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After debating some of Bruce’s signings versus Martinez signings and Filmoss’s bizarre statement that he expects more for his £295 season ticket it got me thinking who out of our few premier league managers have delivered the best value for money in terms of players signed.
I thought about what way the statistics could be chopped and analysed e.g. transfer total versus points in a season but I couldnt be arsed…
Here is what I came up with anyway which I find quite interesting.
Data mostly from soccerbase.com apart from some gaps I had to fill in from either google or memory.
Average Net Profits Per Season
Roberto Martinez = £ 0.58 Million
Steve Bruce = £ -9.2 Million
Chris Hutchings = £ 7.3 Million
Paul Jewell = £ -4.85 MillionNet Wigan Career Profit
Roberto Martinez = £1.74 Million
Steve Bruce = £-13.80 Million
Chris Hutchings = £3.65 Million
Paul Jewell = £-9.7 MillionRoberto Martinez.
Players IN
Total Spent = £ 31.76 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 3
Average spent per season = £10.58 Million
Mauro Boselli £6,000,000
Ali Al Habsi £4,000,000 04 Jul, 2011
David Jones Free 03 Aug, 2011
Nouha Dicko Free 12 Aug, 2011
Albert Crusat Signed 30 Aug, 2011 £2,000,000
Shaun Maloney £1,000,000 31 Aug, 2011
Jean Beausejour Signed 25 Jan, 2012 £3,000,000
James McArthur £500,000 21 Jul, 2010
Antolin Alcaraz Signed 22 Jul, 2010
Franco Di Santo £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2010
Piscu Free 30 Dec, 2010
Connor Sammon £600,000 31 Jan, 2011
Jordi Gomez £1,700,000 01 Jul, 2009
Hendry Thomas Olim Free 02 Jul, 2009
Jason Scotland £2,000,000 20 Jul, 2009
James McCarthy n £1,100,000 21 Jul, 2009
Antonio Amaya Signed 14 Aug, 2009
Mohamed Diame £3,360,000 21 Aug, 2009
Vladimir Stojkovic Free 07 Jan, 2010
Gary Caldwell Signed 13 Jan, 2010
Victor Moses £2,500,000 01 Feb, 2010
Ronnie Stam £2,000,000 01 Jul, 2010Players OUT
Total Gained = £33.50 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 3
Average Gain per season = £ 11.16 Million
Steven Caldwell Birmingham Free 07 Jul, 2011
Daniel De Ridder Grasshoppers Free 09 Jul, 2011
Charles N’Zogbia Aston Villa £9,500,000 30 Jul, 2011
Titus Bramble Sunderland £1,000,000 23 Jul, 2010
Antonio Amaya R. Vallecano Free 01 Aug, 2010
Vladimir Stojkovic Partizan Free 01 Aug, 2010
Jason Scotland Ipswich £1,000,000 23 Aug, 2010
Paul Scharner West Brom Free 31 Aug, 2010
Jonathon Routledge Hamilton Free 31 Jan, 2011
Luis Antonio Valencia Man Utd £16,000,000 30 Jun, 2009
Lewis Montrose Wycombe Free 01 Jul, 2009
Lee Cattermole Sunderland £6,000,000 12 Aug, 2009
Michael Brown Portsmouth Signed 28 Aug, 2009
Tomasz Kupisz Jagiellonia 02 Jun, 2010
Tomasz Cywka Derby Free 30 Jun, 2010Steve Bruce
Players IN
Total Spent = £31.00 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 1.5
Average spent per season = £20.66 Million
Daniel De Ridder Birmingham Free 01 Jul, 2008
Olivier Kapo Birmingham £3,500,000 16 Jul, 2008
Lee Cattermole Middlesbro £3,500,000 29 Jul, 2008
Hugo Rodallega Necaxa £4,500,000 20 Dec, 2008
Maynor Figueroa Wigan Signed 23 Dec, 2008
Ben Watson C Palace £2,000,000 26 Jan, 2009
Charles N’Zogbia Newcastle £6,000,000 02 Feb, 2009
Wilson Palacios Olimpo £1,000,000 11 Jan, 2008
Erik Edman Rennes £500,000 18 Jan, 2008
Luis Antonio Valencia Villarreal £5,000,000 18 Jan, 2008
Marlon King Watford £5,000,000 29 Jan, 2008Players OUT
Total Gained = £17.20 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 1.5
Average Gain per season = £ 11.46 Million
Andreas Granqvist FC Groningen Signed 17 Jul, 2008
David Cotterill Sheff Utd Signed 31 Jul, 2008
Carlo Nash Everton Signed 01 Sep, 2008
Maynor Figueroa Wigan Signed 23 Dec, 2008
Luke Ashworth Leyton Orient Transfer 14 Jan, 2009
