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I’ve been offered a deal. Apparently, if i let a bloke take £350 out of my bank account each week, he’s going to give me vouchers worth £180, which i can only spend on things he’s decided i can have, at shops which he’s also decided for me.
In return he is allowing me fishing rights in my private lake (and lets me keep a few fish a year) he’s going to let me buy things from his friends and family (German cars, French wine etc) His friends and family can also come and see me whenever they feel like it, and i can send pocket money to his children back home.
He also states that my taxes and NHS treatment go to his mates residing in this country that haven’t contributed!
Now should i accept this offer, (or anything similar?)
Pakistan is also a member of the Commonwealth.
Ps. That’s completely inaccurate.
The top three countires of origin for immigrants into UK are India, Pakistan and Poland – so only one is in EU.
And 61% of those arriving into UK already have a job before they get here.
But let’s not allow the facts to get in the way etc etc.[/quote]
India is part of the Commonwealth so I have no problem with Indian Nationals having settled here.
If the figure of 61% having already attained employment over here was a lot nearer100% then that too would be acceptable. Its the 49% who are allowed to come to our Country as economical migrants that I have reservations about.
I know the rules are the same for us, and we could do the same and go to Hungary and Poland etc, but would that interest that many British?
I am also okay with migrants escaping terror in their homeland, but the majotity appear to be young fit men, not women and children who are most at risk. The inbalance is worrying and I think that is what most people have a problem with.
Some say that the migrants are here taking jobs, that is bollox as most are here doing jobs anyone can put in for, but can’t be arsed. If the unemployed of this country were made to take the jobs, then there would be far fewer opportunities over here for the migrants to take advantage of.
Overall I think if Britain was to sort itself out this vote would not have come about as the migrant problem does appear to be a major part of it.
There are many other reasons for voting for or against, and I was on the fence for a while, but due to the bullying and scaremongering by the remain campaign, they have made my mind up totally, and I will be voting OUT.[/quote]Pakistan is also a member of the Commonwealth. So the rules for Indians coming into the UK apply to people from Pakistan in equal measure.
And though I agree that in an ideal world 100% of people coming into the UK would have a job before they get here, 85% of Indian migrants in UK are classed as employed, and 80% of EU migrants – so it suggests that they soon find work when they get here.
Plus, on the benefits issue, of all the people who claim benefits, 2.5% are from other EU countries, 5% are from outside EU and 92.5% of benefit claimants are British.
I was also on the fence for a while, but the comments being banded about regarding migrants don’t seem to stack up, and the Leave campaign don’t have anything else to offer.
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*Round of applause.
Awaits the obligatory ‘But it’s what our granddads fought for’ comment*
(*Note: it’s not. They fought for peace in Western Europe – and that’s exactly what the EU has given us)[/quote]
Nowt to do with Dictatorship then ?[/quote]
Of course it’s because there are no dictatorships, facist uprisings etc, but it’s being part of a united Europe that prevents that happening.[/quote]A dictatorship can be a person or a political entity; so you had better think again.[/quote]
You’re not getting this are you?If a dictator suddenly appeared in one of the EU countries and took control of that country, what do you think the rest of the EU would do?[/quote]
Apologies, but you’re the thick one that cannot grasp the situation. What do you call a bunch of Dictators, because the European Parliament are fast developing in that direction. Take Back Control and put the Great back into Great Britain. There are at least five other nations who are watching GB with much interest and will be the next to follow our lead. That’s what Britain do best, we are leaders not followers !
I’ve been offered a deal. Apparently, if i let a bloke take £350 out of my bank account each week, he’s going to give me vouchers worth £180, which i can only spend on things he’s decided i can have, at shops which he’s also decided for me.
In return he is allowing me fishing rights in my private lake (and lets me keep a few fish a year) he’s going to let me buy things from his friends and family (German cars, French wine etc) His friends and family can also come and see me whenever they feel like it, and i can send pocket money to his children back home.
He also states that my taxes and NHS treatment go to his mates residing in this country that haven’t contributed!
Now should i accept this offer, (or anything similar?)
