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Standish,
you talk rubbish. How can you say players won’t come when we’ve attracted them in the past?Okay. You’re right, I’m wrong.
So you don’t think we are low on the pecking order when it comes to attracting players?[/quote]
Sorry, I didn’t mean to get you upset Standish. I just don’t think we are as low down the list as you and bobby think. I mean, we’re not paying peanuts are we? Did you see that pic of Titus n Cats in the mirror last week? Let’s just say Bobby can do better with his signings.
PS I dont think I used the word “established” so you could be wrong again.There’s that much sh!t being posted on this thread it should be moved to the non-football forum!
We are in a similar position to the likes of Wolves, Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton, Stoke, Hull, Portsmouth, etc.
All the above bar maybe 2 teams are bigger clubs than us and have been in the PL far longer (over time). If a player is given the option to join 1 of the above clubs or us where would be ranked? Roberto has managed to convince a few players to choose Wigan over other clubs so that’s good work on his part.
What we have is ambition, that is used regularly by Roberto and has been in the past with Bruce in charge when he talked about signing Zog and Catts.
Who have the likes of Wolves, Burnley and Hull signed recently? They are teams who have to gamble on overseas players at low prices and the odd English player from the Championship or a Premiership fringe player. We are all in the same boat but some people on here think we should be on par with the likes of Villa, Spurs, Everton, etc. Maybe one day but not just yet!
Standish,
you talk rubbish. How can you say players won’t come when we’ve attracted them in the past?Okay. You’re right, I’m wrong.
So you don’t think we are low on the pecking order when it comes to attracting players?[/quote]
Sorry, I didn’t mean to get you upset Standish. I just don’t think we are as low down the list as you and bobby think. I mean, we’re not paying peanuts are we? Did you see that pic of Titus n Cats in the mirror last week? Let’s just say Bobby can do better with his signings.
PS I dont think I used the word “established” so you could be wrong again.[/quote]I’m far from upset, I just couldn’t be bothered arguing!
Maybe we are not paying peanuts, but we are paying considerably less than a lot of teams in the league. Whelan is trying to make the club debt-free, so that means ditching the deadwood, and cutting the wage bill.
If you were a Premier League player, what would make you want to move to Wigan? It’s certainly not the promise of European football, the chance to move to the capital, or the prestige of playing for a club with years of tradition and history behind it.
Then, add to that a weekly wage that competes with that which is available by the likes of Burnley, Wolves, Blackburn, Hull and possibly Fulham.
All you are going to attract are the players at the end of their careers who want another chance to play in the Premier League, those who see Wigan as a stepping stone to bigger things, and those who other clubs are not willing to take a chance on.
Didn’t see the photo of Cattermole and Bramble. What were they up to?
Perhaps we should put an offer in for Gerrard this summer?
He looks a bit unsettled at Liverpool. :roll:
I’m with Standish on this one. No matter what anybody wants to believe, we are still as unfashionable a club that is in the Premiership.
“What about Hull?”, I hear you say. Have you seen their financial situation? if they get relegated this season, and I believe they may well be, they will be in ‘Sh*t Street, Arizona”, to quote Mick McCarthy. They could well go a similar route to Bradford City. They have paid some daft money, with little in return, and could well pay the price. And look at Portsmouth? A big club like that, with great support, a club that has a whole town solidly behind it. Yet they are in a god awful mess. Why? Overspending. Some blame Harry Redknapp. That’s rubbish. He wasn’t controlling the finances.
To be fare, out of the current bottom 3, only Burnley will probably BENEFIT from going down. Why? Because they haven’t gone stupid on daft signings, and that parachute money would be a windfall for them. It’s a fine line between spending on enough quality to stay up, and not spending enough, and being relegated.For whatever reason, and despite our frustration at ‘better quality signings’, Wigan Athletic FC, as a club, have done it all the right way. We haven’t gone daft, like if we’d signed Owen and paid him £80,000 a week, and he’s played 8 games, or something, before being injured. The worst thing has been the money spent on certain players who haven’t delivered, notably Marlon King (who we got lucky with, and were able to get shut), Agahowa, who came with a decent reputation, but never looke likely, but also a few more who are STILL on our books. We HAVE wasted a lot of money. We still are doing. We have had 5 players on our books who have not contributed to the squad, or who have minimally. (Koumas) A couple have been loaned out, with us still paying a percentage. Fact is, added up, we have been paying over £100,000 a week in ‘dead’ wages. I mean, nothing in return. That has to be a priority. Get shut, by hook or by crook, and use that 100k a week to pay THREE quality players, who will contribute something to the squad, a decent wage.
