- This topic has 33 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
The death is nigh apparently for the greatest sport on earth.
I am particularly interested in what the ‘break away’ would be….. didn’t that happen a long time ago… Rugby Union I think it was.
If any of you are interested(!), there is a long thread here with comments as to the background, pro’s and cons of such a move by IL:
http://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=559730&tsmp=1381346229
Personally, I feel that the governing body have failed in their duty to promote the sport, and its little wonder that the majority of the top clubs (and their fans) are fed up with the way the sport is being run.
That’s actually quite an interesting debate.
All RL fun poking aside, looking from the outside of the Rugby League bubble – my take on it is:
I think there are three salient points that some of the posters and probably some people who work in RL should come to terms with:
1. There will never be a hybrid rugby game. Rugby Union doesn’t need there to be a hybrid game so there’s no reason for them to go down that route.
2. Super League isn’t football, nor is it NRL. It does not generate the level of support or national interest required for a ‘big sponsor’ to come in and throw hundreds of millions at the sport, let alone sponsor lower leagues.
3. Trying to promote the game by implanting teams in London, France, Wales, North East etc doesn’t work. The interest in the sport is largely regional and they should concentrate on this rather than trying to make it a national sport and compete against two sports that it will never really be able to compete with.
In Irish Rugby Union, their club sides generate attendances of a thousand-ish or less per game, whereas the ‘big’ teams (ie. Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Ulster) are all provincial teams and attract the big crowds.
So the population of the towns and cities have some interest in their town teams – on an amateur basis, but their main interest is in the provincial side.
The Irish provincial sides then play in the Celtic League against clubs that have a decent level of support like Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Ospreys etc, which Irish club sides would never have the level of support or backing to do.
If that were adopted in Super League – merging small clubs to create teams like Calderdale, South Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, Cumbria, Greater Manchester etc (I’m sure someone could come up with some catchy names), you could turn many small fanbases into a few much larger fanbases and their teams could then compete on a more even keel with teams like Wigan, St Helens, Leeds and Warrington who have the fanbase and resources to operate on a stand-alone basis.
Forget trying to run three or four leagues; have one or maybe two leagues of ‘super’ clubs – similar to what the Celtic League in Rugby Union, or even what Cricket do, with town and village rugby becoming a largely amateur game.
I’m sure merging teams would have an initial outpouring of grief and refusal to accept, but they’d soon change their tune when they’re given the ultimatum of go with the changes and watch your new ‘local’ team playing in a professional league, watch amateur Rugby League, or watch Union.
It all goes against tradition and long existing rivalries, but if Rugby League continues to stick with tradition, it’ll go bust – no two ways about.
Some good points there Standish. I do think some of the smaller clubs/areas would benefit from a merger as opposed to trying to support 2 or 3 sides but imagine your reaction if we were told to merge with Bolton so we could fill a 30,000 seater stadium between us.
The big problem that RL has in my opinion is that the powers that be are too scared of upsetting the little clubs and thus punish the big clubs.
Ian Lenegan has taken some stick from Wigan fans due to the sale of some players and his voting to keep the salary cap as it is as opposed to raising it. He did that though because the smaller clubs are struggling to compete now so by giving the likes of Wigan, Leeds and Warrington even more money to spend will just widen that gap and see more clubs go bust striving to compete.
Personally I would bring a ruling in regards homegrown talent. If a club like Wakefield produce a player then they should be able to either keep that player or sell him for a substantial amount as opposed to losing him for nothing. Can you imagine if that great Utd side of Giggs, Neville, Scholes, Beckham, Butt had to be split up because Utd were broke or would break the salary cap. I’m not sure whether the way forward is to put loopholes in place for homegrown talent such as only 50% of their wage counting on the cap or bringing in a rule that any club wishing to sign them has to pay for them regardless of whether they’re under contract or not which follows the under 23 rule in football (think it’s 23 anyway). Whether you could get away with that under employment law I don’t know but I’m not sure how you get away with the salary cap either.
I am genuinely worried about the future of the game but not because of the money or the competition. The governing body are complicating a simple game with rule changes and silly ideas like the club call. They try to promote the sport and pride theirselves on the toughness of the players but then create rules that water down the toughness of the sport. My biggest worry about RL is that in 2 years time it’ll be tick and pass.
If that were adopted in Super League – merging small clubs to create teams like Calderdale, South Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, Cumbria, Greater Manchester etc (I’m sure someone could come up with some catchy names), you could turn many small fanbases into a few much larger fanbases and their teams could then compete on a more even keel with teams like Wigan, St Helens, Leeds and Warrington who have the fanbase and resources to operate on a stand-alone basis.The merging of Huddersfield & Sheffield took place in 1999. The clubs merged as Huddersfield/Sheffield Eagles, and played at Huddersfield, for all bar 2 games. Very quickly the “Sheffield” and “eagles” were quietly dropped, and they became the Huddersfield Giants. Sheffield re-formed the Eagles in Sheffield, where they still play.
