signed him isn’t anything to shout about – 5 goals in 32 games in the Spanish 2nd division. 10 goals in 3 seasons for Boca Juniors. His 10 in almost 30 games for Estudiantes in the 08/09 season is nowt better than averageAs I’ve said I am not saying he is or isn’t good enough but a call up for Argentina & 1 really good goal scoring season are in his favour when saying he must have somet but his other stats at 5 clubs over 6 seasons seem to show that he really may not have what it takes
Time will tellI do think you have to pick players on their own merits, Michael Owen is useless outside the box, Dare i say it, not even league one standard at the moment but Fergie signed him because he can finish, And finish well, As could Marcus Stewart, A superb finisher never got anywhere because he played for Ipswich.
I do not want to ridicule your opposition of the England team but we are littered with failures who performed at the highest level, (and when we were supposed to be world class) Ian Wright, Chris Sutton, Dean Holdsworth and Andy Cole were the best English of the 90s and 2000s and did hot get a sniff, If a player can finish, he can finish, Get the service and watch the rest.
Seems i was right about the Al-Habsi and Boselli transfers, and within about only a day or so of each being completed, , Watch out for Nelson Valdes, He is the next signing, Unless Wright-Phillips arrives on loan
News: Nelson Valdez is set to shun a move to Wigan with the Hercules attacker keen to stay in Spain.
) – but I really do think in this instance that the managers actions (as does Genoa’s “you can have him back thanks” attitude) indicate that he realises he bought a duff un in Boselli (whether that’s just coz he’s plain sh ite or doesn’t fit with our style or he can’t adapt to England & the style of football)
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