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  • #102676
    thty5yearswafctrevor hoy
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    Griff, a question. Does that point earned on Saturday keep us in with a chance of staying up in your opinion ? Because you said that if we lost you feared the worst. We almost lost, didn’t play too well for the final 30mins ( That fitness thing again ? ) and we also conceded 2 goals again at home ( av 2.07 this season ) With that in mind does that single point leave you brimming with confidence ? Just a straight question on the back of our on the way to the ground chat ! :)

    A point is better than none. I still think we have as much change of goign sdown as the other 5 teams at the bottom, maybe a couple more. By the same token, we have as much chance as them of staying up. I think teh fact that we played quite poorly yet didn’t lose is a good omen.

    And what fitness thing? the one that enabled us to equalise in the last minute of the match?[/quote]

    The fitness thing that bar that late get out of jail free card ( Pending ) had us overrun for much of the last half hour ! You should have been a politician Griff with answers like that :) ![/quote]

    As what has been quoted before when you was on your sick bed the very same team that we pinched a point off run UTD close in the second half at Old Trafford with UTD resorting to the long ball stuff

    #102677
    filmossfilmoss
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    Griff, a question. Does that point earned on Saturday keep us in with a chance of staying up in your opinion ? Because you said that if we lost you feared the worst. We almost lost, didn’t play too well for the final 30mins ( That fitness thing again ? ) and we also conceded 2 goals again at home ( av 2.07 this season ) With that in mind does that single point leave you brimming with confidence ? Just a straight question on the back of our on the way to the ground chat ! :)

    A point is better than none. I still think we have as much change of goign sdown as the other 5 teams at the bottom, maybe a couple more. By the same token, we have as much chance as them of staying up. I think teh fact that we played quite poorly yet didn’t lose is a good omen.

    And what fitness thing? the one that enabled us to equalise in the last minute of the match?[/quote]

    The fitness thing that bar that late get out of jail free card ( Pending ) had us overrun for much of the last half hour ! You should have been a politician Griff with answers like that :) ![/quote]

    As what has been quoted before when you was on your sick bed the very same team that we pinched a point off run UTD close in the second half at Old Trafford with UTD resorting to the long ball stuff[/quote]

    Are you here again ? What the fuck are you talking about ? You are like that kid at the back when the fighting starts, waiting for someone to hit the deck then you can wade in with the boot !

    #102678
    thty5yearswafctrevor hoy
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    Griff, a question. Does that point earned on Saturday keep us in with a chance of staying up in your opinion ? Because you said that if we lost you feared the worst. We almost lost, didn’t play too well for the final 30mins ( That fitness thing again ? ) and we also conceded 2 goals again at home ( av 2.07 this season ) With that in mind does that single point leave you brimming with confidence ? Just a straight question on the back of our on the way to the ground chat ! :)

    A point is better than none. I still think we have as much change of goign sdown as the other 5 teams at the bottom, maybe a couple more. By the same token, we have as much chance as them of staying up. I think teh fact that we played quite poorly yet didn’t lose is a good omen.

    And what fitness thing? the one that enabled us to equalise in the last minute of the match?[/quote]

    The fitness thing that bar that late get out of jail free card ( Pending ) had us overrun for much of the last half hour ! You should have been a politician Griff with answers like that :) ![/quote]

    As what has been quoted before when you was on your sick bed the very same team that we pinched a point off run UTD close in the second half at Old Trafford with UTD resorting to the long ball stuff[/quote]

    Are you here again ? What the fuck are you talking about ? You are like that kid at the back when the fighting starts, waiting for someone to hit the deck then you can wade in with the boot ![/quote]

    Phylis tis a forum not a closed shop

    #102685
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    If you’re talking about things on the pitch changing, then for probably the 1000th time, I would ask how on earth you and others think that with the same personnel simply changimg the way we play will immediately make the team world beaters.

