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Only one I agree with, is Stoijkovic, who I admit, is dodgier than a Dale Winton handshake.
I’m not going to slaughter the others. Amaya, ok, he has played twice and looked dodgy. But perhaps he will come good. Judging him on two cup games is hardly fair, but it is typical of Wiganer’s.
Gomez, let’s be honest, he isn’t a Wiganer’s idea of a footballer. “Bluddy fancy-dan” I’ve heard people say. I wish these people would just go and f*ck off, to be honest.
And as for Scotland, when he came on against Burnley, he was superb. He hit a shot there, it went just wide. If it had gone in, it would have been a belter. I’m LONGING for him to score, just so it will actually pi** all the moaning gets off.We could sign Ronaldinho, and no doubt someone would wisecrack that his teeth “will give us more bite”. Or if we signed Messi, someone would call him a “greedy bas*ard”. Can’t win with Wiganers.
I think a load of our so-called fans, actually THRIVE on the moaning. Going back to 1987, I recall people shouting “Campbell’s Meatballs” at Bobby Campbell. Wiganers are a strange bunch. (Don’t take that personally, anyone. Just look at the grief that some give to our players?)
One old coont sat near me, keeps shouting “Gerritt Forward!!” when we are trying to play our passing game. There are many like him, who won’t, or who cannot mentally, subscribe to Roberto’s idea’s and ideals.
I don’t want us to go down, but if we do, I juust hope that the majority of moaning, negative, gits, stay away next season. I might start enjoying going again. This season, I’ve heard our so called fans call our players “Jiggaboo’s” (Racially intended) and even heard someone call Gomez a “Greasy Spic” and that he should “fu*k off back to Spain”. That is disgraceful. Most of this probably comes from people who will disappear like Lord Lucan, if we did go down.
(That was certainly NOT aimed at you, Tyldsley. It was a general observation. Honestly.)
“Amaya … ok, he has played twice and looked dodgy. But perhaps he will come good”
That just reinforces my point though. At this moment in time he isn’t good enough so we’re wasting a invaluable transfer fee & salary funds when they could have gone on someone who is up to the job now & not in 2 seasons time. Its not an impossible task coz previous managers have managed to find the likes of Bramble, De Zeeuw, Scharner, Boyce who didn’t need a season/seasons to “settle in”. If our managers sign someone from a spanish second division side they need to be confident that they are good enough to start now whilst accepting that there is still some development for them to make & hence future profit on transfer fees
“Judging him on two cup games is hardly fair” – fair point but he now seems to be 6th in the pecking order for a centre half’s spot so its fair to say our manager doesn’t think he’s up to the job at present either
The others you mention are down to personal opinion & whilst I know what you mean about not being a Wigan player – the majority of the crowd will always prefer a limited grafter liek Neil Roberts as opposed to someone with bags of skill but less commitment like Simon Haworth. But personally I don’t think Gomez is up to the job & its nowt to do with him being a fancy dan – he’s just not good enough. Espanyol didn’t want him & bearing in mind their usual league position they are a Spanish equivalent of Latics & it was always going to be debatable as to whether a reserve player from a similar top flight club was going to be good enough for our first team.
You reinforce your point about “Wigan type players” with what you say about Scotland coz he is a grafter but he isn’t a premier league standard player in a million years no matter how hard he tries. While he gives 100% he shouldn’t get slaughtered from the terraces but it doesn’t alter the fact that he isn’t good enough
Just to back up my point Bobby is now saying that he wanted to ease both the above players into top flight life (contrary to what he said when they were signed) so he himself is admitting to signing players who “aren’t ready”
A club like Wigan Athletic IMO can’t afford to sign players who need easing in. We operate with too small a squad, with too small a budget & in too cut throat a division to allow that to work. We need players good enough to start now not those “we hope will come good” – that doesn’t mean expecting us to sign “top” players but as I said elsewhere to chuck all your eggs in the “players with potential” basket is a dangerous tactic if you want to stay in this divisionOh & as long as I’ve been watching Latics there have always been people (me included at times) who will moan about players & managers whether we’re doing well or not & I’m sure the same goes for every club. Latics getting relegated won’t stop that!!
Well said Tyldesley, all what I was trying to say but better written.
