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I keep reading here that Labour are villainous opportunists. I’ll tell you what looks opportunist to me: wanging on about the dangers of a “coalition of chaos”, “electing terrorist sympathisers” and the “magic money tree”, then forging an alliance with the political wing of the UDA and UVF and giving said money tree a shake to the tune of £1 billion so that Theresa May could keep hold of her job.
As for insulting the whole of NI, Alistair, I would suspect that a good 50% want nothing to do with the DUP, given that they were formed by a joyless Presbyterian who would chain kids’ swings up on a Sunday, called alcohol “the devil’s buttermilk” and marched at the funerals of Loyalist gunmen. The Tory party going into partnership with them – as well as being a huge setback to women’s reproductive rights – makes it impossible for them to be seen as neutral in the talks to restart power sharing at Stormont. So, as I say, they are ripping up the good Friday agreement for political expediency.
Mind you, the Unionist community shouldn’ get too complacent, either. Few have done more to harm to the Union in recent years than David Cameron with his referendum that was only ever designed to end a dispute in the Tory party but now threatens the breakup of the UK and the return of a hard border with the Republic. Good work there, Tories.
Yes Martin, you use the word suspect; so no foundation yet again. It is openly apparent that you know nothing but rhetoric about Northern Ireland; but then, that is good fodder for lazy journalism. I thought you were an open minded individual who would take the time to seek out a balanced view; but hey show’s how I misjudged you. How is life in the London Bubble, by the way :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
I think the DUP would have backed the Government anyway without a formal pact.
One things is for sure, with Jeremy Corbyns past involvement in the Politics of Northern Ireland, whether it was honourable or not, it would have stopped them from backing the Labour Party in any way while he is their leader.
I wonder if the GE result had been closer whether the Labour Party would have used similar tactics and tried to persuade Sinn Fein to take up their seats in Parliament to get themselves a majority.
Would all the Labour voters be as opposed to that as they are opposed to the Tories and the DUP?
Now how a topic about Latics flags at Glastonbury and Jezza wooing the crowds at the festival got to Northern Ireland,May, The Tories etc etc I don’t know.
We have three national tragedies and political differences should have been left well alone. But no not for Jezza and his chums it was just attack the Tories. These were terrible national tragedies and would have occurred whoever had been in power. The emergency services were first class in response and numbers.
Yes Kensington has many wealthy residents and a Tory council but would Campden and the many Labour controlled councils who have used the same cladding come under the same attack from Jezza and co. I think not but government cuts etc would have been used as the blame tool.
Now some of you have brought Northern Ireland into the discussion because of the DUP but what would or could May have done about the situation. They fought a shit general election but fell short of a big majority by a few hundred votes. A few thousand the other way could have swung it to Jezza. Jezza would then have been installed in a position to bargain and he would have collaborated with anyone including Adams and his Cronies.
Now then,why is it presumed that anyone is a raging Tory when the main crux of the discussion is about behaviour and the way people behave in a situation. I had lots of respect for Corbyn who fought a good election and not moving away from his core principals ( whether they could work or not is another question) and can see he is a man who genuinely cares. They all care, all be it with varying principals but please I and many other people don’t want the finger pointing and blame used for political gain. National tragedies like we have seen need all people to work together to ensure they do not occur again. They require one main ingredient and that is honesty, irrespective of party politics. We need to start and look at things closer and review why these events have occured in the past with previous governments but yet they have happened again. They can not happen again.
Now I don’t like some of young Mr Sheerans music but wow, what a talent and George Ezra, a cracker.Future Islands, Whitney King Gizzard, Little Dragon, Hot 8 Brass Band not too bad either but no Latics flag.I keep reading here that Labour are villainous opportunists. I’ll tell you what looks opportunist to me: wanging on about the dangers of a “coalition of chaos”, “electing terrorist sympathisers” and the “magic money tree”, then forging an alliance with the political wing of the UDA and UVF and giving said money tree a shake to the tune of £1 billion so that Theresa May could keep hold of her job.
As for insulting the whole of NI, Alistair, I would suspect that a good 50% want nothing to do with the DUP, given that they were formed by a joyless Presbyterian who would chain kids’ swings up on a Sunday, called alcohol “the devil’s buttermilk” and marched at the funerals of Loyalist gunmen. The Tory party going into partnership with them – as well as being a huge setback to women’s reproductive rights – makes it impossible for them to be seen as neutral in the talks to restart power sharing at Stormont. So, as I say, they are ripping up the good Friday agreement for political expediency.
Mind you, the Unionist community shouldn’ get too complacent, either. Few have done more to harm to the Union in recent years than David Cameron with his referendum that was only ever designed to end a dispute in the Tory party but now threatens the breakup of the UK and the return of a hard border with the Republic. Good work there, Tories.
