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The tactics from Rotherham of just hitting anything and everything into our box lends itself to that type of defending though. We were never able to get ourselves on the front foot.
If we survive this year then I think we will see a different mentality next year from the owners and from Cook.
The tactics from Rotherham of just hitting anything and everything into our box lends itself to that type of defending thoughI disagree, I’m not say Martinez it everytime we get hold of it in our box a simple heads up, pass left-right-middle in alot of cases would have been the better option.
Peter Kay “have it” isn’t the way forward for me. It reminded me of kids Sunday football when you hear the parents screaming,: “GEEEEET RID !!!!!”
In answer to the original question: because under Martinez we were in the Premier League. Hoofing it forward would just give the ball to the opposition who would then come back at us wave after wave. Our problem was that we didn’t have players who were fully able to play the ball out with neat passing. Hence we struggled.
Now we certainly don’t have players who can play neat passing movements, and we have seen some disastrous moments already where we are caught in possession or misplace passes at the back. Hoofing on occasion at this level doesn’t mean the opposition will gain control necessarily, and is often the best option to clear the lines.
The very simple answer then is that we are playing at a different level, with a different class of player (even taking account my criticism of the PL players’ ability), and so a different style is needed.
Yes we will survive but after nearly blowing 2pts against Qpr and what I can only describe as one of the worst offence to the eyes excuse for football on Saturday we really are in a bad place under Cooks management. Oh of course the sunny side posters console themselves by quoting the turgid” finishing 4th from bottom was our pre season target” but what kind of recruitment program are we going to have to initiate to be better equipped for next season? Is Cook the right man to be involved in recruiting ? When will Powell inform the club/supporters of his decision ? I know very few footballers show much loyalty but he’s earned some good dosh for little return and very sympathetic man management ,so the sooner the better.
I’ve found that the ones that were first to complain about overplaying and tippy tappy under Martinez were also the first to complain about the long ball/hoof ball tactics under Coyle/McKay and the defensive football under Joyce.
And they are also the first to complain under the current manager.
In fact I’ve found that the same people are the first to complain no matter what.
I’ve found that the ones that were first to complain about overplaying and tippy tappy under Martinez were also the first to complain about the long ball/hoof ball tactics under Coyle/McKay and the defensive football under Joyce.And they are also the first to complain under the current manager.
In fact I’ve found that the same people are the first to complain no matter what.
Well said that man
The bigger picture always helps understand where we are and why we are there but sadly most of our fans don’t look at that and live off knee jerk reactions and the belief that we should be challenging for the Champions League because we once won the FA Cup. Garswood is pretty much spot on with his analysis though.
Martinez wanted to play a similar style to Guardiola. They were both educated at the Barcelona academy and it is the style they 100% believe in. Unfortunately he had 1% of the transfer budget that Pep has and was trying to do it with players that weren’t quite up to it. He has taken Belgium to a World Cup semi final playing said style and it is what kept us up in 2012.
Cook tries to play attacking football and did so last season to great effect but this season he lost all of his attacking players at once and doesn’t have the budget to ensure he has 4 or 5 replacements capable of playing at this level. Last season we probably would have still won most games minus Jacobs, Massey, Grigg and Powell.
We are struggling at Championship level but financially we probably shouldn’t even be here highlighted by selling a prized asset to a side a league below who managed to up his wages on top of spending money we could only dream of spending. Then there are vultures from above that take our best players whenever they feel like it because money talks and as the books showed…..we have none.
If we survive this season it will be a massive achievement regardless of the style of football we play to do it. We have had better squads than this fail at this level. Should we stay up we can then try to build on that and move up the table. The losses will be that bit smaller and that will perhaps allow for a bigger transfer kitty. Baby steps are what we need as opposed to going all out for promotion and the bubble well and truly bursting and leaving us in a hole that will take a while to climb out of (see the Rosler/Mackay/Caldwell season) especially without any PL money to prop us up.
In the past members of CL including one in particular who looked down with distain at anyone that did not share his pro Martinez view of how we should play the game, in fact it was probably him who coined the phrase “the dark side” for anyone daring to say bottom four bob was anything less than perfect.His views were echoed by many on this board including one or two who still post on it, back then and even now when there is any talk about Ste’ve Bruce, his time with us and any smalltalk of a possible return it was met with the same old cliches of long ball crap and how their neck used to ache watching the stuff on offer, with that background I will get to my point.
Where are all these posters now, we are seeing stuff at the moment from Cooks stable that makes him look like an apprentice of John Beck or Dave Bassett, the long ball crap is a disgrace and shocking to watch, it is driving fans away, he has frozen our best striker out of the club only to replace him with one who suits his hoof ball game, Saturday at Rotherham in particular must have seen an unpresidented demand on neck braces from Wigan Infirmary from fans, where are all the posts from the Martinez tippy tappy school of thought, and more so why are they not condemning this rubbish as should be.
I was and still am one of Martinez’s biggest fans.
I rarely come on here these days because, to be honest with you, I can’t be bothered arguing the same toss over and over again about why we don’t play 2 up top, proper wingers, why are we not buying X and Y, etc.
Plus, these days I’m coaching my youngest son’s rugby team (‘proper’ rugby I hasten to add) so that plus the other sports he and his brother are playing at the moment make time a scarce commodity and therefore I’ve not been to a single away game this season.
Not a bad thing though, as they’ve been poor of late.
But, I still don’t see us as a longball team. Yes, we’ve been very direct in some games, and it’s a lot more direct than when Martinez was in charge, but it’s hardly a case of bypassing midfield – other than the game on Saturday, which was a case of needs must.