Wilson Palacios Tottenham £12,000,000 21 Jan, 2009
Emile Heskey Aston Villa £3,500,000 23 Jan, 2009
Ryan Taylor Newcastle Signed 02 Feb, 2009
Fitz Hall QPR £700,000 04 Jan, 2008
Denny Landzaat Feyenoord £1,000,000 28 Jan, 2008
Peter Moore Northwich Free 01 Jun, 2008
Julius Aghahowa Kayserispor Signed 23 Jun, 2008Chris Hutchings
Players IN
Total Spent = £5.60 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 1.5
Average spent per season = £11.2 Million
Jason Koumas West Brom £5,300,000 10 Jul, 2007
Michael Brown Fulham Signed 31 Jul, 2007
Rachid Bouaouzan Sp. Rotterdam £300,000 01 Aug, 2007
Salomon Olembe Marseille Free 04 Sep, 2007Players OUT
Total Gained = £9.25 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 0.5
Average Gain per season = £ 18.50 Million
Lee McCulloch Rangers £2,250,000 11 Jul, 2007
Leighton Baines Everton £6,000,000 07 Aug, 2007
David Unsworth Burnley Free 13 Aug, 2007
Caleb Folan Hull £1,000,000 31 Aug, 2007Paul Jewell
Players IN
Total Spent = £27.50 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 2
Average spent per season = £13.75 million
Emile Heskey Birmingham £5,500,000 07 Jul, 2006
Denny Landzaat AZ Alkmaar £2,500,000 18 Jul, 2006
Emmerson Boyce C Palace £1,000,000 01 Aug, 2006
Kevin Kilbane Everton £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2006
David Cotterill Bristol C £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2006
Andy Webster Hearts Signed 31 Aug, 2006
Chris Kirkland Liverpool Signed 27 Oct, 2006
David Unsworth Sheff Utd Free 05 Jan, 2007
Caleb Folan Chesterfield £500,000 26 Jan, 2007
Julius Aghahowa Shakhtar £2,100,000 31 Jan, 2007
Titus Bramble Newcastle Free 04 Jun, 2007
Antoine Sibierski Newcastle Free 04 Jun, 2007
Mario Melchiot Rennes Free 15 Jun, 2007
Andreas Granqvist Helsingborgs Signed 19 Jun, 2007
Mike Pollitt Rotherham £200,000 30 Jun, 2005
Pascal Chimbonda Bastia £500,000 08 Jul, 2005
Ryan Taylor Tranmere £750,000 13 Jul, 2005
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 27 Jul, 2005
Damien Francis Norwich Signed 05 Aug, 2005
Henri Camara Wolves £3,000,000 06 Aug, 2005
Arjan De Zeeuw Portsmouth Signed 11 Aug, 2005
David Connolly Leicester £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2005
Josip Skoko Genclerbirligi Signed 31 Aug, 2005
Paul Scharner Brann £2,500,000 06 Jan, 2006
David Thompson Blackburn Free 19 Jan, 2006
Fitz Hall C Palace £3,000,000 26 Jun, 2006Players OUT
Total Spent = £17.80 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 2
Average Gained per season = £8.9 million
Jason Roberts Blackburn £3,000,000 03 Jul, 2006
Kevin Lee Southport Free 18 Jul, 2006
David Thompson Portsmouth Free 28 Jul, 2006
Michael Hazeldine Alloa Signed 01 Aug, 2006
Pascal Chimbonda Tottenham £4,500,000 31 Aug, 2006
Graham Kavanagh Sunderland £500,000 31 Aug, 2006
David Connolly Sunderland £1,400,000 31 Aug, 2006
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn Free 08 Sep, 2006
David Wright Ipswich Signed 11 Jan, 2007
Gary Teale Derby £600,000 11 Jan, 2007
Matt Jackson Watford Free 24 May, 2007
Arjan De Zeeuw Coventry Free 30 Jun, 2007
Andreas Johansson Aalborg Free 01 Jul, 2007
Nicky Eaden Nottm Forest Free 01 Jul, 2005
Ian Breckin Nottm Forest £350,000 06 Jul, 2005
Gareth Whalley Swindon Signed 13 Jul, 2005
David Graham Sheff Wed £250,000 12 Aug, 2005
Nathan Ellington West Brom £3,000,000 14 Aug, 2005
Jimmy Bullard Fulham £2,500,000 08 May, 2006
Alan Mahon Burnley £200,000 08 Jun, 2006
Luke Joyce Carlisle Free 01 Jul, 2006
Phil Edwards Accrington Free 01 Jul, 2006
Damien Francis Watford £1,500,000 01 Jul, 2006Interesting stuff, and goes some way to exploding another myth. Did we have a turnstile on the trainng ground door when Jewell was here?