Yes Martin, you use the word suspect; so no foundation yet again. It is openly apparent that you know nothing but rhetoric about Northern Ireland; but then, that is good fodder for lazy journalism. I thought you were an open minded individual who would take the time to seek out a balanced view; but hey show’s how I misjudged you. How is life in the London Bubble, by the way :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:[/quote]
45% of the population of Northern Ireland are Catholic (against 48% Protestant), so I ‘suspect’ the figure of 50% of Northern Irish people not backing the DUP isn’t far off the truth.There’s those with no religion and those who don’t vote, too, but I don’t know anything – I’m in a London bubble apparently! For the record, Alistair, I know dozens of people from Northern Ireland, probably about 70-30 Protestants over the years, and they’re all somewhat embarrassed by the state of the province’s politics. Given that most of them choose to live over here, that’s not surprising. But what I’m not doing is indulging in I’ll-informed rhetoric. The peace is fragile. The arms that the DUP, under the guise of Ulster Resistance, helped to smuggle in (used in 70 murders) were never decommissioned, they’re still stockpiled. And there was plenty of black loyalist humour online about “getting the boys back together”, when the arguments about Jezza and the DUP started to rage.
Now, you ask would ,Corbyn have sought a similar deal with Sinn Féin. History would suggest not, but as they’ve already sat in Stormont and been democratically elected, I wouldn’t have any problem with them sitting in Westminster. I can’t see it, though, and, to be honest, standing for election and not recognising the institution you’re standing for seems a pointless gesture these days. Along with most moderate people, I wish the politics of Northern Ireland were divided along class lines like the rest of the UK, rather than religion, nationalism and loyalism. What is interesting, though, is that despite our appalling electoral system, we have ended up with a parliament that represents public opinion and will put a brake on austerity, hard Brexit etc.
Pleased also to see our Steve clarifying a few points above. I think it’s too simplistic to describe the events of recent weeks as tragedies; they have causes and many of them are political. Had Andy Burnham not intervened for the Hillsborough families, would we be seeing today’s charges against the police? But I agree there is blame on all sides and there is a lot to be gained from parties working together in the national interest. I never called you a Tory, Steve; I’ve always seen you as essentially nonconformist, which is a healthy place to be.
So, the circumstances might have been tragic but I’m encouraged by the last few weeks in politics. As a prominent Conservstive said today, the electorate are being offered something genuinely of the left for the first time since 1945 and they seem to want to give it a hearing. What did the other parties have to offer young people – suffering insecure work, rising debt and no chance of a house – at this election? Precisely nothing. There will have to be a debate about what Conservatism actually means and who it is meant to appeal to before the next election. They could learn a lot from Corbyn on that front.
The Flaming Lips, Lemon Twigs, Sleaford Mods, Charli XCX, Solange, Avalanches and Yorkston/Thorne/Khan were the only things I wish I’d have been there for (besides Corbyn’s speech, of course).
There’s those with no religion and those who don’t vote, too, but I don’t know anything – I’m in a London bubble apparently! For the record, Alistair, I know dozens of people from Northern Ireland, probably about 70-30 Protestants over the years, and they’re all somewhat embarrassed by the state of the province’s politics. Given that most of them choose to live over here, that’s not surprising. But what I’m not doing is indulging in I’ll-informed rhetoric. The peace is fragile. The arms that the DUP, under the guise of Ulster Resistance, helped to smuggle in (used in 70 murders) were never decommissioned, they’re still stockpiled. And there was plenty of black loyalist humour online about “getting the boys back together”, when the arguments about Jezza and the DUP started to rage.quote]
Martin, give your head a nudge lad; cos it’s still full of those 1970s images of the Falls road, the Bogside or Drumcree and the stereotypes that the media unwittingly created through unbalanced coverage throughout that period. I suggested you spend at least two years working and living in Northern Ireland ( like I did before and after the GFA , then you would be better informed on how life really is in the provinces. Apart from knowing hundreds of residents in Northern Ireland, of all denominations & beliefs, I also used the opportunity to research the history of the troubles and how it’s drivers changed over time. Yes there are some truly horrific events to reflect upon; but despite that, I see an overwhelming desire to keep the peace of the last 16 years. Even during my time in NI, it was only a disenchanted minority that sought to disrupt life. My last trip was about 18 months ago; and yes I had a leisurely stroll around the Bogside ! Why not, take time out and go undercover in the Provinces and do some proper first hand journalistic research; you might shock yourself ! Martin, in simple terms you are akin to someone who looks at Millwall and declares that all football fans are hooligans. Maybe today’s journalist is a desk bound cyber warrior :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Yes Al but it is possible to form an opinion on a subject without having a wealth of first hand experience. Most of us on the board are wannabe managers and likewise someone’s opinion isn’t worthless because they have worked out an opinion from information they have experienced and studied. I can give a view on the state of the DW pitch with a lifetimes experience of working in Horticulture but that view is based on transferable skills and experiences rather than working directly as a grounds professional.
