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Unlike other countries who are ruled by evil despots the North Koreans will never ever rise up against him no matter what he does.
They simply don’t know any better. The masses will continue to obediently wave the red flag , brainwashed by a lifetime of propaganda from the state.
I suppose it’s a bit like over here with the BBC.
Tyldsley, the new estimated figure of 20 million has only just been announced, in the last few months.I have studied the Holocaust for years now, yet I am still learning about new camps that existed that I have never heard of before. From France, right across to as far as Romania and the former Yugoslavia, there were camps of all different sizes and purposes. There were ‘Zwangarbeitlager’ camps that were principally forced labour camps, operating factories and industries that helped the German war effort. The biggest of these operations was at Auschwitz III, ‘Monowitz-Buna’, where German industrial companies such as I.G. Farben, Siemens, Bayer, Krupps, etc used forced labour. Several of these companies are still in existence today.
Then there were the ‘death centres’, such as Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz-Birkenau. 80 percent of new arrivals at these camps went straight to ‘sonderbehandlung’, or rather ‘special treatment’, in the gas chambers.
But its the sub camps where the mystery lies, and a lot of the time, as brutal as these larger centres were, when you research the smaller camps, the crimes and details can be even more appalling.
And I was specifically talking about the jewish victims. There were plenty more non Jewish victims as well. Gypsies, Homosexuals, Religious figures, Political prisoners who were seen as a ‘threat to the Reich’, etc. Nobody will actually ever know the exact figure of Holocaust victims.
To anybody who doubts it happened, I definitely recommend a trip to Auschwitz Birkenau. The vastness of the place alone, is staggering.
I think we’ve seen the same things that has been announced recently (I saw it in early March) but it didn’t say that 20 million jews had been murdered or that 20 million people/total had been murdered/died in concentration camps – death camps or work camps.
The guy from the sudy I read about said “as many as 15-20 million people may have been sent to OR died in the network of concentration camps”The figures for Jews murdered & some of it is guesswork & comes from data with “gaps” is about 6million & that figure can be found in Jewish based holocaust literature or on jewish based websites. It wasn’t 20 million as official figures show there were around just under 9million jews in europe before the start of WWII with nearly 2.5million of those living in 2 areas (Russia & Ukraine) that the Nazi’s never occupied fully
My point about being careful about banding about figures (& I mean those recent researchers & not yourself) is that holocaust deniers pounce on anything with even an iota of iffyness about it – Not too long ago the generally agreed figure of deaths at the Auschwitz complex was about 4million (which was what it said on the plaques now located at the memorial in the main Birkenau camp) & then this figure was quietly dropped down to 1.5mill & the plaques changes. Like I say errors like that give ammo to idiots who pounce on errors like that as “proof” it didn’t happen whilst ignoring the mounds of evidence that it did. Even a former holocaust denier like Nick Griffin will now state that he agrees it did happen but (as he said on his question time appearance) his dispute is with the numbers.
Like you it’s somet I’ve studied & read about & visited (Auschwitz) – going up that main watchtower at Birkenau like you say & being able to view from above the sheer scale of the place is staggering.
I’m travelling to Italy later this year & am stopping in Turkheim (France) on the way. Discovered the other week that close by is the site of the only known concentration camp in France so I shall be giving that one a shufty – might keep it quiet from the wife & kids though as I think they’re expecting vineyards & the alps!!
Tyldsley, the new estimated figure of 20 million has only just been announced, in the last few months.
I have studied the Holocaust for years now, yet I am still learning about new camps that existed that I have never heard of before. From France, right across to as far as Romania and the former Yugoslavia, there were camps of all different sizes and purposes. There were ‘Zwangarbeitlager’ camps that were principally forced labour camps, operating factories and industries that helped the German war effort. The biggest of these operations was at Auschwitz III, ‘Monowitz-Buna’, where German industrial companies such as I.G. Farben, Siemens, Bayer, Krupps, etc used forced labour. Several of these companies are still in existence today.
Then there were the ‘death centres’, such as Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz-Birkenau. 80 percent of new arrivals at these camps went straight to ‘sonderbehandlung’, or rather ‘special treatment’, in the gas chambers.
But its the sub camps where the mystery lies, and a lot of the time, as brutal as these larger centres were, when you research the smaller camps, the crimes and details can be even more appalling.