    Why wouldn’t it work? It did last season!! ;) ;) :whistle:[/quote]

    Exactly, he settled on a way of playing that worked for us. We just haven’t been playing quite as well this season and the injuries, rub of the green, etc haven’t helped.

    The tacit notion, however, that other teams change their formations and style of play the first time they fail to win 8-0 is absurd.[/quote]

    I’m not saying whether he should or shouldn’t change the formation & style but I do think that just as absurd as thinking a manager should do that the first time you don’t win 8-0 is thinking that (most) Latics asking for some sort of change are doing so because we didn’t beat Southampton 8-0.
    They’re calling for it because the team has won once in 12 games. It’s not a minor blip or a freak result it is a third of the season of bad results & includes failures to beat 6 of the teams in & around us during that time.
    Last season when Bobby (finally ;) ) could see the 4-5-1 wasn’t working coz it didn’t suit his players he changed it & it worked. From the back end of the season available personnel have changed, whether that be through sales or injuries, so maybe it would work again if he changed his system to suit the players he does have available. For arguments sake, if all your experienced centre halves are inured then why persist in playing 3 centre halves in every game
    Maybe it wouldn’t work but what he is trying at the moment isn’t working either & hasn’t for the majority of the season & there is only so much of that can be blamed on bad luck, refereeing decisions & injuries

    Personally after proving me wrong for the previous 3 seasons I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but I can understand those who feel that he should change tact

    #102686
    griffChris Griffin
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    If you’re talking about things on the pitch changing, then for probably the 1000th time, I would ask how on earth you and others think that with the same personnel simply changimg the way we play will immediately make the team world beaters.

    Why wouldn’t it work? It did last season!! ;) ;) :whistle:[/quote]

    Exactly, he settled on a way of playing that worked for us. We just haven’t been playing quite as well this season and the injuries, rub of the green, etc haven’t helped.

    The tacit notion, however, that other teams change their formations and style of play the first time they fail to win 8-0 is absurd.[/quote]

    I’m not saying whether he should or shouldn’t change the formation & style but I do think that just as absurd as thinking a manager should do that the first time you don’t win 8-0 is thinking that (most) Latics asking for some sort of change are doing so because we didn’t beat Southampton 8-0.
    They’re calling for it because the team has won once in 12 games. It’s not a minor blip or a freak result it is a third of the season of bad results & includes failures to beat 6 of the teams in & around us during that time.
    Last season when Bobby (finally ;) ) could see the 4-5-1 wasn’t working coz it didn’t suit his players he changed it & it worked. From the back end of the season available personnel have changed, whether that be through sales or injuries, so maybe it would work again if he changed his system to suit the players he does have available. For arguments sake, if all your experienced centre halves are inured then why persist in playing 3 centre halves in every game
    Maybe it wouldn’t work but what he is trying at the moment isn’t working either & hasn’t for the majority of the season & there is only so much of that can be blamed on bad luck, refereeing decisions & injuries

    Personally after proving me wrong for the previous 3 seasons I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but I can understand those who feel that he should change tact[/quote]

    My comment was as tongue in cheek as yours.

    I don’t think there are any problems with the formation and style as it proved itself last season, as you say. The perfomances just haveen’t been as good and the injuries have menat that second choice players have been playing.

    The 3-4-3 imapcted maninly on the wing-backs; other than that, it isn’t a world of difference from what they were playing before.

    By the way, my comments about the magical changing of formations weren’t really aimed at you. They were aimed primarily at Mr Brownbill who still hasn’t offered any kind of alternative proposal.