Ps. That’s completely inaccurate.
The top three countires of origin for immigrants into UK are India, Pakistan and Poland – so only one is in EU.
And 61% of those arriving into UK already have a job before they get here.
But let’s not allow the facts to get in the way etc etc.[/quote]
Is that really something to take positives from? That means 39% are coming into our country to make a negative impact on our economy. The 61% obviously have jobs that our own fellow countrymen could have.
Cameron has been using these employment figures not just for this referendum, but for the Tory campaign as well. Although on the plus side, 80% of the 61% are on minimum wage or below.
Traditionally our university / college students and young people in general have filled the low paid jobs in order to get a bit of money together out of term time, or as a filler in until they get something better, no chance now.This is just one issue, there are loads more, but there has been nobody and I mean nobody, from Bleave or Brexit who has sold either option to me. You mention facts, when in reality, there are no facts. Politicians and financial gurus are second guessing what will happen if we leave, that’s all they can do.
I suppose this vote to stay or leave is akin to investing your savings. Do you protect your banked money and get just a small interest return, or do you take a chance on the market, to potentially get a far bigger return, but with the added risk of it going paps up.
There’s part of me saying that things in this country are currently moving in the wrong direction at the moment,so lets take a chance. I’m at that stage in my life where I own everything I’ve got, I have my sights on retirement so what the eck. The other part of me is looking at my kids and grand kids and thinking, what does the future hold?, this vote will shape their future.
I honestly don’t know how I will vote, but what I do know, is that this can be debated all night long but there is nobody on CL that will convince me one way or the other. :blink:From Matlock to ManU
What a journey!I’ve been offered a deal. Apparently, if i let a bloke take £350 out of my bank account each week, he’s going to give me vouchers worth £180, which i can only spend on things he’s decided i can have, at shops which he’s also decided for me.
In return he is allowing me fishing rights in my private lake (and lets me keep a few fish a year) he’s going to let me buy things from his friends and family (German cars, French wine etc) His friends and family can also come and see me whenever they feel like it, and i can send pocket money to his children back home.
He also states that my taxes and NHS treatment go to his mates residing in this country that haven’t contributed!
Now should i accept this offer, (or anything similar?)
Ps. That’s completely inaccurate.
The top three countires of origin for immigrants into UK are India, Pakistan and Poland – so only one is in EU.
And 61% of those arriving into UK already have a job before they get here.
But let’s not allow the facts to get in the way etc etc.[/quote]
Is that really something to take positives from? That means 39% are coming into our country to make a negative impact on our economy. The 61% obviously have jobs that our own fellow countrymen could have.
Cameron has been using these employment figures not just for this referendum, but for the Tory campaign as well. Although on the plus side, 80% of the 61% are on minimum wage or below.
Traditionally our university / college students and young people in general have filled the low paid jobs in order to get a bit of money together out of term time, or as a filler in until they get something better, no chance now.This is just one issue, there are loads more, but there has been nobody and I mean nobody, from Bleave or Brexit who has sold either option to me. You mention facts, when in reality, there are no facts. Politicians and financial gurus are second guessing what will happen if we leave, that’s all they can do.
I suppose this vote to stay or leave is akin to investing your savings. Do you protect your banked money and get just a small interest return, or do you take a chance on the market, to potentially get a far bigger return, but with the added risk of it going paps up.
There’s part of me saying that things in this country are currently moving in the wrong direction at the moment,so lets take a chance. I’m at that stage in my life where I own everything I’ve got, I have my sights on retirement so what the eck. The other part of me is looking at my kids and grand kids and thinking, what does the future hold?, this vote will shape their future.
I honestly don’t know how I will vote, but what I do know, is that this can be debated all night long but there is nobody on CL that will convince me one way or the other. :blink:[/quote]Well JR, I have you down as one of the most sensible posters on this site; so let me put it to you like this:
Ambition is what made this country so great, ambition is what made Dave Whelan a success, and that ambition took Wigan Athletic to it’s pinnacle. People with ambition are not deterred by safety first, are not deterred by negativity, are not people who allow others to make the decisions for them. Ambition is only feared by the competition, in an attempt to supress supremacy. Time and time again this is repeated throughout history. It’s about time we let our ambition shape our destiny. VOTE OUT !