Still going to be one up top Al this season, what dust think of that?I appreciate what you’re saying, Ali, but I do tire of this idea that there’s some kind of London bubble that isolates people from “the real world”. I don’t go around telling people they live in a Ribble Valley bubble, or need to spend 18 months in Ladbroke Grove before they can pontificate on the Grenfell tower fire, do I? As Steve says, it’s a football messageboard; we spend half our lives telling well-paid professionals how to do their jobs.
I agree that NI has changed, and that the majority of people want the peace to prevail; why wouldn’t they? But how can it be described as anything but fragile, when it relies upon an electoral system designed to mirror the religious demographic, and when so many politicians on both sides were involved in gun-running, extortion, punishment beatings or worse? Jeremy Corbyn has spoken many times about peace not being possible until all communities respect one another’s traditions and way of life (the transition of power in South Africa proves this is possible, not just hippy talk). But you started your comments on this argument with the assertion that “at least the DUP are loyal to the flag and the Queen”. So you’ve shown yourself to be about as impartial Theresa May when it comes to that part of the world. Loyalists are nutters but they’re our nutters: is that what you are saying?
On a historical note, rather than my argument being stuck in 70s images of the troubles, most of the DUP’s activities shipping guns from Lebanon and South Africa actually took place in response to their contempt for the Good Friday agreement. Indeed, they were the last party to agree to the very thing that has brought peace to the province. The DUP’s MP for Belfast South saw her father arrested in Paris over the gun-running. And these guns (plus 20,000 rounds of ammunition and a stolen surface to air missile) were used in 70 murders, including a massacre in a bookies in her own constituency. Her old man, who’s still alive, says the guns, bought with proceeds of a bank robbery by the UDA and UVF who lost their share of the arms cache fairly quickly, were never decommissioned (although this may just be fighting talk). But still, not much respect for the peace process or the traditions of their neighbours among Theresa May’s new allies, is there?
I’m quite happy to sit tight knowing deep down that A- Theresa May won’t be leader of the Tory Party for much longer and B- Labour are a ‘Shoe In’ to win the next election which won’t be too far off either!
London Bubble people enjoying a game of football. Got to be true about the London Bubble, cos I’ve read about it and now I’ve seen it :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
While there are no certainties in politics, it’s even more remarkable to think that they’ll be doing it by coming in from the left rather than the centre ground. The. consensus has definitely shifted in recent weeks. But when Conservatism, whatever that means, can’t keep people from going hungry or feeling safe in their homes, it was perhaps inevitable.
Another interesting thing about Corbyn: for how long after the crash did people say they wanted a politician who travelled on the bus like them, lived In an ordinary house like them, and would just give a straight answer to a straight question? Then, as soon as they’re offered one, they prefer to go along with a 40-year-old smear based on a distortion of his political beliefs. I think the onus is now on the Tories to put a decent offer to the people, stop making deals to shore up their own position while telling us there’s no money, and end this negative campaigning that has backfired so badly.
Speaking of Glastonbury flags (which we weren’t)a couple of years back there was a Purple Acky flag in front of the stage.
I live on a social housing estate and from the amount of home deliveries of takeaways arriving at all times there aren’t many going hungry on this estate. Possibly over the road where people live beyond their means purchasing ridiculously priced houses.
I also work with young people of which many of them do go hungry but they go hungry from abuse and neglect by adults choosing drugs, alcohol and flat screen TVs rather than feeding the children. This again is a social problem not born from Conservatism or socialism but from a steady decay of society which gets worse year in year out. When Jezza rides his white stallion down Whitehall these problems will still be there no matter how much cash is thrown at it. More cash to some is more drugs and more booze and to others an even bigger house. Could Jezza really change things for low earners ie minimum wage couples or singles with a ridiculous rent to pay. They’re the ones who go hungry.I live on a social housing estate and from the amount of home deliveries of takeaways arriving at all times there aren’t many going hungry on this estate. Possibly over the road where people live beyond their means purchasing ridiculously priced houses.
I also work with young people of which many of them do go hungry but they go hungry from abuse and neglect by adults choosing drugs, alcohol and flat screen TVs rather than feeding the children. This again is a social problem not born from Conservatism or socialism but from a steady decay of society which gets worse year in year out. When Jezza rides his white stallion down Whitehall these problems will still be there no matter how much cash is thrown at it. More cash to some is more drugs and more booze and to others an even bigger house. Could Jezza really change things for low earners ie minimum wage couples or singles with a ridiculous rent to pay. They’re the ones who go hungry.Interesting post Donny !
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