Standish, when I say “Top players” I didnt mean the Gerrards and Rooneys as well you know. I meant top players for Wigan Athletic. Players like Heskey, Kirkland, Valencia, Camara, Palacios, Chimbonda, Cattermole, Nzogbia even Scharner at centre half.Not fit enough, simple as. Playing with one striker we need plenty of goals from midfield, he just can’t get into the box fast enough. One of the best midfielders in the country?? I don’t think so.He’s a better player than you’re a fan :roll:
I must warn you in advance, Callmeishmael, that I am about to blow you out of the water……
Well said Tyldesley, all what I was trying to say but better written.
Standish, when I say “Top players” I didnt mean the Gerrards and Rooneys as well you know. I meant top players for Wigan Athletic. Players like Heskey, Kirkland, Valencia, Camara, Palacios, Chimbonda, Cattermole, Nzogbia even Scharner at centre half.So you are saying that we signed Valencia, Palacios, and even Henri Camara because we knew we would definitely get them doing a good job for us? That’s a load of rubbish! And as for Chimbonda, nobody had even heard of the fella when we signed him. He came from Bastia, who are a small French club.
And let’s have it right about Valencia. Paul Jewell spotted him in the 2006 World Cup in Germany, and decided to get him on loan, and take a bit of a chance on him. And it took him a while to settle. As for Palacios, we only signed him because of the Steve Bruce connection from Birmingham City. He still arrived as a unknown entity. Henri Camara was actually something of a ‘panic buy’, when we signed him on the eve of our first season. We found ourselves short up front, due to Ellington leaving. Camara had shown the odd glimpse at Southampton, Wolves, and Celtic. But again, we took a chance on him. All things considered, he gave us about one decent season, in total.
Paul Scharner. We took a chance on him, and signed him from SK Brann, a Norwegian club. Who really knew when we signed him, or any of the aforementioned players, that they would become a “top player for Wigan Athletic”? Nobody. It was a gamble.
Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t, when you take chances on players. We signed Jason Koumas from the Championship, for 5 million I think, and I doubt anybody will say we’ve had our money’s worth. We haven’t. On the other hand, some people moaned when we spent 1.5 million on Kevin Kilbane, a relatively proven, and experienced player. Yet Kevin always gave 110% for us, and it was sad to see him leave.
You have basically admitted we have to take a chance on unknown quantity signings.
“You have basically admitted we have to take a chance on unknown quantity signings.”
Of course we do but I think that you & standish are missing the point that I’m trying to make. Nor have I said that the managers knew all the players I mentioned would definitely do a good job for us – no manager can say that. Even the likes of Ferguson when he spends £30mill on Rooney, Ferdinand, Berbatov etc..
Latics, more often than not, always have to take a big chance on signings BUT even bearing that in mind our managers need to be confident that they are signing players that they fell can step straight in to the starting line up. The players we’ve all mentioned are ones who, including Heskey & Kirkland for different reasons, our managers at the time were taking a chance on BUT they also felt confident enough to throw them into first team action straight away – You didn’t hear Jewell or Bruce say on signing Chimbonda, Heskey, Palacios, Scharner, Valencia etc.. “I want to ease them into things” or “I won’t be rushed into starting them” or “He’s not yet ready to start”. They were signed & they started coz, gamble or not, the managers felt they were ready &/or better than what we had.By Martinez’s own admission (if you believe his about turn on a couple of them) he has signed Gomez, Scotland, Amaya, McCarthy, Moreno, Gohouri & Moses knowing full well that they weren’t ready for premier league action (on signing) & would/will have to be eased in over varying lengths of time.
That’s 7 of his 10 signings & IMO is far too many. You might be able to carry 1 or 2 but 7?? Its his strategy & its a departure from our previous 3 managers philosophy & he’ll have to live or die by it. Personally I don’t think it’ll work – in the situation we were in with our chairman having instigated the dismantling of the previous side Bobby was in an admittedly tough position & I think he took the gamble that the players we had on his appointment would be good enough to carry us whilst these players settled in when in reality (apart from the back 4) they were either our previous managers flops (and he only needed to look at their appearance records to realise that) or players still settling in themselves (Rodallega & N’Zogbia). If that’s the case (and its the only thign I can think to justify his signings) & the likes of Figueroa, Scharner, N’Zogbia & Rodallega go in the summer I hope he changes this approachI hope that’s clarified the point I’ve been trying to make coz like Standish I feel like I’m going round in circles!!
