Owen Coyle

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  • #127090
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    [I didn’t make any comment about Coyle’s appointment although I felt underwhelmed by him being given the job and felt it showed little flair or ambition by the club, at the same time realising I was probably wrong and he was what we needed in the short term, so like most others was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt.

    To be honest at first I thought he got things right, he made the right noises, I felt his signings, including Holt, were just what we needed, even in the early games I thought things were good, he seemed to be able to turn games round when they were not going right, once this new team jelled we would do well.

    A few games into his tenure a few things became obvious, the senior players who had come down from the premier league were poor and underperforming, we looked jaded and devoid of ideas during games, our thinking and play were much too slow in this new league, some of the long throw in, long ball stuff was just awful, and the problem was it was getting worse every game not better, teams that we should have been steam rolling were out playing us, things were not good.

    To his credit Mr. Whelan saw it the same way and acted swiftly to get rid of Coyle.

    Now the worrying thing for me, something that will probably bring out the howls of derision often aimed at my views, is I think we have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.

    I feel exactly the same about the appointment of Uwe Rosler, I just don’t get it, his CV has nothing on it that gives cause for great optimism, his team selections and tinkering have been baffling so far and our play has not improved we are still slow and lethargic going forward and we don’t create any goal scoring opportunities.

    The most baffling thing for me though is the way he has been accepted by WAFC fans, with most message board pundits telling us how he will get it right and he is the man for the job, is this a backlash from the relief of getting rid of Coyle, who if we are being honest never really stood a chance with many for simply daring to manage Bolton in the past and bringing in a ex Bolton legend as part of his backroom staff or is there more to it than that.

    LMB – the comment you highlighted was me referring specifically to Griff’s comment that he doesn’t recall seeing one dissenting voice when Holt was signed. I was pointing out that I can remember at least one regular poster on here not being impressed by him being brought on board. I thought it was you or someone else – obviously not you though!!

    personally I think time will tell with Rosler. Some things I’ve been impressed with & others I haven’t – namely his apparent obsession with squad rotation. Making 4 or 5 personnel or positional changes per game is IMO killing any chance of momentum & partnerships building up & is leading to the sort of disjointed performances like on Saturday
    Why he’s being accepted is probably due to a combination of relief at not having Coyle in charge, the fact that (prior to Saturday) we were picking up an average of 2 points a game & had only lost 1 in 12 & (for me at least) him talking of the style of football I prefer to see

    #127108
    salford_latic44Salford_Latic44
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    Considering the amount of games we play and that Rosler has come in half way through the season the squad rotation and constant tinkering with the tactics is understandable.

    #127111
    itwasbackinthedayOlder Springfielder
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    Considering the amount of games we play and that Rosler has come in half way through the season the squad rotation and constant tinkering with the tactics is understandable.

    i would tend to agree with that. short memories some people has some think he s been here longer than half a season. we need to exercise patience with him has he puts his plan together. we have all seen what happens when a manager rushes stuff just to appease the fans

    #127114
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    Considering the amount of games we play and that Rosler has come in half way through the season the squad rotation and constant tinkering with the tactics is understandable.

    I’d disagree
    There’s no need for a manager to be making 4-6 changes from game to game regardless of how many matches they’ve played or when he became manager.
    I understand the philosophy behind squad rotation & it can work where a manager might make a one off change but making so many changes from game to game is having an adverse effect on the cohesion of the team (or so it appears from the outside).
    Looking at the last 4 games the Palace game showed 4 changes from the previous game, the Middlesbrough match showed 6 changes from the Palace game, the Charlton game showed 5 & the Huddersfield game showed a further 5 changes (these figures include Beausejour going from left wing to left back, to left wing & so on).
    How are players supposed to develop any sort of partnerships or momentum if so many changes are being made from game to game?
    What you’re getting at the moment is a good game from one team selection, followed by a poor one from another, followed by an improved performance from a team selection close to that in the first game, followed by another below par one from another changed selection.
    The area of the team showing the least amount of changes (the defence) is the one where the least changes are being made from game to game – coincidence?
    Rosler’s been in charge for 2 months now & it’s more than enough time for him to know which player’s are best for which positions.

    #127122
    vincehillvinceHill
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    seem to remember Jewell tinkering a bit in his first season here in 2001-2002 and look we’re he took the club and yes he got slaughtered at the time.
    Uwe is sorting out a mess and with the fans on his side surely is a good thing and one that will give in the valuable time to sort the team out.I don’t think we should judge him critically just yet and look at how he has turned the form round since he joined!
    He will get it right in my view but like any club in transition Lethe results will be mixed until he builds his own team and stamps his style and authority on it.
    A bit too early to criticise just yet!