Castleford & Wakefield were supposed to be merging, and fought tooth and nail to retain their individual identities. They are still in SL as stand-alone clubs, attracting crowds of around half what Wigan & Leeds get, but with the same costs wrt staff, infrastructure etc. Result is that they dont have a hope in hell of breaking into the top 5.
It was also mooted that Cumbrian clubs should merge to form one SL club. They all resisted, with the result being that all three clubs are bumping along in the lower echalons.
The RFL needs to accept that RL will never rival RU, football etc and cut its cloth accordingly. So what if its an M62-dominated sport? If the folk along the M62 like it and will go to watch it then so be it.
Whilst it may seem an insular approach, it is a far more realistic one. Wales has been tried and failed, as has London. RU has the money and the influence to crush any attempt by RL to develop in these areas, and they do just that. I compare it with opening a village store on the doorsteps of Tescos.
The merging of Huddersfield & Sheffield took place in 1999. The clubs merged as Huddersfield/Sheffield Eagles, and played at Huddersfield, for all bar 2 games. Very quickly the “Sheffield” and “eagles” were quietly dropped, and they became the Huddersfield Giants. Sheffield re-formed the Eagles in Sheffield, where they still play.Castleford & Wakefield were supposed to be merging, and fought tooth and nail to retain their individual identities. They are still in SL as stand-alone clubs, attracting crowds of around half what Wigan & Leeds get, but with the same costs wrt staff, infrastructure etc. Result is that they dont have a hope in hell of breaking into the top 5.
It was also mooted that Cumbrian clubs should merge to form one SL club. They all resisted, with the result being that all three clubs are bumping along in the lower echalons.
The RFL needs to accept that RL will never rival RU, football etc and cut its cloth accordingly. So what if its an M62-dominated sport? If the folk along the M62 like it and will go to watch it then so be it.
Whilst it may seem an insular approach, it is a far more realistic one. Wales has been tried and failed, as has London. RU has the money and the influence to crush any attempt by RL to develop in these areas, and they do just that. I compare it with opening a village store on the doorsteps of Tescos.
The Sheffield – Huddersfield thing was destined to fail as the two places aren’t connected apart from being vaguely in the same larger historical county – ie. Yorkshire with a capital Y. So basically all they were doing was moving a Sheffield team to Huddersfield and expecting the fans to go with it.
If you were doing anything with Sheffield it would be to create a South Yorkshire team sharing the games out and playing them in Sheffield, Doncaster, Rotherham and Barnsley – much like the county cricket teams do and Munster do between Limerick and Cork.
I’m sure if the Cumbrians suddenly had a Super League team that varied its games between Barrow, Whitehaven and Carlisle they’d get on board. But in any case, f’ck em! It’s either that or they watch amateur rugby.
And you’re right with the Tesco analogy. It’s pointless trying to develop in areas where it’s not welcome. The powers that be should be consolidating and developing in the areas where there is existing support.
Some good points there Standish. I do think some of the smaller clubs/areas would benefit from a merger as opposed to trying to support 2 or 3 sides but imagine your reaction if we were told to merge with Bolton so we could fill a 30,000 seater stadium between us.The big problem that RL has in my opinion is that the powers that be are too scared of upsetting the little clubs and thus punish the big clubs.
Ian Lenegan has taken some stick from Wigan fans due to the sale of some players and his voting to keep the salary cap as it is as opposed to raising it. He did that though because the smaller clubs are struggling to compete now so by giving the likes of Wigan, Leeds and Warrington even more money to spend will just widen that gap and see more clubs go bust striving to compete.
Personally I would bring a ruling in regards homegrown talent. If a club like Wakefield produce a player then they should be able to either keep that player or sell him for a substantial amount as opposed to losing him for nothing. Can you imagine if that great Utd side of Giggs, Neville, Scholes, Beckham, Butt had to be split up because Utd were broke or would break the salary cap. I’m not sure whether the way forward is to put loopholes in place for homegrown talent such as only 50% of their wage counting on the cap or bringing in a rule that any club wishing to sign them has to pay for them regardless of whether they’re under contract or not which follows the under 23 rule in football (think it’s 23 anyway). Whether you could get away with that under employment law I don’t know but I’m not sure how you get away with the salary cap either.
I am genuinely worried about the future of the game but not because of the money or the competition. The governing body are complicating a simple game with rule changes and silly ideas like the club call. They try to promote the sport and pride theirselves on the toughness of the players but then create rules that water down the toughness of the sport. My biggest worry about RL is that in 2 years time it’ll be tick and pass.
Yes I’d hate it if Wigan had to merge with Bolton, but the difference is, in English football it is extremely unlikely ever to happen whereas in RL it could easily become a reality and surely if it got to the stage in football where it was a case of merge or cease to exist, I’d be sensible and rational enough to see that it was the only option.
