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The rail system has exactly the same capacity as seating as one place on the ‘terrace’ is essentially a seat that is folded up. As far as I am aware, the system can be used for seating or standing, but one or the other (not fold the seat down at half time whilst you have your brew).
FA Cup Winners 2013, sounds good that
I remember the buzz of Latics moving to an all-seater stafium. Funny how the gloss tarnishes over time. It’s a bit like the journey to the Premier League. Sure everybody wanted to be there but once you are actually there is ‘much a do’ about nothing. You can’t compete for the league.
Nothing could have been safer than The Pop Side when the wonderful Wigan ‘Believe’ Council slapped a 1000 limit on it.
We worked it out that a thousand people could stand then hold their arms out and they wouldn’t touch another fan.I once suffered ankle ligament damage at Springy and ended up leaving in an ambulance after a surge and me being pushed down the steps. Funnily enough I’ve never left the DW injured after a game. Also I fear that if standing became prevalent again at stadia country wide it could see a return to the bad old days of violence and racial abuse. It is so much easier to identify someone in a specific seat and has seen the game become more civilised. I’m against it obviously.I did my ankle ligaments at Springfield Park too celebrating a Paul Rogers equaliser against Gillingham in 1999 but in the lower half of that terrace there was no crush barrier. If they’d had this rail seating then I wouldn’t have been able to move forward or backwards & so wouldn’t have got injured. I also floored everyone within about 10 feet of me too.
I assume that with a barrier at every row then the crowd surge that caused your accident wouldn’t have occurred eitherIncidentally as 2 old St John’s guys were carrying me down the steps (where the Popular Side met the Town End) in one of those rickety chairs with wheels on, Simon Haworth scored to put us 2-1 in front. My celebrations nearly caused a second accident
Personally, I would be all for it.
I can’t see what objection anyone would have to it – if you would prefer to sit down then use the seated areas. If you would prefer to stand use the standing areas. It’s a matter of choice & why should anyone who prefers to sit have the right to deny anyone else the chance to stand
You don’t have any of the safety issues that occurred with the old terracing with a crush barrier at every row
You’re no more likely to cause trouble standing than sitting & but (as jayt has explained), as it is literally a case of one person stood where one person would previously been sat, any trouble makers can just as easily be id’d & apprehended as if they were sat down because they won’t be in a mass of constantly moving people.If you’re asking on behalf of the club in your role as fan rep jayt, my personal opinion is for the club to apply for it & I would convert the whole South Stand into this rail seating/standing for home supporters. That way you’ve got 5,500 standing spaces & 14,000 seating spaces & everybody has the choice.
I see too many issues to make the North Stand the same as some away supporters will want to sit & to make the stand half seating/half standing just adds extra logistical problemsAgree with T to a point, but I don’t think that a whole stand of it would be a goer. In East where they are stood up now is probably the logical place to put it, but does that sit well with WW.
Could well be a pointless discussion, as if DS and JJ are not up for it, there is o chance it will happen anyway, not in the immediate future anyway.With the greatest respect to jay and the club who I presume have asked him to ask this I find it farcical that they don’t know the full facts about it. For instance it’s not 1 person per rail seat when the seats are locked upright it’s 1.5 per space.
I don’t want to sound like a moaner or someone that won’t consider standing at football but I hate the fact that this campaign for “safe standing” that is being rammed down football fans throats isn’t a public/fan led thing. It’s actually a form of propoganda/publicity funded by the company/people that own the license to the rail seat in the UK. That is why we aren’t being offered different ways of standing.
I will openly admit I’m against “safe standing” and I questioned the company and its safety officer a few years ago outside the stadium when they had the roadshow here. I would propose it should be called “safer” standing because it isn’t as safe as seating at a game and was taken away and spoken to away from where people could listen.
Here’s some of the facts about it:
The rail seat is designed for 1.5 people per space when the seat is upright and 1 per space when it is down which is required at uefa sanctioned games such as European fixtures and international games both of which there’s a chance we and many others would never see at the club again.
The rail seat locked in the upright position can be dropped down by the use of a key, it’s almost certain people will be able to get hold of them and drop the seats down to stand on.
When the rail seat is locked in the upright position it is not possible to pass between rows. This sounds a good thing until you consider the fact that in the event of a security alert or fire or worse in the stadium specifically in that stand the plan is people make their way down to pitch level. This would restrict this.
The rail seat stops any surge and crush injuries from the front or back but what it doesn’t stop are people moving side to side which could cause serious injury or worse in a situation where people need to leave a row quickly.
The areas need extra stewarding at an extra cost to clubs and policing as the numbers would have to be closely monitored and policed.
There’s loads more but this is fast turning into an essay.
Agree with T to a point, but I don’t think that a whole stand of it would be a goer. In East where they are stood up now is probably the logical place to put it, but does that sit well with WW.
Could well be a pointless discussion, as if DS and JJ are not up for it, there is o chance it will happen anyway, not in the immediate future anyway.I don’t think that it works if you put it at the end of the east stand. If you did, then the people sat in ES3 & possibly beyond would struggle to see anything down in that corner if the people to the right of them are stood up all the way through.
Putting any standing area in the south stand makes much more sense & move the family stand over into the EastFaz – I’d disagree with a hell of a lot that you say in your post.