    #102690
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    I know the comments weren’t really aimed at me as I’ve deliberately been avoiding the Bobby is garbage/no he isn’t arguments as a result of winding up with egg on my face for the previous 3 seasons, but I enjoy wading into a good argument & couldn’t resist getting into this one!! :evil:

    I’d argue that the change last season impacted on more than just the wing backs. Switching to 3 centre halves for a start & the way the 1/3/call it what you like up top was important to
    I’ve also argued last season that no formation is right or wrong & that the important thing is to find the one best suited to the personnel you have. Last season the 3-4-3 fitted that bill – to me that doesn’t mean it proved itself just that it worked for that set of players who were available. This season through injuries & a player sale it doesn’t work. Bobby said himself when Moses left that there was no point trying to replace him as he was unique but that it would mean changing the way the system was played but my own personal opinion is that without a Moses/N’Zogbia type player to produce tricks, moments of unpredictability & the ability to get in behind the opposition, then it doesn’t work as well.
    Where I would agree with you is that the system can’t be blamed for the absolute b0ll0xs dropped week in & week out during the game nor the loss of form of Al Habsi – for the 1st Soton goal on Saturday Scharner just stopped tracking his man & for the 2nd, as soon as the cross came in the whole defence stopped instead of the nearest man (Caldwell) attacking the ball & it allowd their scorer to make up about 8 yards on the last defender & toe poke it home. That is just rank back defending whether it comes in a 4 at the back, 3 at the back, 5 at the back or john deehan’s 6 at the back
    With the injuries though if I was a manager who played 3 centre halves & 1 or 2 of them were injured or at time 3 of my first 4 were unavailable & the others available were wet behind the ears I might look at whether I could change to a system that accomodated my fit 1st choicers without having to call on the second choicers. I think the impression Bobby gives at times with his team selections under such circumstances is that he will play that system even if it means having to put central midfielders at centre half or left wing back when another option could be to switch to 4 at the back & put an extra man in midfield/up front

    Like I said though in the past I’ve accused him of being clueless & been wrong so I’m sitting on the fence these days

    #102693
    galacTICSanjay Shah
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    4 – 4 – fcukin 2!! :whistle:

    #102711
    runcornfan1978runcornfan1978
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    I consider myself a lightsider but on this occassion, i am with filmoss on this one. I believe this is our last season in the premier league – however, i strongly believe not THE last. One day i think we will return – when, im not sure, but we’ll have our time again.

    In addition, when you look at clubs/towns the size of wigan, we tend not to stay in the premier league too long, ie; blackpool, burnley, bolton, blackburn, watford – you get the drift.

    I think we should be proud of what we as a club have achieved, how far we have come – again you get the drift. We have had 7 more seasons in the premier league than what i first anticipated. I really admire people’s optimism on here & i hope i eat humble pie at the end of the season. But, TBH even i believe its the end. :(

    #102719
    filmossfilmoss
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    I consider myself a lightsider but on this occassion, i am with filmoss on this one. I believe this is our last season in the premier league – however, i strongly believe not THE last. One day i think we will return – when, im not sure, but we’ll have our time again.

    In addition, when you look at clubs/towns the size of wigan, we tend not to stay in the premier league too long, ie; blackpool, burnley, bolton, blackburn, watford – you get the drift.

    I think we should be proud of what we as a club have achieved, how far we have come – again you get the drift. We have had 7 more seasons in the premier league than what i first anticipated. I really admire people’s optimism on here & i hope i eat humble pie at the end of the season. But, TBH even i believe its the end. :(

    Like I have tried to state, the more optimistic ones on here already accept ‘Que sara sara ‘ but still remain optimistic. I am just going off what I have seen and I am thinking realistically. It wont be the end of the World and I certainly wont be saying ” I told you so ” !

    #102722
    The EggThe Egg
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    I fear this could be the year because we just aren’t getting the rub of the green this year. I do think this group of players have the ability to pull it off though if they can cut out the silly errors.