It certainly wasn’t long ball last season.
Plus, didn’t Cook say all our best performances were when Grigg was in the team, but without Powell, Jacobs and Massey, Grigg wouldn’t get the service he needed, which is why he didn’t play?
That’s hardly freezing him out.
The Sunderland lot are already saying he looks like a player who needs service as he’s hardly going to bully defenders or create his own chances.
And I know Cook definitely didn’t want to sell him, but the decision was taken out of his hands.
In answer to the original question: because under Martinez we were in the Premier League. Hoofing it forward would just give the ball to the opposition who would then come back at us wave after wave. Our problem was that we didn’t have players who were fully able to play the ball out with neat passing. Hence we struggled.Now we certainly don’t have players who can play neat passing movements, and we have seen some disastrous moments already where we are caught in possession or misplace passes at the back. Hoofing on occasion at this level doesn’t mean the opposition will gain control necessarily, and is often the best option to clear the lines.
The very simple answer then is that we are playing at a different level, with a different class of player (even taking account my criticism of the PL players’ ability), and so a different style is needed.
George my original post is nothing to do with how we played football under martinez, the quality of players or what division we were in it was about those, mainly vociferous, fans of his who looked down their noses at the stuff Steve Bruce played and those that dared to say they enjoyed it and preferred it to Martinez’s tippy tappy philosophy.
Recently talk turned to the possibility of Cook being sacked and who should replace him and when Bruce was suggested the hoof ball accusations came back among other issues, what I intended in my first post and was attempting to say is how are the ones who were the most ‘vociferous’ critics on the Bruce style dealing with this utter hoof ball garbage Cook is serving up now, they are quite conspicuous by their absence. I also cannot agree that this is only an away problem our play at home is also the same, maybe not as much, but still obvious, I think many are disregarding it with the relief of a few wins.
I am an avid reader of away fans forums before and after games to see if I can get a balanced opinion of games, as we all tend to see only what we want in games and are bias to our own, which is natural, but I can assure you one thing opposing fans have consensus and are in agreement over our hoof ball play.
I was and still am one of Martinez’s biggest fans.I rarely come on here these days because, to be honest with you, I can’t be bothered arguing the same toss over and over again about why we don’t play 2 up top, proper wingers, why are we not buying X and Y, etc.
Plus, these days I’m coaching my youngest son’s rugby team (‘proper’ rugby I hasten to add) so that plus the other sports he and his brother are playing at the moment make time a scarce commodity and therefore I’ve not been to a single away game this season.
Not a bad thing though, as they’ve been poor of late.
But, I still don’t see us as a longball team. Yes, we’ve been very direct in some games, and it’s a lot more direct than when Martinez was in charge, but it’s hardly a case of bypassing midfield – other than the game on Saturday, which was a case of needs must.
It certainly wasn’t long ball last season.
Plus, didn’t Cook say all our best performances were when Grigg was in the team, but without Powell, Jacobs and Massey, Grigg wouldn’t get the service he needed, which is why he didn’t play?
That’s hardly freezing him out.
The Sunderland lot are already saying he looks like a player who needs service as he’s hardly going to bully defenders or create his own chances.
And I know Cook definitely didn’t want to sell him, but the decision was taken out of his hands.
I refer you to my answer to Garswood, it is nothing about Martinez it is more about what I see as the purist football snobbery that the stuff we played under Bruce could be dismissed, I often read many on here describe it like watching ‘tennis’.
On a few occasions under Martinez some of the stuff we played was stunning and a joy to watch, but that was when we moved it quickly and ran at teams, not the constant side ways and backwards stuff until we were forced into errors like we usually saw, as I tried to say before this is not an attack on Martinez in anyway, I was one of the original ‘darksiders’, but he did finally win me over, but it is more a defence of Bruce and how his detractors seem not to have anything to say about the stuff we are playing under Cook
I’ve found that the ones that were first to complain about overplaying and tippy tappy under Martinez were also the first to complain about the long ball/hoof ball tactics under Coyle/McKay and the defensive football under Joyce.And they are also the first to complain under the current manager.
In fact I’ve found that the same people are the first to complain no matter what.
All those managers had one thing in common. They all play/played with one striker.
And some are the same ones quiet content to keep polishing a turd.You support (allegedly) Wigan athletic. What is it you want exactly from a club with a small fanbase & limited resources that is punching above its weight even in the championship?
I could spend half an hour typing out an essay, but I won’t.
All things taken into consideration, we’re shite. Lets just have it at that.
Not as shite as Bolton, who lack the forwards we have, thats their downfall, and probably Ipswich’s as well, going off what I saw on Sunday. (They did cause Norwich problems though, played some neat football and threatened to wreck my bet, until Norwich scored two late on)
We are shite, but potentially we can be better than shite. Midfield seems to be the thing we need to cement now. Forwards wise, its Clarke with Windass playing off him, whilst defence will be pretty tight with Fox fit.
Its seeing out the season now and looking towards a summer of reassessing.
Not as shite as Bolton, who lack the forwards we have, thats their downfall, and probably Ipswich’s as well, going off what I saw on Sunday. (They did cause Norwich problems though, played some neat football and threatened to wreck my bet, until Norwich scored two late on)We are shite, but potentially we can be better than shite.Its seeing out the season now and looking towards a summer of reassessing.
If we are better than Bolton & Ipswich,that means we need to be better than just 1 more team.
At this moment we are better than shite as there are 5 teams shiter than us & we have a 7 point gap over the team 3rd from bottom.
Once again. The aim this season was to stay up, then as you say, reassess during the summer & build on it so we can hopefully have a higher position next season.
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