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You conveniently missed a division out there pal. :roll:
And please tell me where I am comparing Ellington with Heskey as a player, I am talking about strikers here.By Landgates theory of a player being better than another because that ‘better’ player has played for England then Upson is bettter than Steve Bruce and Carlton Cole was better than Howard Kendall. ;)
I think some people are letting the passage of time blur their memory about Nathan Ellington whilst he was at Latics
There were times when he looked absolutely unstoppable. There were also just as many times when he looked about as good as Pat Gavin. He regularly just to have a glut of goals in successive matches then he’d have a bit of a stinker, his confidence would nose dive & he’d go on a pretty lengthy run of games without a goal & where to be frank he’d look bloody awful. I remember during and after a midweek away game at Stockport where Ellington completely fluffed a 1on1 with their keeper which ultimately cost us 3 points & had a mare in general he was getting all sorts of stick off the crowd. I also remember coming away from a game at the JJB (can’t remember who against) where you had groups of people arguing that he was a completely over-rated crock of turd – & that was when we were in the 3rd division
I don’t think there can be any doubt whatsoever either that he looked a far better player when playing alongside Jason Roberts than he did alongside anyone else.
I would also argue that as Jason Roberts has is still a premier league player whereas Ellington’s career has nosedived somewhat that of the 2 Roberts was & still is the better playerThere’s no doubt that Ellington was amongst the best strikers we’ve ever had but “by far the best centre forward we have ever had”???????? Not in a million years
You conveniently missed a division out there pal. :roll:There are four divisions in England…………..pal.
I dont buy all this Championshit,League1,League 2 garbage…
For someone to say that they never rated a striker who scored 59 goals in 134 games has me thinking WHAT ? This same person just happens to like the style of football we play now and so therefore I conclude that the person in question ( Yes you Landgate ) doesn’t really get off on goals !! 8-)
Greetings! (as Joey in ‘Bread’ used to say)
I stopped coming on here because it got to be a load of old bolls, very repetitive, niggly, and frankly, it bored the daylights out of me. I occasionally have a look in, as I have today.
However, I am moved to respond to the criticism aimed at Nathan Ellington. In all honesty, for around 2 or 3 seasons he was the best striker we’ve ever had. To be honest, have ve ever replaced him? He had that ‘lazy’ way on the ball, where he’d put his foot on it. Next minute he’d curl one into the corner of the net.
Anybody insinuating that he was anything less of a very good player for us, is talking out of their backside. I for one, would of loved to have seen how he and Roberts would have faired in the top flight. I reckon we might have finished higher than tenth in that first season.
How anybody can criticize him when we have such a current ‘potent strike force, I dont know.
“Don Page MK2”- What a pleb.
When he was on fire he was on fire. When he wasn’t, and that was at regular intervals and for sustained runs of matches he was bloody awful
In fact so frequent were his bad patches (both in part due to his shoulder injuries & just bad form) that he regularly used to get slated on messageboards during these times
I remember a City fan who used to be on the 6-a-side team I played for asking me about him as they were linked with him at one point. i said that moving to a bigger more established club than Latics at that stage would destroy him because I felt that he was such a “confidence” player and if he moved to a club like City they would expect instant results all the time & they wouldn’t go easy on him during his bad spells. Because we knew how good he could be at Latics or because we were more used to having to accept players flaws in the lower leagues the Latics fans went easy on him. I said if he didn’t hit the ground running at whichever club he’d eventually leave to join then he’d never make it there
he struggled early on at West Brom, the crowd got on his back & he never recovered
despite all that I’d have loved to have seen him alongside Roberts in the top flight. I have my doubts as to how well he’d have done but there’s always a part of me that hopes it would have been successful just coz those 2 always knew where & what the other one was doing & that’s a vital ingredient of any strike force. Unfortunately he let greed get the better of him so we will never know – & its not his agents fault, he was a big boy & completely free to make his own decisions.