    #127126
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    I may well be wrong but I don’t remember Paul Jewell making so many changes on a game by game basis – in fact one thing I do remembers hinging to a mate that he was regularly criticising the players in those early days & yet pickng those same players for the next game. In fact he even had a blazing on pitch row with Scott Green away at Wrexham in the auto windscreens & still picked him for the next game

    #127128
    NuneatonlaticNuneatonlatic
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    If we recall that during the window the likes of Boozy, Ramis and others were targets of Prem clubs, is it not beyond reason that Uwe is doing his damndest to keep everyone happy and is the reason he must play as many players as he can? At the end of the day we can only play 11 guys at one time and please remember that some on here have banged on about having a decent squad so lets not castigate the guy now for trying to keep the boys happy and match sharp. Give him time and im positive he will get it right. In Uwe we trust.

    #127130
    JohnArkwrightjohn arkwright
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    Uwe is doing his damndest to keep everyone happy

    you’re having a laugh, right?

    Usk

    #127134
    NuneatonlaticNuneatonlatic
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    Uwe is doing his damndest to keep everyone happy

    you’re having a laugh, right?

    Usk

    No John I don’t think I am having a laugh, even at Sunday league level I encountered players wanting and threatening to go elsewhwere if they didn’t feature in a run of games. 25 into 11 doesn’t go and most players seem to think they are top dog and have the devine right to play. Todays manager really needs to be thick skinned and ruthless imho. Obviously I may be wrong and im willing to be corrected.

    #127143
    loudmouthbluedamian walker
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    seem to remember Jewell tinkering a bit in his first season here in 2001-2002 and look we’re he took the club and yes he got slaughtered at the time.
    Uwe is sorting out a mess and with the fans on his side surely is a good thing and one that will give in the valuable time to sort the team out.I don’t think we should judge him critically just yet and look at how he has turned the form round since he joined!
    He will get it right in my view but like any club in transition Lethe results will be mixed until he builds his own team and stamps his style and authority on it.
    A bit too early to criticise just yet!

    That is a bit of an exaggeration.

    I have divided the championship up into two groups :-

    Group One
    The teams pushing for, and expected to achieve a top half finish, the league leaders and playoff spots, I have also included Blackpool** in this group who were riding high and getting results when we played them.

    Group Two
    The teams that are looking to finish mid table at best, avoid the drop and the relegation certainties.

    I then looked at when we played these teams and the results under both Coyle and Rosler, I think it makes interesting reading.

    Under Coyle we played

    Group one
    Middlesbrough
    Nottingham Forest
    Leicester City
    Ipswich Town
    Watford
    QPR
    Blackburn Rovers
    Blackpool **
    Brighton
    Derby County

    Group two
    Barnsley
    Bournemouth
    Doncaster
    Charlton
    Yeovil
    Huddersfield Town

    That is the 16 league games before Coyle was sacked, 62.5% of those games were against the ‘better sides and promotion/playoff contenders'(group 1), 37.5% against the lesser sides(group 2).
    The total points return in that period was 22 out of a possible 48 which equates to 45.8% gained.

    Under Rosler we have played

    Group one
    Bolton Wanderers
    Birmingham City
    Bournemouth
    Doncaster Rovers
    Charlton Athletic
    Huddersfield Town

    Group two
    Reading
    Burnley
    Derby County
    Middlesbrough

    Post Rosler we have played 10 league games 40% against the better teams (group 1) and 60% against the lesser (group 2) teams.

    The total points return during this period is 18 out of a possible 30 which equates to a return of 60%.

    Summary

    Owen Coyle
    Out of the 16 games played when he was boss we played 62.5% against the ‘group 1 better teams’ and we gained 22 points out of 48 available(48.5%), we also played 6 cup games(5 European) which is acknowledged as causing better teams than us problems with league form.


    Uwe Rosler

    Rosler’s points return on paper looks superior, 18 out of a possible 30(60%)but those points have been taken against 60% of the worst teams in the league or put another way he has only achieved 40% of our points against the ‘group 1 better teams’. In that time he also only had one European game and 3 FA cup games.

    I have not included the two losses against Leeds and Milwall which took place in between managers, but if these were added to Coyles figures would lower is points return to about 41%, but still against 62.5% of the group one teams.

    In my opinion Rosler has not improved things, or certainly nothing like some, including you, are suggesting.

    #127146
    griffChris Griffin
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    seem to remember Jewell tinkering a bit in his first season here in 2001-2002 and look we’re he took the club and yes he got slaughtered at the time.
    Uwe is sorting out a mess and with the fans on his side surely is a good thing and one that will give in the valuable time to sort the team out.I don’t think we should judge him critically just yet and look at how he has turned the form round since he joined!
    He will get it right in my view but like any club in transition Lethe results will be mixed until he builds his own team and stamps his style and authority on it.
    A bit too early to criticise just yet!

    That is a bit of an exaggeration.

    I have divided the championship up into two groups :-

    Group One
    The teams pushing for, and expected to achieve a top half finish, the league leaders and playoff spots, I have also included Blackpool** in this group who were riding high and getting results when we played them.

