Stay or Go

You can tell the rugby bellend has been lurking around tonight (two votes for Joyce to stay)
Spineless tosser!

I voted to keep him (for now). I remember what happened last time we sacked two managers in the same season, and arguably that time we had a squad that should have been nowhere near the bottom 3.

This time we have a squad that was largely assembled when we were 3rd tier. Sure, we’ve added to it, but we have added players that other 2nd & 3rd division clubs didn’t really want. We signed Bogle, who was playing non-league football last season. In essence, we have a shit squad, and in all reality, we are going down with or without Joyce.

My prime reason for not sacking him now is financial. Assuming we are going down, and assuming that he will be taking a relegation pay cut like the rest of the squad, then I think he should be given until Nov/Dec of next season to show that with 12 months and two transfer windows under his belt, he can bring us back up and keep us up. If come November we are not around the top 6, then he gets the bullet, but it would be 2.5 years of lower wages as compo rather than 3 years of his current salary.

As the poster above quite rightly says, just because some supporters don’t agree with everything you say doesn’t make them a bellend – a very Orwell-esque point of view!

Well said, Pie Army.
I need to clarify though that sacking someone with a three year contract does not mean you have to pay three years wages. If that was the case loads of us mere mortals would get jobs oncontracts and then get ourselves sacked.
Contracts are a two-way agreement; the employer will pay x pounds in return for which the employee will perform certain duties. It provides more security than all the current newsworthy non-contractual ways employers get round paying tax and pension contributions. But it does not give absolute security, and it does not guarantee full payment.
Contracts can be unilaterally varied by either party. If the employer terminates it then there is a consideration of compensation. In normal life,as in football, this is often a matter of negotiation. Factors to be considered are how much has been lost, but that also would include the prospects of gaining another job. For a good coach (which Joyce seems to be, just a rubbish manager) his prospects of getting another job somewhere less pressured would appear good. An amount is agreed.
If agreement cannot be reached then us mortals would go to Employment Tribunal; football has its own, I believe, but is likely to follow similar rules, just keeping them inhouse and out of public view.
The tribunal would consider if the dismissal was unfair. For example a Chairman just bringing his mate in, or whether, in our case, it could be argued that the manager has failed his side of the contract in not producing acceptable results. The tribunal can make a reduced award, distributing culpability, but … and this is key … in an ET at least,even with full unfair dismissal, any award is limited to one year’s pay. Discrimination of course is a different matter here, but there does not appear to be an issue with that for Joyce, or at least an excuse for the poor performance.

But then again, it seems that getting points away from home where they aren’t expected are easier than at home where the expectation of most of the fans is that we’ll win.

The DW has rarely been a fortress – having checked back, the most home games we have won in a season is 14 and they have been in the 3rd tier when we’ve won it. The other seasons (2004/5 included) haven’t been that great in terms of win % – at best 50%, and usually lower.

With regard to the payoff for Joyce, as I explained, my reason for not sacking him was based on my thinking we’d go down regardless of who is in charge, and that it costs less to pay someone off who earns (say) £10,000 per week than it does to pay someone off who earns £20,000 per week.

“I voted to keep him (for now)”. I didnt see that option on the poll.

“In essence, we have a shit squad, and in all reality, we are going down with or without Joyce”.

The squad we have is more than capable of staying in this league, the poster above summed it up….If Joyce was to go today it would lift the gloom from the players and fans, and with nine games to go we would still have a fighting chance of staying up!

Go. At this point, we have to assume we are going down, So the question becomes, is Joyce the right man to bring us back up? I just don’t think I’ve seen any evidence of that. In order for me to vote to keep Joyce, I’d have to be of the opinion that: 1) Our league position is more due to a lack of talent than management, and 2) Joyce’s predecessor/ownership is more to blame for that lack of talent than he is – essentially, that you have confidence in Joyce making transfer decisions this summer. Do we really want him at the helm for the decisions this summer, or are we better admitting the mistake and moving on – giving a new manager some competitive matches to judge what he has before the next transfer window? As much as the frequent turnover of managers (and players) does concern me, Joyce’s record & the team’s offensive performance has been so dismal, that I don’t think he can just turn it around/get the players confidence just by moving to League 1.

I will say this – part of our problem has been the whole sale roster changes. Maybe I’m mistaken; but, other teams who have been successful moving up (or after moving down) haven’t turned their roster over to the degree that we have. If you’re moving up a level, that should indicate that a certain number of the players who helped you do that are ready for the next level. I think the roster turnover is an indictment of our scouting and player evaluation over the past 4 years.