personally i think Whelan was bob on to say to him (& others) that they could have improved deals but that it would be appearance & performance related – too many clubs have handed out big contracts to existing players when they’ve gone up & suffered because of it. Whelan’s philosophy was if you are as good as you say you will be in this division then prove it & you’ll be rewarded. Ellington wanted all up front & to be paid it regardless of how poorly he may have performed – I think Ellington himself said at the time that the offer at Wigan could have earned him more money but that he felt he’d proved himself to be worthy of the money upfrontIn response to VAT just because 2 of our current 3 strikers don’t seem to be able to hit a cows ar$e with a banjo doesn’t mean that people can’t point out the flaws of someone who played for us 1 & 2 divisions lower and against inferior opposition. That said, his goal scoring record does put him up there with our top strikers – just that to ignore his bad points is to me as bad as ignoring his good uns
When he was on fire he was on fire. When he wasn’t, and that was at regular intervals and for sustained runs of matches he was bloody awfulIn fact so frequent were his bad patches (both in part due to his shoulder injuries & just bad form) that he regularly used to get slated on messageboards during these times
I remember a City fan who used to be on the 6-a-side team I played for asking me about him as they were linked with him at one point. i said that moving to a bigger more established club than Latics at that stage would destroy him because I felt that he was such a “confidence” player and if he moved to a club like City they would expect instant results all the time & they wouldn’t go easy on him during his bad spells. Because we knew how good he could be at Latics or because we were more used to having to accept players flaws in the lower leagues the Latics fans went easy on him. I said if he didn’t hit the ground running at whichever club he’d eventually leave to join then he’d never make it there
he struggled early on at West Brom, the crowd got on his back & he never recovered
despite all that I’d have loved to have seen him alongside Roberts in the top flight. I have my doubts as to how well he’d have done but there’s always a part of me that hopes it would have been successful just coz those 2 always knew where & what the other one was doing & that’s a vital ingredient of any strike force. Unfortunately he let greed get the better of him so we will never know – & its not his agents fault, he was a big boy & completely free to make his own decisions.
personally i think Whelan was bob on to say to him (& others) that they could have improved deals but that it would be appearance & performance related – too many clubs have handed out big contracts to existing players when they’ve gone up & suffered because of it. Whelan’s philosophy was if you are as good as you say you will be in this division then prove it & you’ll be rewarded. Ellington wanted all up front & to be paid it regardless of how poorly he may have performed – I think Ellington himself said at the time that the offer at Wigan could have earned him more money but that he felt he’d proved himself to be worthy of the money upfrontIn response to VAT just because 2 of our current 3 strikers don’t seem to be able to hit a cows ar$e with a banjo doesn’t mean that people can’t point out the flaws of someone who played for us 1 & 2 divisions lower and against inferior opposition. That said, his goal scoring record does put him up there with our top strikers – just that to ignore his bad points is to me as bad as ignoring his good uns
HAD to get a dig in, didn’t you?
Ellington was effin superb. End of chat.
That wasn’t intended as any sort of dig. Don’t know how it could have been (disagreeing with someone to me isn’t a “dig”) seen that way but apologies if it did.
Anyway my point was that just because Boselli & Di Santo can’t score up against the Terry’s, Ferdinands, etc.. of this division doesn’t mean that (to me anyway) it stops somebody being able to criticise a player who used to come up against the Shaun Garnett’s of other division – just as it doesn’t stop somebody sayign Pat Gavin, Neil Morton, Peter Thorne etc.. weren’t much kop either
As I’ve said I liked him but there were plenty of times when he looked anything but superb
Gonna throw my bit in here
The Duke is the best striker ive seen at Wigan, And by quite away, Jonesy was excellent, but for one season in our promotion season. Ellington im in no doubt would have walked into the England side if he had waited a season or two for a proper club to come in for him. His all around ability was immense, He terrorised defences for years before he went to Albion. I remember fondly the hat-tricks in the cups against the big clubs then and hammering anything that came in front of him. BEFORE Roberts arrived, At Bristol Rovers he scored a hat-trick at against Derby County at Pride Park, Think it was Derby, 0-3 anyroad and every goal was a cracker. I agree that sometimes he was the star of the anti-climax but 90% of the time he was just unstoppable. No one calls Rooney and Torres crap when they have an in-different period because they know the quality will shine through again. When Roberts arrived it just made him even better. Heskey on the other hand has never been a good player since he left Leicester and has only made it so far because of his size and the fact Liverpool had him for a while. No doubt at all he would have made it to the very top Ellington. People at Latics are good at ruining their careers, None of them learn. Bullard, Zaki, De Vos, Haworth e.t.c, e.t.c the list is endless.
Ellington was a superb striker for us, absolutely brilliant goal v Chesterfied (on his debut) and the one at Wolves, are 2 of the best goals I’ve seen scored by a Latics player.