Papa; ignore Standish W**ker, he’s in a time warp, yon mon :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:Standish W**ker.
Very good that. Original.
Do you know what The Standish Walker was?
Apologies, but you’re the thick one that cannot grasp the situation. What do you call a bunch of Dictators, because the European Parliament are fast developing in that direction. Take Back Control and put the Great back into Great Britain. There are at least five other nations who are watching GB with much interest and will be the next to follow our lead. That’s what Britain do best, we are leaders not followers !A Dictator is the sole ruler with absolute power. They are usually unopposed and have no democratic successor.
Therefore, you can’t have more than one dictator in a single parliament.
The European Parliament are elected, and can be unelected.
But I’m betting you already knew this?
And who’s calling who thick? I never mentioned that word, only that you didn’t seem to understand what I was saying.
Well JR, I have you down as one of the most sensible posters on this site; so let me put it to you like this:Ambition is what made this country so great, ambition is what made Dave Whelan a success, and that ambition took Wigan Athletic to it’s pinnacle. People with ambition are not deterred by safety first, are not deterred by negativity, are not people who allow others to make the decisions for them. Ambition is only feared by the competition, in an attempt to supress supremacy. Time and time again this is repeated throughout history. It’s about time we let our ambition shape our destiny. VOTE OUT !
Ambition is wonderful, but what are you backing it up with?
There’s a strong possibility that we’ll lose our pitch in the market-place.
We lack raw materials.
We import more than we export.
Our work-force is too expensive and raw materials too inaccessible to compete with other countries.
Most of our famous brands are owned by overseas companies.
If we pull out of the EU, many overseas companies that base their European headquarters here will move them elsewhere.
That’s my take on it.
But, go on. A genuine question: how will we fulfil this ambition? (see, no insults)
Is that really something to take positives from? That means 39% are coming into our country to make a negative impact on our economy. The 61% obviously have jobs that our own fellow countrymen could have.
Cameron has been using these employment figures not just for this referendum, but for the Tory campaign as well. Although on the plus side, 80% of the 61% are on minimum wage or below.
Traditionally our university / college students and young people in general have filled the low paid jobs in order to get a bit of money together out of term time, or as a filler in until they get something better, no chance now.This is just one issue, there are loads more, but there has been nobody and I mean nobody, from Bleave or Brexit who has sold either option to me. You mention facts, when in reality, there are no facts. Politicians and financial gurus are second guessing what will happen if we leave, that’s all they can do.
I suppose this vote to stay or leave is akin to investing your savings. Do you protect your banked money and get just a small interest return, or do you take a chance on the market, to potentially get a far bigger return, but with the added risk of it going paps up.
There’s part of me saying that things in this country are currently moving in the wrong direction at the moment,so lets take a chance. I’m at that stage in my life where I own everything I’ve got, I have my sights on retirement so what the eck. The other part of me is looking at my kids and grand kids and thinking, what does the future hold?, this vote will shape their future.
I honestly don’t know how I will vote, but what I do know, is that this can be debated all night long but there is nobody on CL that will convince me one way or the other. :blink:JR, see my post after that. 85% are classed as employed – therefore they get jobs soon after they arrive.
92% of benefits are claimed by British people.
Papa; ignore Standish W**ker, he’s in a time warp, yon mon :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:Oh dear, are you sure you are allowed a vote?
This thread shows up the 2 areas of the campaign, sense, facts and realism versus people talking about fishing and immigrants, two grasp areas that nobody on this thread is troubled by. If you lived in inner city Birmingham or London I could understand it but the ghettos of Lostock Hall, Ince & Springfield?
I drive through Lostock Hall every day and the only thing there is a caravan seller,a KFC and a train station. Are all the immigrants coming in by train, buying all the caravans and eating your chicken?
