Wigan…the town….(Quite frankly,Embarrassing!)

You suspect what you like. I posted the facts without any comment simply to disprove some misinformation.

“Labour are connoisseurs at manipulating figures!”

Hmmm try delving into the history books at how many times the Tories changed how the unemployed total was calculated in the 70’s, 80’s & 90’s in a desparate attempt to bring the figures down. or how they took away the right to claim it from so many people in another attempt to bring the figures down – not saying that hasn’t continued under Labour but to claim Labour are “connoisseurs” of manipulating figures is a case of pot calling the kettle black

“Slag Maggie Thatcher as much as you like,it was never like this when she was holding the purse strings!”

Are you having a laugh?????? Have a look at photos of Wigan town centre from the 80’s to see what it looked like. Nevermind decimating Britains manufacturing base as mines, mills, foundries, factories etc.. were all shut down. Then selling off the countries “family jewells” to foreign investors, the lack of investment in schools, hospitals, police …. the list goes on & on & on
If you want to look at what created some of the type of people mentioned in this thread think back to the attitude of a certain former prime minister who stated “there is no such thing as society”

I’m well aware of the point being made & I’m saying put aside your unhappiness about how it is now & look back through non-rose/blue tinted specs at what the town centre was like from the late 70’s to now it is (IMO) better now than it was then – so to me phrases like “it was never like this when maggie held the purse strings” are quite frankly a load of gash

I’m far from a Labour supporter – I voted for them in the first general election I could in 1997 & I feel betrayed. I also think its good that from having complete control of the council at one stage in the early/mid 90’s Labour’s majority has now been slashed considerably coz they’ve gotten far too comfortable with the “they’ll vote for us no matter what we do” attitude

“they shouldnt also delude themselves that defence of labours record can be justified by saying, well look at the tories” – with all due respect that’s what I remember hearing time after time after time through the 80’s when the Tories record was being attacked. Unfortunately its what happens

“the unjust war” – would that be the same unjust war that the Tories voted for?

“and a legacy for the next 20 years in paying off the bailout of the banks” – I don’t claim to know the full ins & outs of this credit crunch stuff but from what I’ve read a very large proportion of the blame for it can be traced back to the credit boom & de-regulation of the banks brought in & actively encouraged by the Tories. On top of that but I’ve seen & read numerous sources that have stated the Labour govt had little choice but to bail out the banks in the way that they did. If they’d allowed the banking sector to almost collapse in on itself the damage to the economy would have been far worse than we experienced/are experiencing.
Its certainly unlikely that a govt (Tory, Labour or Liberal) would have done any differently

I think the fact that Wigan is (or was) one of the safest labour seats (council & govt) is part of the problem. As I’ve heard many people say you could pin a Labour rosette on a monkey & they’d still get elected & IMO this attitude has caused them to take things for granted & perhaps not do all that they should
A mate of mine’s dad lost a council seat he’d held since I was at primary school at the last round of local elections & I remember telling him before then that Labour needed to be seen to be doing more but they took being elected for granted & didn’t bother. We got inundated all year round with Lib Dem leaflets telling you what they were doing, what they wanted to do & the only time the local labour party bothered was a leaflet at election time. He didn’t think it was that, they didn’t bother & now I don’t think they hold any seats in the Tyldesley ward I used to live in
I also remember laughing to my dad (a staunch labour supporter) when Labour had every seat on Wigan council & he said it’d be a bad thing & pretty much predicted what’d happen

As for the Iraq war. I know what I thought about it at the time & I know what I think about it now. Nothing has happened during the intervening years to convince me anything I thought at the time was wrong

The banks is a difficult one. Yes if you read around you could see what was happening but none of the govts anywhere round the world did anything to regulate it. If any govt had tried to stick its oar in & regulate the banking sector the money men would have been in uproar and money would have poured out of Britain & then whoever was in charge would have taken the blame for destroying the country. I don’t anything like enough about the financial markets to know what they could do to regulate the banks now – I don’t think refusing to allow them to pay bonuses would make much difference though

I haven’t voted Labour since 1997 & its highly unlikely I’ll vote for them this year. What I couldn’t bear however is to see a Tory govt get back in after what I remember of them last time & how I don’t see how they’ve changed. Do I risk not voting & feel guilt if they get in (even though in all likelihood my one vote in St Helens won’t make much difference to the general election result) or do I vote for a party other than Labour or Tory & possibly end up with the same dilemma??