However, he then took a massive step backwards by going to WBA and signing for that managerial genuis known as Bryan Robson. How, in terms of his career, he didn’t see that as a crazy move is beyond me.
Ellington was a superb striker for us, absolutely brilliant goal v Chesterfied (on his debut) and the one at Wolves, are 2 of the best goals I’ve seen scored by a Latics player.However, he then took a massive step backwards by going to WBA and signing for that managerial genuis known as Bryan Robson. How, in terms of his career, he didn’t see that as a crazy move is beyond me.
He saw the £ sign……… :roll:
Gonna throw my bit in hereThe Duke is the best striker ive seen at Wigan, And by quite away, Jonesy was excellent, but for one season in our promotion season. Ellington im in no doubt would have walked into the England side if he had waited a season or two for a proper club to come in for him. His all around ability was immense, He terrorised defences for years before he went to Albion. I remember fondly the hat-tricks in the cups against the big clubs then and hammering anything that came in front of him. BEFORE Roberts arrived, At Bristol Rovers he scored a hat-trick at against Derby County at Pride Park, Think it was Derby, 0-3 anyroad and every goal was a cracker. I agree that sometimes he was the star of the anti-climax but 90% of the time he was just unstoppable. No one calls Rooney and Torres crap when they have an in-different period because they know the quality will shine through again. When Roberts arrived it just made him even better. Heskey on the other hand has never been a good player since he left Leicester and has only made it so far because of his size and the fact Liverpool had him for a while. No doubt at all he would have made it to the very top Ellington. People at Latics are good at ruining their careers, None of them learn. Bullard, Zaki, De Vos, Haworth e.t.c, e.t.c the list is endless.
GREAT post. I agree and do think he could have gone right to the top. He had EVERYTHING! Power, heading ability and an immense finish. (went to the stockport game though and that made me cry!) …Loved him and dont think we have had anyone as gifted since. 3Mil SHOULD have been a bargain for WBA!
I have just got back from Manchester with a few mates from work, both Oldham fans and we were discussing football. I said to them that we had, in Ellington and Roberts one of our best strike forces, but once the duke left for the money, that in my mind was when we changed as a football club or my perspective changed and I stopped enjoying football. Don’t get me wrong I am not blaming Wigan but the mind set of the players, it’s all about the money, no loyalties get what you can for the least amount of effort.
I still support Wigan in fact I was at Goodison on Saturday, dodging the shit on the pavement, but it was more about the day out than the result. Am I wrong??I remember fondly the hat-tricks in the cups against the big clubs then …. No one calls Rooney and Torres crap when they have an in-different period because they know the quality will shine through again. …. No doubt at all he would have made it to the very top Ellington.Just 3 points to pick up on there:
i don’t recall the “hat-tricks against the big clubs” – i remember him getting one against a depleted WBA side (a perfect hat-trick if I remember right & everyone of em a bit of a beaut) but that was it. That’s not to slate the numerous other goals he got against numerous other clubs but as I said in my first post on this thread – I think people let the mists of time cloud their memory
The thing with Rooney & Torre’s poor spells (bearing in mind Torres has been injured pretty much for the last 6 months) is that they are short & irregular. Ellington’s weren’t – they were lengthy & pretty regular. You’re right though that the majority of Latics fans stuck by him during these lean times coz they knew what he was capable of
Ellington didn’t make it to the top because he wasn’t good enough – if he’d been good enough then it wouldn’t mattered one jot whether he’d stayed at Latics or gone to WBA. He’s also had numerous other opportunities to resurrect his career & he’s failed at them all including one where the manager who got the best out of him (Jewell) was in charge of the team & it made no difference. That to me indicates its because he wasn’t/isn’t good enough to make it to the top. I always thought it was interesting that the 2 hottest properties in the Championship in 04/05 were Ellington & Bent – Bent ignored a clutch of other clubs to go to a well established top half/mid-table side (at the time at least). The only club I can recall putting in the bid to activate Ellington’s release clause were a relegation fighting/yo yo club. If he’d been as good as people seem to remember he was then bigger clubs than that would have come in for him especially as his agent made it very public the season before what his release clause wasI should point out that he is undoubtedly one of the best centre forwards we have had but the best? Not for me & I think he reached the limits of his abilities in the Championship with us
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