So if its a level playing field being in the EU then how come that when the serial dummy spitters have the hump they are allowed to blockade the ports strangulating Britain costing a fortune in lost trade.
The French are a nation of strikers, as seen during the Euro’s, I don’t see how us coming out will change that. If anything, coming out will change for the worse at the French borders.
We don’t mind a strike either, always backed by a Union, such as a truckers strike. Unions will cease to exist should we come out under a Tory government.
I think if you have a point you are keen on arguing in the effort to leave, you have to think the option to leave would make that particular argument better. I can’t see anyone answering their issues with any reason why leaving would make those concerns better, yet we’d be on our own from that point with a failing currency.
To leave would take approximately 2 years, the value of our currency will fall within seconds. Be careful what you wish for, the alternative is usually worse.
RIP Jo Cox – horrific
As John Major correctly observed, Gove had wanted to privatise the NHS, Johnson wished to charge people for health services and Duncan Smith advocated moving to a social insurance system.
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python,” Major said on BBC1’s The Andrew Marr Show.
Indeed be careful what you wish for.
Well JR, I have you down as one of the most sensible posters on this site; so let me put it to you like this:
Ambition is what made this country so great, ambition is what made Dave Whelan a success, and that ambition took Wigan Athletic to it’s pinnacle. People with ambition are not deterred by safety first, are not deterred by negativity, are not people who allow others to make the decisions for them. Ambition is only feared by the competition, in an attempt to supress supremacy. Time and time again this is repeated throughout history. It’s about time we let our ambition shape our destiny. VOTE OUT !
Ambition is wonderful, but what are you backing it up with?
There’s a strong possibility that we’ll lose our pitch in the market-place.
We lack raw materials.
We import more than we export.
Our work-force is too expensive and raw materials too inaccessible to compete with other countries.
Most of our famous brands are owned by overseas companies.
If we pull out of the EU, many overseas companies that base their European headquarters here will move them elsewhere.
That’s my take on it.
But, go on. A genuine question: how will we fulfil this ambition? (see, no insults)[/quote]
Standish W, your logic is flawed,
Out of Europe, our pitch has suddenly become much larger and we will be able to negotiate directly with trading countries, rather than taking what the European Government negotiate on our behalf.
Raw materials: our raw materials have basically been sourced on a global basis for a very long time; most of which come from outside Europe. for example, most of our coal now comes from South America or Russia.
As a well established importer we are actually in a strong negotiating position, given that the state of the global economy lends itself to a Buyers market, and will do so for several years. Countries aren’t doing us a favour by selling us their products; they need our money and money talks. Do a simple sanity check, and check the provenance of everything that your household purchases in the next month; and I guess that the majority will originate from outside of Europe.
Labour rates & materials. Your argument does not apply in the whole. When products are labour intensive to produce, buyers naturally gravitate to low cost labour territories. A good example of this is the rag trade. However, in manufacturing, mechanisation is the key and it is the technology and ingenuity that you find in our well developed country that is able to reverse that trend by developing sophisticated processes that keep labour input to an absolute minimum. Good examples of this are high volume injection mouldings & electronics. As a Global Commodity Manager I have countless examples of this during a career working for several Blue Chip Companies. Also, a high proportion of basic raw materials are traded globally as commodities and you will find very little price differential across the markets. Again, this comes from my experience of purchasing base resins from a world wide market. Just forgot to mention, when I worked for Volvo I had the pleasure of visiting one of their factories that produce 12 Lt diesel engines; at a rate of 24,000 per year with a work force of 20 employees.
There are still plenty of UK Brands that don’t rely on foreign investment; ie JCB, Barbour, Burberry, McClaren Technology,Dyson,Clarks,etc Ask yourself why foreign investors want to get their hands on our prestigious brands in the first place ?
Companies will come and leave the UK as they chase access to low cost territories via the UK as a stepping stone. Good examples of this tend to be American; Caterpillar & Terex are two such examples who use our trading links to sell product into developing countries where they find access difficult. So yes companies may choose to leave, but they will inevitably be replaced by others with new motives for using the UK as a platform. Whichever way, I wouldn’t anticipate a knee jerk reaction, because the cost of upheaval could far outweigh the actual benefit !