Although, I think ‘merge’ was probably the wrong word. ‘Incorporate’ may be a better word – insomuch as you’d have three of four clubs all incorporated and feeding into a larger parent club, so yes, you’d still have Whitehaven etc at an amateur or semi-pro level – playing games against Barrow etc, but these would be akin to academy sides and the main focus would be on a Cumbrian representative team playing in Super League.
I’ll be honest: I don’t know enough about the salary cap to have much input but the home grown idea on the face of it seems a good one.
Rugby League has been going for what 130 odd years if it hasn’t made it nationally in that time span it never will
Another problem is that they expect things to work immediatley. They should have left Celtic Crusaders in the lower leagues for a further 3 years minimum to build their name. Throwing them in the Super League and expecting them to survive was doomed to fail.
Gateshead were doing ok and then scrapped to save Hull. Sides like Leigh and Featherstone are stepped on to save sides like London.
If they want to grow the game then they need to take it step by step as they now seem to be with Oxford and Gloucester.
If you were doing anything with Sheffield it would be to create a South Yorkshire team sharing the games out and playing them in Sheffield, Doncaster, Rotherham and Barnsley – much like the county cricket teams do and Munster do between Limerick and Cork.I’m sure if the Cumbrians suddenly had a Super League team that varied its games between Barrow, Whitehaven and Carlisle they’d get on board. But in any case, f’ck em! It’s either that or they watch amateur rugby.
Bradford, Leeds and Huddersfield could be West Yorkshire.
Saints, Warrington and Widnes could merge to become Livwerpool, or Merseyside,and
Wigan. Salford and Oldham could become Gt Manchester and play at that sports stadium next to City’s ground, or Salfords new ground.HAPPY DAYS
i have seen the death of thatcher and hopefully of that tinpot rugby league hey mutty make it a threesomeHAPPY DAYS INDEED
HAPPY DAYS
i have seen the death of thatcher and hopefully of that tinpot rugby league hey mutty make it a threesomeHAPPY DAYS INDEED
Classy…. :angry:
If its ok with you I’ll carry on living. My kids need a dad seeing as they might not have a mum for much longer.
Rugby fan and general WUM that he may be, wishing death on Mutty or any other poster will not be tolerated joking or not.
If you were doing anything with Sheffield it would be to create a South Yorkshire team sharing the games out and playing them in Sheffield, Doncaster, Rotherham and Barnsley – much like the county cricket teams do and Munster do between Limerick and Cork.
I’m sure if the Cumbrians suddenly had a Super League team that varied its games between Barrow, Whitehaven and Carlisle they’d get on board. But in any case, f’ck em! It’s either that or they watch amateur rugby.
Bradford, Leeds and Huddersfield could be West Yorkshire.
Saints, Warrington and Widnes could merge to become Livwerpool, or Merseyside,and
Wigan. Salford and Oldham could become Gt Manchester and play at that sports stadium next to City’s ground, or Salfords new ground.[/quote]Back on topic if we could seeing as we actually have a half decent RL based thread here:
There is actually more chance of us merging with Bolton than any of that happening.
IF there were to be any mergers in rugby league then you’d be looking at a similar layout to that that was first pressed in 1995.
Initially, several mergers between existing clubs were proposed:
Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
Hull and Hull Kingston Rovers would form Hull
Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
Warrington and Widnes were to form Cheshire
Salford and Oldham were to form Manchester
Sheffield and Doncaster were to form South Yorkshire
They were to be included with the following stand-alone clubs: St. Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford Northern, Halifax, London Broncos and Paris Saint-Germain.That would now change to having something along the lines of:
Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
Salford, Swinton and Oldham were to form ManchesterStand-alone clubs: St. Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford, Hull FC, Hull KR, London Broncos, Catalans Dragons, Warrington, Widnes, Huddersfield.
Back on topic if we could seeing as we actually have a half decent RL based thread here:There is actually more chance of us merging with Bolton than any of that happening.
IF there were to be any mergers in rugby league then you’d be looking at a similar layout to that that was first pressed in 1995.
Initially, several mergers between existing clubs were proposed:
Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
Hull and Hull Kingston Rovers would form Hull
Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
Warrington and Widnes were to form Cheshire
Salford and Oldham were to form Manchester
Sheffield and Doncaster were to form South Yorkshire
They were to be included with the following stand-alone clubs: St. Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford Northern, Halifax, London Broncos and Paris Saint-Germain.That would now change to having something along the lines of:
Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
Salford, Swinton and Oldham were to form ManchesterStand-alone clubs: St. Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford, Hull FC, Hull KR, London Broncos, Catalans Dragons, Warrington, Widnes, Huddersfield.
I’d go a step further and merge the two Hull clubs and merge Huddersfield with Halifax (Calderdale).
Widnes – I’d do away with or morph them into a Liverpool or Cheshire team.
No point having a London or French Club. They’re puppets with no support and pointless. Prime example of why the previous regime of willy waving hasn’t worked.
In my opinion there are only 4 stand-alone clubs. Wigan, St Helens, Leeds, Warrington.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