The obvious missing elements are:-
1) money recouped in sales
2) salary costs2) is obviously difficult to ascertain but you should be able to do 1), Salford. Come on, chop chop!
Interesting stuff, and goes some way to exploding another myth. Did we have a turnstile on the trainng ground door when Jewell was here?The obvious missing elements are:-
1) money recouped in sales
2) salary costs2) is obviously difficult to ascertain but you should be able to do 1), Salford. Come on, chop chop!
The first reply to that in my head was get stuffed Griff…
But then I realised its either that or get some propper work done this afternoon :)
If anyone can differ from the figures or think of anything else give me a shout and will edit again.
Is it just me going blind Salford, or have you missed Boselli off the list?Your not wrong mate. Me and Soccerbase appear oblivious to that one!
Got the £6 million defecit in but begs the question now what are we receiving in loan fees for him…
Anyone going to the fan forum monday who could ask that question ? Not sure if you will get an answer though.
Impressed
But how are you going to account for the famous line ‘fee undisclosed’ or payments received when sending someone out on loan
After debating some of Bruce’s signings versus Martinez signings and Filmoss’s bizarre statement that he expects more for his £295 season ticket it got me thinking who out of our few premier league managers have delivered the best value for money in terms of players signed.I thought about what way the statistics could be chopped and analysed e.g. transfer total versus points in a season but I couldnt be arsed…
Here is what I came up with anyway which I find quite interesting.
Data mostly from soccerbase.com apart from some gaps I had to fill in from either google or memory.
Average Net Profits Per Season
Roberto Martinez = £ 0.58 Million
Steve Bruce = £ -9.2 Million
Chris Hutchings = £ 7.3 Million
Paul Jewell = £ -4.85 MillionNet Wigan Career Profit
Roberto Martinez = £1.74 Million
Steve Bruce = £-13.80 Million
Chris Hutchings = £3.65 Million
Paul Jewell = £-9.7 MillionRoberto Martinez.
Players IN
Total Spent = £ 31.76 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 3
Average spent per season = £10.58 Million
Mauro Boselli £6,000,000
Ali Al Habsi £4,000,000 04 Jul, 2011
David Jones Free 03 Aug, 2011
Nouha Dicko Free 12 Aug, 2011
Albert Crusat Signed 30 Aug, 2011 £2,000,000
Shaun Maloney £1,000,000 31 Aug, 2011
Jean Beausejour Signed 25 Jan, 2012 £3,000,000
James McArthur £500,000 21 Jul, 2010
Antolin Alcaraz Signed 22 Jul, 2010
Franco Di Santo £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2010
Piscu Free 30 Dec, 2010
Connor Sammon £600,000 31 Jan, 2011
Jordi Gomez £1,700,000 01 Jul, 2009
Hendry Thomas Olim Free 02 Jul, 2009
Jason Scotland £2,000,000 20 Jul, 2009
James McCarthy n £1,100,000 21 Jul, 2009
Antonio Amaya Signed 14 Aug, 2009
Mohamed Diame £3,360,000 21 Aug, 2009
Vladimir Stojkovic Free 07 Jan, 2010
Gary Caldwell Signed 13 Jan, 2010
Victor Moses £2,500,000 01 Feb, 2010
Ronnie Stam £2,000,000 01 Jul, 2010Players OUT
Total Gained = £33.50 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 3
Average Gain per season = £ 11.16 Million
Steven Caldwell Birmingham Free 07 Jul, 2011
Daniel De Ridder Grasshoppers Free 09 Jul, 2011
Charles N’Zogbia Aston Villa £9,500,000 30 Jul, 2011
Titus Bramble Sunderland £1,000,000 23 Jul, 2010
Antonio Amaya R. Vallecano Free 01 Aug, 2010
Vladimir Stojkovic Partizan Free 01 Aug, 2010
Jason Scotland Ipswich £1,000,000 23 Aug, 2010
Paul Scharner West Brom Free 31 Aug, 2010
Jonathon Routledge Hamilton Free 31 Jan, 2011
Luis Antonio Valencia Man Utd £16,000,000 30 Jun, 2009
Lewis Montrose Wycombe Free 01 Jul, 2009
Lee Cattermole Sunderland £6,000,000 12 Aug, 2009
Michael Brown Portsmouth Signed 28 Aug, 2009
Tomasz Kupisz Jagiellonia 02 Jun, 2010
Tomasz Cywka Derby Free 30 Jun, 2010Steve Bruce
Players IN
Total Spent = £31.00 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 1.5