    #102723
    thty5yearswafctrevor hoy
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    The team itself is not playing too badly apart from Saturday if people analyse the goals conceded not many teams have to work hard to score against us a lot could be said about the injury situation and that has played a big part of the problem this season as I have said before I don’t think we have had the same defensive line up for consecutive games this season to have your main center halves out for a big part of the season has not helped either

    #102725
    filmossfilmoss
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    The team itself is not playing too badly apart from Saturday if people analyse the goals conceded not many teams have to work hard to score against us a lot could be said about the injury situation and that has played a big part of the problem this season as I have said before I don’t think we have had the same defensive line up for consecutive games this season to have your main center halves out for a big part of the season has not helped either

    So perhaps a contingency plan could have been put in place whereas the back line tactics didn’t depend on 3 centre halves ! Just an idea like ! However I am not the manager and and thankfully I don’t have to accept the blame when things don’t go too well ! Unfortunately managers lose their jobs when things go pear shaped but RM finds himself in a unique position and safe, as he has a chairman who knows deep down that no manager could take this club any further with his limited resources !

    #102726
    thty5yearswafctrevor hoy
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    Correct your not the manager thank feck

    #102727
    filmossfilmoss
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    Correct your not the manager thank feck

    Great reply, well done !

    #102742
    Anonymous
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    I was going to put this in a thread of it’s own, but I think it fits in well in this one.

    The big question I would like to put forward, is……

    WHY DO WE HAVE TO PLAY A ‘SET STYLE’?

    I don’t quite get why any manager would be as rigid as Martinez is with the actual style of play they are trying to achieve. This has puzzled me since he came to us as manager.

    Surely you need to be flexible to change, depending on your opposition and their individual strengths and weaknesses? I mean, you wouldn’t try and play a ‘high ball’ game against Stoke who are all 6 foot plus in height and known for a direct ‘up and at em’ style, would you?

    And are you ever going to ‘pass’ Chelsea, etc off the park? Highly doubtful. The rigidness of our ‘style’ is, for me, our undoing. Not only is it predictable, but it is as if what you see is what you get….we don’t have a plan B. That has been evident from the start.

    It is well documented that we are striving for something along the lines of what Barcelona do. The only problem being that we are nowhere near as blessed with talent as Barcelona. Obviously. Having seen them play in the flesh last March, I could see straight away the similarities between the styles….as ridiculous as that seems, comparing Wigan Athletic to Barcelona. The difference is they have the players to play such a controlling and flamboyant style. They have the phenomenon that is Messi, and he really IS a phenomenon. Never before have I seen a player run with the ball like he does. But his first goal (out of the 5 I saw him score that night!) came from a ball over the top, which he ran onto and chipped the keeper…

    when was the last time we scored that type of goal? I can’t remember. We seem like we HAVE to try and do 20 passes before we can get near the goal. Quote an Everton fan I know, after the boxing day game at Goodison…

    “You play some good football, but you over do the passing. A few times you could have had a shot at goal, but didn’t”.

    The top and bottom of it is that I just don’t think we are especially good at playing this particular style. We have 2 major problems within our team:

    1. We concede goals far too easily. AND 2. We don’t score enough goals.

    You don’t have to be a professor to put the two together and see that it isn’t a good combination at all. We are where we are for a reason. 2 reasons, as I have stated.

    Now, where do I stand regarding our manager? Do I think he should be sacked? No, not at this time. Sacking him would not solve a thing at this time. We are stuck with the players we have got, and no way is it our ‘best squad yet’. That is a load of crap. We have some decent individuals, but as a team they are struggling to gel.

    I do think that at any other club he would’ve been sacked about 2 seasons ago, for nothing else other than poor results. (Can anyone tell me Martinez’s win percentage in his time with us?) I like the bloke, he is a nice guy and all that. However I think he will walk in the summer, whatever happens. I think it is time for him to do so. I’ve heard that Al Ahly, or whatever they are called, are going to offer him £50,000 a week to manage them….and that they want the out of contract in the summer Jordi Gomez as well. Both SHOULD go, in my opinion. Nothing angry or bitter about that, just think the summer will be time for a change.

    Hopefully we can stay up and he can walk away of his own doing, head held high.

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