And I was specifically talking about the jewish victims. There were plenty more non Jewish victims as well. Gypsies, Homosexuals, Religious figures, Political prisoners who were seen as a ‘threat to the Reich’, etc. Nobody will actually ever know the exact figure of Holocaust victims.
To anybody who doubts it happened, I definitely recommend a trip to Auschwitz Birkenau. The vastness of the place alone, is staggering.
I think we’ve seen the same things that has been announced recently (I saw it in early March) but it didn’t say that 20 million jews had been murdered or that 20 million people/total had been murdered/died in concentration camps – death camps or work camps.
The guy from the sudy I read about said “as many as 15-20 million people may have been sent to OR died in the network of concentration camps”The figures for Jews murdered & some of it is guesswork & comes from data with “gaps” is about 6million & that figure can be found in Jewish based holocaust literature or on jewish based websites. It wasn’t 20 million as official figures show there were around just under 9million jews in europe before the start of WWII with nearly 2.5million of those living in 2 areas (Russia & Ukraine) that the Nazi’s never occupied fully
My point about being careful about banding about figures (& I mean those recent researchers & not yourself) is that holocaust deniers pounce on anything with even an iota of iffyness about it – Not too long ago the generally agreed figure of deaths at the Auschwitz complex was about 4million (which was what it said on the plaques now located at the memorial in the main Birkenau camp) & then this figure was quietly dropped down to 1.5mill & the plaques changes. Like I say errors like that give ammo to idiots who pounce on errors like that as “proof” it didn’t happen whilst ignoring the mounds of evidence that it did. Even a former holocaust denier like Nick Griffin will now state that he agrees it did happen but (as he said on his question time appearance) his dispute is with the numbers.
Like you it’s somet I’ve studied & read about & visited (Auschwitz) – going up that main watchtower at Birkenau like you say & being able to view from above the sheer scale of the place is staggering.
I’m travelling to Italy later this year & am stopping in Turkheim (France) on the way. Discovered the other week that close by is the site of the only known concentration camp in France so I shall be giving that one a shufty – might keep it quiet from the wife & kids though as I think they’re expecting vineyards & the alps!![/quote]Would that be Natszwiler Concentration Camp, not far off Strasbourg, I think, Tyldsley?
It’s built on a hillside. Fences, gallows, and watchtowers remain, as do some barracks, though most are just represented now by their foundations.
I’ve been to a few, including Auschwitz-Birkenau, Sachsenhausen, Theresienstadt, and Plaszow. Been around the latter, Plaszow, or rather the site of where it was, a few times. Not much to see there now, a few fences, some ruined buildings. Commandant Amon Goeth’s villa still stands, though its in serious decay. His balcony is still there, as featured in ‘Schindler’s List’. It’s quite erie, more than anything. Auschwitz-Birkenau is the most evil place on earth. If scientists did a study, I bet there is human DNA all over that place.
Out of all the possible angst-ridden dictators and dictatorships in the world today, the Koreans scare the absolute shit out of me. Really they do.
Have you seen their army parades on TV? That bouncy march they all do? Christ, they must be fit as anything to do that. And if any nation on earth appears closest to pressing that big red button, it’s North Korea.
South Korea, I like. Technologically advanced and very willing to contribute to the global economy through commerce such as the motor trade. (think Daewoo, Kia, etc) Oh and the Gangnam Style. But seriously, those lot over the border? No, they absolutely shit me up.
Ok, I don’t lose sleep over them. But it’s worrying how some whimsical, egotistical, megalomaniac dictator of a nation that is communist and brainwashed since birth, secretive, and clearly with a very powerful nuclear ability and presence, seems to be edging nearer and nearer to conflict, firstly with the South, South Korea, but then next in the line are the Yanks. Then if that all kicks off nobody is too sure of China’s stance (more communists), Russia’s stance, etc. Good old Britain will just follow America, despite the fact that we have cut our armed forces drasticallyn and are in now way prepared for a major new conflict. We are just about pulling out of one.
WW3 on the horizon? Possibly. The fact that it IS a possibility is so, so, scary. Has nobody learned anything from previous conflicts?
They haven’t got the capabilities to do what they are threatening. It’s akin to someone shouting insults at you from a car window as they’re driving by and you’re stuck in traffic.
If the Chinese were involved, then I’d be worried. But they’re not and even they think he’s an arse.[/quote]
What, like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XKh_WGg1_c :lol:[/quote]
Exactly like that!
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