Voting out is a vote of confidence in this great nation, in the fortitude of it’s proud people to succeed. It’s a bit like supporting the underdog that is “little Wigan Athletic”. How good does success feel; you know what I mean.
That said my VOTE OUT is based on years of global experience in a high integrity manufacturing arena,that is the World, and which the “little UK” strive to maintain their position at No 5.
Well JR, I have you down as one of the most sensible posters on this site; so let me put it to you like this:
Ambition is what made this country so great, ambition is what made Dave Whelan a success, and that ambition took Wigan Athletic to it’s pinnacle. People with ambition are not deterred by safety first, are not deterred by negativity, are not people who allow others to make the decisions for them. Ambition is only feared by the competition, in an attempt to supress supremacy. Time and time again this is repeated throughout history. It’s about time we let our ambition shape our destiny. VOTE OUT !
Ambition is wonderful, but what are you backing it up with?
There’s a strong possibility that we’ll lose our pitch in the market-place.
We lack raw materials.
We import more than we export.
Our work-force is too expensive and raw materials too inaccessible to compete with other countries.
Most of our famous brands are owned by overseas companies.
If we pull out of the EU, many overseas companies that base their European headquarters here will move them elsewhere.
That’s my take on it.
But, go on. A genuine question: how will we fulfil this ambition? (see, no insults)[/quote]
Standish W, your logic is flawed,
Out of Europe, our pitch has suddenly become much larger and we will be able to negotiate directly with trading countries, rather than taking what the European Government negotiate on our behalf.
Raw materials: our raw materials have basically been sourced on a global basis for a very long time; most of which come from outside Europe. for example, most of our coal now comes from South America or Russia.
As a well established importer we are actually in a strong negotiating position, given that the state of the global economy lends itself to a Buyers market, and will do so for several years. Countries aren’t doing us a favour by selling us their products; they need our money and money talks. Do a simple sanity check, and check the provenance of everything that your household purchases in the next month; and I guess that the majority will originate from outside of Europe.
Labour rates & materials. Your argument does not apply in the whole. When products are labour intensive to produce, buyers naturally gravitate to low cost labour territories. A good example of this is the rag trade. However, in manufacturing, mechanisation is the key and it is the technology and ingenuity that you find in our well developed country that is able to reverse that trend by developing sophisticated processes that keep labour input to an absolute minimum. Good examples of this are high volume injection mouldings & electronics. As a Global Commodity Manager I have countless examples of this during a career working for several Blue Chip Companies. Also, a high proportion of basic raw materials are traded globally as commodities and you will find very little price differential across the markets. Again, this comes from my experience of purchasing base resins from a world wide market. Just forgot to mention, when I worked for Volvo I had the pleasure of visiting one of their factories that produce 12 Lt diesel engines; at a rate of 24,000 per year with a work force of 20 employees.
There are still plenty of UK Brands that don’t rely on foreign investment; ie JCB, Barbour, Burberry, McClaren Technology,Dyson,Clarks,etc Ask yourself why foreign investors want to get their hands on our prestigious brands in the first place ?
Companies will come and leave the UK as they chase access to low cost territories via the UK as a stepping stone. Good examples of this tend to be American; Caterpillar & Terex are two such examples who use our trading links to sell product into developing countries where they find access difficult. So yes companies may choose to leave, but they will inevitably be replaced by others with new motives for using the UK as a platform. Whichever way, I wouldn’t anticipate a knee jerk reaction, because the cost of upheaval could far outweigh the actual benefit !
Voting out is a vote of confidence in this great nation, in the fortitude of it’s proud people to succeed. It’s a bit like supporting the underdog that is “little Wigan Athletic”. How good does success feel; you know what I mean.
That said my VOTE OUT is based on years of global experience in a high integrity manufacturing arena,that is the World, and which the “little UK” strive to maintain their position at No 5.[/quote]
Well said LHL, it is good to read the views of someone from the business world with such a wealth of knowledge and experience.
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