But let’s have it right. We are not going to start signing top-class players. It just won’t happen. We have to take a chance on players, and also look for talented young players, who we can develop. The fact is, if we have a couple of seasons out of the likes of James McCarthy, we’ll have done well. I also think that Diame is a quality player, and you can see why Barcelona were being linked with him. My own jury is still out on Moreno, but I’m keen to see what happens if and when he finally sticks the ball in the net. His overall game has improved, and maybe that’s all he needs, for some confidence?
You got it wrong Vat. Stevie G isn’t good enough. Messi is the man for us.
In all honestly, even though I get tarred with the ‘superfan’ brush, it’s because I’m realistic about the club. I’d be very surprised if we ever reached another domestic final, and I don’t hold out much hope of having to keep back some of my annual leave to use for European away games.
Our squad will always consist of journeymen, last chancers, up and coming young players – who are lured with the promise of regular first team football and unknowns, and the players we have who happen to make a name for themselves will be off to bigger clubs within a season or two.If we lose some supporters along the way who are sick of mediocrity, then so be it. At least there will be more spare seats on which to rest my size twelve hooves.
At the end of the day the top clubs get first dibs on all potentially good players as the players in question undoubtedly want European football and a great big wage to boot ! Even the likes of Villa, a big club with a big fan base and history will no doubt have to let Millner go to Utd ( As suspected ) in the summer ! Thats just the way it is and thats why we will invariably end up with the same top clubs vying for the title year in year out ! Add to that the wage demands of the top players from around the Globe wanting in on these clubs ( which are usually met ) and that further bolsters their respective chances ! The above then applies to the next tier of sides who will get 2nd dibs on the half decent players on offer from the bottom tier sides and you have a ” Dog Eat Dog ” scenario ! All we can do is to keep finding good players who will come in and do a job for us until we reluctantly or willingly let them go onto bigger things ! Thats the way it will always be I’m afraid to say !
You got it wrong Vat. Stevie G isn’t good enough. Messi is the man for us.In all honestly, even though I get tarred with the ‘superfan’ brush, it’s because I’m realistic about the club. I’d be very surprised if we ever reached another domestic final, and I don’t hold out much hope of having to keep back some of my annual leave to use for European away games.
Our squad will always consist of journeymen, last chancers, up and coming young players – who are lured with the promise of regular first team football and unknowns, and the players we have who happen to make a name for themselves will be off to bigger clubs within a season or two.If we lose some supporters along the way who are sick of mediocrity, then so be it. At least there will be more spare seats on which to rest my size twelve hooves.
I’d like to think that in a season or two, perhaps we COULD sneak into the Europa League. But then again, it could actually kill us, because we never operate with a big squad, and a regular Wed-Sat-Thurs-Sun routine could be a step too far. The thought of playing someone like Juventus at the DW, or maybe Ajax away would be an amazing experience. I used to dream of us playing in a major final, never thinking it would happen…..and it happened. (I just wish it had been at the new Wembley, rather than played in-door at Cardiff.)
I once (in all honesty) dreamt of us playing Ajax away……will that happen? Might do, might not.
As a club, should we survive this season, we need to look at Fulham, and use them as a blueprint. They’ve been building for 2 or 3 seasons, and are reaping the rewards. (I think they can beat Wolfsburg, as well)I think you might be right with what you say. Perhaps we have had our ‘greatest moments’, in the cup final, and the first season we had. I think you might also be right with what you say about the type of players we will sign. I admit I have blown ‘hot and cold’ this season, and sat on the fence at times. But having come to the conclusion that Premiership or Championship, I’ll still be there, I just have to get on with things and accept whatever happens. I’m even looking forward to our new strip! Is that sad? I’m not really a regular replica buyer, (My last was the Umbro shirt) but i’m thinking next seasons kit HAS to be better than this ones.
In fact, MOST THINGS next season, have to be better than this, regardless of what league we are in. But I am being realistic, regarding a lot of things, signings, etc. We are Wigan Athletic. Until 5 years ago, most of the world hadn’t even heard of us. Now you speak to somebody on holiday, and they have heard of us. My friend went to Egypt last year, and said he was stunned to see loads of locals wearing our shirt. (Bad holiday-type copies. My mate said they were better made than the REAL ones! LOL)
“the phrase I used was ‘ready-made Premier League players'”
Perhaps the confusion between us comes from that phrase. I think you’re using it to describe established premier league players & I take it to mean players who are ready (no matter who or where they’ve been signed from) to hit the ground running as competent top flight players.