    Group Two
    The teams that are looking to finish mid table at best, avoid the drop and the relegation certainties.

    I then looked at when we played these teams and the results under both Coyle and Rosler, I think it makes interesting reading.

    Under Coyle we played

    Group one
    Middlesbrough
    Nottingham Forest
    Leicester City
    Ipswich Town
    Watford
    QPR
    Blackburn Rovers
    Blackpool **
    Brighton
    Derby County

    Group two
    Barnsley
    Bournemouth
    Doncaster
    Charlton
    Yeovil
    Huddersfield Town

    That is the 16 league games before Coyle was sacked, 62.5% of those games were against the ‘better sides and promotion/playoff contenders'(group 1), 37.5% against the lesser sides(group 2).
    The total points return in that period was 22 out of a possible 48 which equates to 45.8% gained.

    Under Rosler we have played

    Group one
    Bolton Wanderers
    Birmingham City
    Bournemouth
    Doncaster Rovers
    Charlton Athletic
    Huddersfield Town

    Group two
    Reading
    Burnley
    Derby County
    Middlesbrough

    Post Rosler we have played 10 league games 40% against the better teams (group 1) and 60% against the lesser (group 2) teams.

    The total points return during this period is 18 out of a possible 30 which equates to a return of 60%.

    Summary

    Owen Coyle
    Out of the 16 games played when he was boss we played 62.5% against the ‘group 1 better teams’ and we gained 22 points out of 48 available(48.5%), we also played 6 cup games(5 European) which is acknowledged as causing better teams than us problems with league form.


    Uwe Rosler

    Rosler’s points return on paper looks superior, 18 out of a possible 30(60%)but those points have been taken against 60% of the worst teams in the league or put another way he has only achieved 40% of our points against the ‘group 1 better teams’. In that time he also only had one European game and 3 FA cup games.

    I have not included the two losses against Leeds and Milwall which took place in between managers, but if these were added to Coyles figures would lower is points return to about 41%, but still against 62.5% of the group one teams.

    In my opinion Rosler has not improved things, or certainly nothing like some, including you, are suggesting.[/quote]

    Blimey, is your tele on the blink!!

    Hard to argue with such well researched lies, damn lies and statistics but things to add in Rosler’s defence are that a) he didn’t choose most of the players, b) he didn’t get a pre-season with them and had to hit the ground running, mid-season, with the cards he had been dealt and c) he has had a job on his hand turning round the squad’s confidence.

    Also, whilst I broadly accept your subjective groupings of the teams in the league, it is also widely accepted that “anyone can beat anyone” in this division and, even if that isn’t 100% true, form certainly fluctuates which makes comparisons difficult throughout the course of the season. Therefore, as those in the know always claim that football is a results business, I would suggest that an improvement in points earned per game from 45% to 60% represents a significant turnaround in fortune.

    Rosler for me – if only for his dress sense! ;)

    #127148
    JohnArkwrightjohn arkwright
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    Can’t be arsed reading all that, too busy tying drop shot rigs.

    But just seen the last bit,

    Dress sense!

    What the fck would you know about that griffo?

    7g

    #127149
    griffChris Griffin
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    What the fck would you know about that griffo?

    All my clothes come from a new range, Kettle and Pot.

    #127150
    TyldesleyLaticTyldesleyLatic
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    If we recall that during the window the likes of Boozy, Ramis and others were targets of Prem clubs, is it not beyond reason that Uwe is doing his damndest to keep everyone happy and is the reason he must play as many players as he can? At the end of the day we can only play 11 guys at one time and please remember that some on here have banged on about having a decent squad so lets not castigate the guy now for trying to keep the boys happy and match sharp. Give him time and im positive he will get it right. In Uwe we trust.

    There are plenty of other clubs who have squads as big, if not bigger, than Latics & their manager’s don’t make 4-5 starting XI chnages from game to game.
    Whilst you don’t want a group of players as unhappy as they’re alleged to have been under Coyle, the manager’s job is not to keep them happy but to get the best results possible & I just believe that by making so many changes from game to game that that isn’t happening.
    Far from keeping em fresh I think that making so many changes is hampering some players being able to build up any sort of momentum.

    For what it’s worth, I do agree that Rosler has improved things – 2 defeats in 14 represents a marked improvement but I don’t think the team is still doing as well as it should be because he is making so many changes

    #127153
    itwasbackinthedayOlder Springfielder
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    Hard to argue with such well researched lies, damn lies and statistics

    Also, whilst I broadly accept your subjective groupings of the teams in the league, it is also widely accepted that “anyone can beat anyone” in this division and, even if that isn’t 100% true, form certainly fluctuates which makes comparisons difficult throughout the course of the season. Therefore, as those in the know always claim that football is a results business, I would suggest that an improvement in points earned per game from 45% to 60% represents a significant turnaround in fortune.

    thatll do for me, wraps the argument up nicely

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