His signings have been patchy, especially weighed against his sales.
But Moses and McCarthy look quality. Maybe if he gave Moses a game, and played McCarthy down the middle (he’s always looked very average wide and great down the middle).
To me, playing Thomas, Diame and Scharner in the middle is overkill, especially for someone who claims to play the passing game. If he really wants to play everything through the middle, as he seems to want to do by playing the wingers on the wrong wings, he needs better passers in there.
Tyldesley
I’m not missing your point, as I totally understand where you are coming from, and agree with a lot of the things you say. My posts are aimed at Ishmael, not you, as he is the one who keeps harping on about ‘top’ signing, then in the same breath mentions Chimbonda, Palacios, Scharner, etc, failing to recognise that they are exactly the same type of unknown quantity as Diame, Thomas, Gahouri etc. They only become ‘top’ signings when they have proven they can hack it in this league.
As I said in an earlier post, I am hoping that Martinez knows what he is doing by bringing players that are not yet ready, and that this season is a period of survival, assessment and consolidation – a risky tactic though that may be, with the real development starting in the summer. (I did say ‘I am hoping’ that this is the case)
I can understand McCarthy and Moses needing time to settle, but with Gomez and Scotland, I think there was a definite u-turn in Martinez’s comments, possible to try and reassure supporters- as I’m sure he’s fully aware of a certain amount of discontent with these two, but maybe also to save face.
We will definitely need some new and experienced players in the summer, as I can see three of four of the current team leaving, and I would put money on there being at least one new Spaniard and a new South American in the starting lineup at the beginning of next season, with Moses featuring more prominently.
“To me, playing Thomas, Diame and Scharner in the middle is overkill, especially for someone who claims to play the passing game. If he really wants to play everything through the middle, as he seems to want to do by playing the wingers on the wrong wings, he needs better passers in there.”
I think its obvious to everybody that its overkill. he did it against Burnly & the game sparked into life after Thomas went off
I can understand him doing it against City to be honest & to be fair it was working coz it completely stifled em but as you say its overkill against most sides.
I’m hoping that on Sunday he’ll go with Diame & McCarthy with Moses “in the hole” with N’Zogbia & Rodallega on the wings coz the problem IMO (and Chris Waddle – managerial genius that he is!!) pointed out that we struggle to get me into the box quickly enough when the front man has held up play coz (with the exception of the wingers) the midfielders are all too defensive in naturefair enough standish – seems we’re singing from the same hymn sheet. Hopefully VAT gets where I’m coming from too (even if he doesn’t agree)
Anyway, like you I’m hoping that experienced heads are brough in in the summer coz if you add another load of players (who need time to adapt) to replace the ones we can all foresee leaving then if we do stay up this season (& I think we will – just) next season will be even more of a struggle
Standish,
“They only become top signings when they prove they can hack it in this league.”
I think if you listen carefully you might hear the penny drop.Vat, Dave or whatever your name is… you couldn’t blow a f@rt out of the water.
Standish,
“They only become top signings when they prove they can hack it in this league.”
I think if you listen carefully you might hear the penny drop.Vat, Dave or whatever your name is… you couldn’t blow a f@rt out of the water.
Penny dropping? Are you a real tube, or just pretending to be one? I still haven’t agreed with anything you’ve posted.
Oh hang on, maybe I do now understand what you mean. By saying we need ‘top’ signings, and putting previously unknown/risk players like Chimbonda, Rodallega, Scharner, Camara etc into that category, what you mean is, we need to sign players who will turn out to be good players, thus making them ‘top’ signings?
In summary, let’s stop making shyte signings, and start making good signings.
That’s brilliant, and I applaud you. I think Jay should bring this up in the next meeting with Martinez. He could learn a thing or two from you.
Yes McCarthy and Moses DO look promising, but are far from the finished article and didn’t come cheap.Yes they did. Weird. As you say they didn’t come cheap but if you decided not to lie and clutch at straws for something to complain about…Yes they did!
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