Average spent per season = £20.66 Million
Daniel De Ridder Birmingham Free 01 Jul, 2008
Olivier Kapo Birmingham £3,500,000 16 Jul, 2008
Lee Cattermole Middlesbro £3,500,000 29 Jul, 2008
Hugo Rodallega Necaxa £4,500,000 20 Dec, 2008
Maynor Figueroa Wigan Signed 23 Dec, 2008
Ben Watson C Palace £2,000,000 26 Jan, 2009
Charles N’Zogbia Newcastle £6,000,000 02 Feb, 2009
Wilson Palacios Olimpo £1,000,000 11 Jan, 2008
Erik Edman Rennes £500,000 18 Jan, 2008
Luis Antonio Valencia Villarreal £5,000,000 18 Jan, 2008
Marlon King Watford £5,000,000 29 Jan, 2008Players OUT
Total Gained = £17.20 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 1.5
Average Gain per season = £ 11.46 Million
Andreas Granqvist FC Groningen Signed 17 Jul, 2008
David Cotterill Sheff Utd Signed 31 Jul, 2008
Carlo Nash Everton Signed 01 Sep, 2008
Maynor Figueroa Wigan Signed 23 Dec, 2008
Luke Ashworth Leyton Orient Transfer 14 Jan, 2009
Wilson Palacios Tottenham £12,000,000 21 Jan, 2009
Emile Heskey Aston Villa £3,500,000 23 Jan, 2009
Ryan Taylor Newcastle Signed 02 Feb, 2009
Fitz Hall QPR £700,000 04 Jan, 2008
Denny Landzaat Feyenoord £1,000,000 28 Jan, 2008
Peter Moore Northwich Free 01 Jun, 2008
Julius Aghahowa Kayserispor Signed 23 Jun, 2008Chris Hutchings
Players IN
Total Spent = £5.60 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 1.5
Average spent per season = £11.2 Million
Jason Koumas West Brom £5,300,000 10 Jul, 2007
Michael Brown Fulham Signed 31 Jul, 2007
Rachid Bouaouzan Sp. Rotterdam £300,000 01 Aug, 2007
Salomon Olembe Marseille Free 04 Sep, 2007Players OUT
Total Gained = £9.25 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 0.5
Average Gain per season = £ 18.50 Million
Lee McCulloch Rangers £2,250,000 11 Jul, 2007
Leighton Baines Everton £6,000,000 07 Aug, 2007
David Unsworth Burnley Free 13 Aug, 2007
Caleb Folan Hull £1,000,000 31 Aug, 2007Paul Jewell
Players IN
Total Spent = £27.50 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 2
Average spent per season = £13.75 million
Emile Heskey Birmingham £5,500,000 07 Jul, 2006
Denny Landzaat AZ Alkmaar £2,500,000 18 Jul, 2006
Emmerson Boyce C Palace £1,000,000 01 Aug, 2006
Kevin Kilbane Everton £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2006
David Cotterill Bristol C £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2006
Andy Webster Hearts Signed 31 Aug, 2006
Chris Kirkland Liverpool Signed 27 Oct, 2006
David Unsworth Sheff Utd Free 05 Jan, 2007
Caleb Folan Chesterfield £500,000 26 Jan, 2007
Julius Aghahowa Shakhtar £2,100,000 31 Jan, 2007
Titus Bramble Newcastle Free 04 Jun, 2007
Antoine Sibierski Newcastle Free 04 Jun, 2007
Mario Melchiot Rennes Free 15 Jun, 2007
Andreas Granqvist Helsingborgs Signed 19 Jun, 2007
Mike Pollitt Rotherham £200,000 30 Jun, 2005
Pascal Chimbonda Bastia £500,000 08 Jul, 2005
Ryan Taylor Tranmere £750,000 13 Jul, 2005
Stephane Henchoz Celtic Free 27 Jul, 2005
Damien Francis Norwich Signed 05 Aug, 2005
Henri Camara Wolves £3,000,000 06 Aug, 2005
Arjan De Zeeuw Portsmouth Signed 11 Aug, 2005
David Connolly Leicester £2,000,000 31 Aug, 2005
Josip Skoko Genclerbirligi Signed 31 Aug, 2005
Paul Scharner Brann £2,500,000 06 Jan, 2006
David Thompson Blackburn Free 19 Jan, 2006
Fitz Hall C Palace £3,000,000 26 Jun, 2006Players OUT
Total Spent = £17.80 Million
Seasons worth of Transfer Window’s = 2
Average Gained per season = £8.9 million
Jason Roberts Blackburn £3,000,000 03 Jul, 2006
Kevin Lee Southport Free 18 Jul, 2006
David Thompson Portsmouth Free 28 Jul, 2006
Michael Hazeldine Alloa Signed 01 Aug, 2006
Pascal Chimbonda Tottenham £4,500,000 31 Aug, 2006
Graham Kavanagh Sunderland £500,000 31 Aug, 2006
David Connolly Sunderland £1,400,000 31 Aug, 2006
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn Free 08 Sep, 2006
David Wright Ipswich Signed 11 Jan, 2007
Gary Teale Derby £600,000 11 Jan, 2007
Matt Jackson Watford Free 24 May, 2007
Arjan De Zeeuw Coventry Free 30 Jun, 2007