Of course there is a company who offer rail seats & they have toured and put forward proposals to clubs & the FSF but the campaign for safe standing has been fan led for almost as long as the standing areas have been removed from higher level football – and was one of the reasons why the initial Taylor Report recommendation for it across all divisions in professional football was never imnplemeneted
Secondly. We’re not idiots. People know that there is no way to make standing at a football game completely safe. You will always have accidents. People also know that the rail seating will not prevent you from moving from side to side but to be fair, seating at football ground isn’t completely safe either – I’ve injured myself in seating whether that be from whacking my legs on the back of the seat in front coz there isn’t enough room (Swindon Town & I still have the scars to prove it & Scott Green was playing that day to give you a sense of how long ago that was) or whether that be going over the seat in front celebrating a goal coz the banking of the stand was too steep & the height of the back of the seats not high enough (Wembley May 2013)
Thirdly on the off chance that someone is able to get hold of the key to move the seat down & stand on it – a) They’ll be an individual who is quickly lobbed out & b) it’s unlikely that the entire stand will do it or even enough people to make it a safety issue will be able to do it . A c) as well is that currently people can & do stand on the seats in ground anyway so I fail to see what point you’re making
People can currently move side to side when the seats are up. How would it cause any more injury than at present or represent any more of a danger if people need top leave in an emergency
Finally, the current seats aren’t designed for the occupants to be able to get over them & get to pitch level in the event of an emergency. Stadiums are designed for people to use the rows & aisles to evacuate whether that be through the stand (if you are at the top half of a stand in the DW) or at pitch level via the gangway at the front. The safety calculations make no account for people vaulting over the seats and various tests are done to ensure that using the rows, aisles & evac routes that the stadium can be completely evacuated within a specific time.
I’m sorry but at the moment, not a single one of the points you raised above stands up to any sort of scrutiny
With the greatest respect to jay and the club who I presume have asked him to ask this I find it farcical that they don’t know the full facts about it. For instance it’s not 1 person per rail seat when the seats are locked upright it’s 1.5 per space.
Wasn’t aware of that, I thought it was the same capacity as seating, 1 per “seat”.
I voted (very narrowly) against. If that’s correct info, I’m now strongly against. Been to games years ago where you couldn’t put your hand in your pocket without elbowing the person next to you so I’m out….
Seems a lot of hurdles to negotiate to implement this and I imagine the pc brigade will go into meltdown if standing at games returns.
Faz – I’d disagree withll of a lot that you say in your post.Of course there is a company who offer rail seats & they have toured and put forward proposals to clubs & the FSF but the campaign for safe standing has been fan led for almost as long as the standing areas have been removed from higher level football – and was one of the reasons why the initial Taylor Report recommendation for it across all divisions in professional football was never imnplemeneted
Secondly. We’re not idiots. People know that there is no way to make standing at a football game completely safe. You will always have accidents. People also know that the rail seating will not prevent you from moving from side to side but to be fair, seating at football ground isn’t completely safe either – I’ve injured myself in seating whether that be from whacking my legs on the back of the seat in front coz there isn’t enough room (Swindon Town & I still have the scars to prove it & Scott Green was playing that day to give you a sense of how long ago that was) or whether that be going over the seat in front celebrating a goal coz the banking of the stand was too steep & the height of the back of the seats not high enough (Wembley May 2013)
Thirdly on the off chance that someone is able to get hold of the key to move the seat down & stand on it – a) They’ll be an individual who is quickly lobbed out & b) it’s unlikely that the entire stand will do it or even enough people to make it a safety issue will be able to do it . A c) as well is that currently people can & do stand on the seats in ground anyway so I fail to see what point you’re making
People can currently move side to side when the seats are up. How would it cause any more injury than at present or represent any more of a danger if people need top leave in an emergency
Finally, the current seats aren’t designed for the occupants to be able to get over them & get to pitch level in the event of an emergency. Stadiums are designed for people to use the rows & aisles to evacuate whether that be through the stand (if you are at the top half of a stand in the DW) or at pitch level via the gangway at the front. The safety calculations make no account for people vaulting over the seats and various tests are done to ensure that using the rows, aisles & evac routes that the stadium can be completely evacuated within a specific time.
I’m sorry but at the moment, not a single one of the points you raised above stands up to any sort of scrutiny
Hi mate,
Like I said the “safe standing” campaign is led by the rail seat licensees. I dont doubt that fans have called for it ever since the ban but this specific campaign is funded and promoted by the company, thats why theres no open debate about other options for standing.
Again im not saying people are idiots but shoukdnt the campaign be safer standing rather than safe. Like you said standing isnt completely safe.
The point im making about the key and bringing down the seat is that again it makes it more unsafe. The key will be a generic allan key or similar and trust me they will be easy to get hold of or people will find other ways to drop the seat.
In an emergency at any sports club people can be asked to make their way to pitch level anything that restricts the direction people can move in an emergency can cause injurys. With the current seats people can clamber over them if need be in a rush. For instance what would happen if a rail seat aisle is blocked on one or both exits?
I totally agree its not planned that way but in an evacuation people will jump seats and in doing so reduce the weight of traffic to aisles.
Personally I think its daft us going back in time
You see.
You label anyone who opposes this as “the PC brigade”No gl quite the opposite, the opposition will come from outside the football fraternity. I see the clamour to bring it back and having been a football fan all my life most of my time spent at games has been stood up. I simply question whether we would get a safety license at the DW for rail seating or safe standing because of the stadium design. PC brigade will use past tragedies at football events to argue against standing returning because in modern society it is the way most debates go. Everything today has to turn nasty it seems to make it an interesting debate. I’ve not seen how rail seating is used tbh so I’m naive to its real worth I do know however that when I’m standing at the DW I wouldn’t like to go arse over tit down the terrace its quite steep.
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