That is my issue with Bobby’s signings. Jewell, Hutchings & Bruce before him had to look in the bargain bin for players & all managed to pick up players who slotted right in. Yes it also meant they picked up their fair share of absolute duffers who would never be good enough in a million years but they still managed to pick up enough who were good enough (even Hutchings)
IMO however I don’t think Bobby has signed one player who has been able to hit the ground running at this level with the possible exception of Caldwell (although I stand by my previous comment that he still has a fair bit to prove). They’ve all needed time to bed in & get adjusted to playing in this division
My belief is that a team like Wigan Athletic can’t afford to sign players with “potential” unless they can either produce the goods at a fairly decent level anyway or unless someone who is able to hit the ground running is brought in (say on loan) alongside them. The problem you have with bringing so many players in who need time to bed in is that by the time they start to adapt they’re stuck in a relegation battle & confidence is at rock bottom
Couple that with signing players who quite clearly will never be up to the job at this level – Scotland, Gomez, Amaya etc..
The money that’s been spent on these players with “potential” or who just aren’t up to it could have been spent on some established top flight players who could be picked up relatively cheap as McLeish had done before he got the wads of that fella from Hong KongSo to me its not an either or situation. You can do both – Bobby’s put all his eggs in the “sign up & coming players basket” &, personally, I don’t think its worked & was the wrong move to start with
The problem is for teams like Wigan is that they need to keep re-inventing themselves. We buy players who are good, they want to move on, average players and championships level players will stick around but they wont keep us up. So year after year we need to bring in new players. The lack of stable management at the club since we have been in the premiership hasnt helped.
Its like a lottery, one year in 10 we might hit the Europa league, equally we might go down. Teams like Sjoke and Sunderland will find it harder to keep players unless they pay good money,which then puts the clubs future at risk.
As I said before Tyldesley, the post wasn’t aimed at you, and was meant as a response to callmeishmael’s claims last week that we should be signing ‘top players’ (I stand corrected; he didn’t say ‘established’ players, but ‘top players’ is pretty much the same in my book)
You’re totally correct in what you’re about Martinez putting all his eggs in one basket with the up and coming players. I too would have preferred him to sign one or two journeymen to fit straight into the team, plus signing some exciting young players.
Why he hasn’t done this is only known to Martinez and Whelan. Perhaps Martinez has been given stricter wage constraints than previous managers, or perhaps he has just chosen not to do so as part of a masterplan. Maybe even, he approached players but they didn’t want to play for him or the club.
I’ll not get into the old pro/anti Martinez debate, as I know we don’t agree on that, but I am hoping that this is indeed a cunning plan to survive and take stock this season, then gather together a good young squad who he can mould into a decent side (maybe he doesn’t command respect as of yet with older more experienced players?) It could prove to be stroke of genius, but equally his complete undoing.
I believe we went after that Athletico Madrid goalkeeper, who is highly rated, but they wouldn’t sell him to us, and he has now got a settled place with them.
Incidentally, I’ve just been looking at the Burnley programme. I admit, I am jumping the gun here, especially when we still aren’t safe. When teams go down, other clubs who have survived quite often pick through the better players from that team. Looking at the Burnley squad, the only players I wouldn’t mind us possibly going for are Jensen, the keeper, Fletcher, up front, and possibly Wade Elliott and Chris Eagles. Elliott really impressed me, and actually reminded me a bit of Alan Mahon, in his style of play. Looked very neat on the ball.
Not too sure about Hull, but if the right deal was in place (I.E. Pay per play), I’d have Bullard back like a shot. (His energy and enthusiasm alone would be worth it) And as for Portsmouth, I think they definitely have one or two players worth considering.
Any player we have to bring in from here on, MUST be one that. contributes something to the squad, and is a potential starter. We have actually had players at this club who are nowhere near being a potential starter, and that is so, so wrong. A club of our size cannot afford to have players like that picking up wages. The problem is having to be addressed by Roberto, yet none of it was his doing.That folks, is where we have to shop at. The firesales, the bargain basement. And also picking up some quality youths. I’d expect Tomasz Kupisz to step up more next year, too. He seems to have overtaken Cywka, as well.
wade Elliot is 32 aint he !!What does that matter? It does a squad the world of good to have one or two older players in it. Besides, he wouldn’t play every game anyway. He’d be an handy player to have.
He looked a very good player against us, so I’d take a punt on him.
“The problem is having to be addressed by Roberto, yet none of it was his doing.”
I’d disagree with that statement & add that far from completely addressing the problem, he is adding to it
As well as Scotland, Gomez, Amaya, Sinclair & Stojkovic who aren’t good enough & never will be he’s brought in McCarthy (who took 5 months to be ready to start according to Bobby), Gohouri (not match fit), Moses (not considered ready for a start by Bobby) & Moreno (took him until the last couple of weeks to be “ready” to start regularly)Probably only Diame & Thomas were up to hitting the ground running & one whilst a good battler is very limited (Thomas) & the other has been inconsistant
Yes he had a squad with kapo, De Ridder, King, Cho & Koumas who fall into your category that Bobby inherited but he’s more than added his own IMO
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