Andreas Johansson Aalborg Free 01 Jul, 2007
Nicky Eaden Nottm Forest Free 01 Jul, 2005
Ian Breckin Nottm Forest £350,000 06 Jul, 2005
Gareth Whalley Swindon Signed 13 Jul, 2005
David Graham Sheff Wed £250,000 12 Aug, 2005
Nathan Ellington West Brom £3,000,000 14 Aug, 2005
Jimmy Bullard Fulham £2,500,000 08 May, 2006
Alan Mahon Burnley £200,000 08 Jun, 2006
Luke Joyce Carlisle Free 01 Jul, 2006
Phil Edwards Accrington Free 01 Jul, 2006
Damien Francis Watford £1,500,000 01 Jul, 2006Salford,any jobs gooin at your place marrer ;)
Now what was that statement that mark twain made about benjamin disraeli
i’ll leave that for you to google
I am afraid manipulating data so martinez benefits from the sale of players(valencia)who had left the club before martinez arrived, or cattermole who never played for martinez just smacks of desperation – how on earth can any current manager benefit from a previous ones plus column , not one of martinezs signings have shown a profit and when we are relegated the value of the ones hes signed will drop even more.
Oh i just remembered what that american fellow said now, something about lies & damn lies wasnt it.
The biggest load of crap since last weeks daily express imigration scare.
I fear for you LMB,you just cannot get on europes best young managers back, and think you can escape from his litttle bunnies who use this site :dry:
Now what was that statement that mark twain made about benjamin disraelii’ll leave that for you to google
I am afraid manipulating data so martinez benefits from the sale of players(valencia)who had left the club before martinez arrived, or cattermole who never played for martinez just smacks of desperation – how on earth can any current manager benefit from a previous ones plus column , not one of martinezs signings have shown a profit and when we are relegated the value of the ones hes signed will drop even more.
Oh i just remembered what that american fellow said now, something about lies & damn lies wasnt it.
The biggest load of crap since last weeks daily express imigration scare.
Of course he should be shown to benefit from the sales of Valencia and Cattermole!
The whole point of highlighting the sales as well as purchases is give a net spend figure, not to say ‘Isn’t Roberto clever getting all the money by selling Valencia’.
If he’d used funds won on a scratch card bought by Steve Bruce, I’m sure that would have been shown too.
No, he hasn’t received profit for any of the players he signed – because only three of his signing have left (loan signings not included):
Amaya came as part of the Diame deal, and left for nothing.
Steven Caldwell arrived on a free, and a year later left on a free.
Scotland was signed for £2 million, and sold for £1 million.
It’s hardly a massive loss in the grand scheme of things is it, considering he’s probably saved in the region of £4 million just by offloading Bramble, De Ridder, Brown and Cattermole and bringing in players on lower salaries?
I fear for you LMB,you just cannot get on europes best young managers back, and think you can escape from his litttle bunnies who use this site :dry:Who’s called him ‘Europe’s best young manager’ other than you?
Now what was that statement that mark twain made about benjamin disraeli
i’ll leave that for you to google
I am afraid manipulating data so martinez benefits from the sale of players(valencia)who had left the club before martinez arrived, or cattermole who never played for martinez just smacks of desperation – how on earth can any current manager benefit from a previous ones plus column , not one of martinezs signings have shown a profit and when we are relegated the value of the ones hes signed will drop even more.
Oh i just remembered what that american fellow said now, something about lies & damn lies wasnt it.
The biggest load of crap since last weeks daily express imigration scare.
Of course he should be shown to benefit from the sales of Valencia and Cattermole!
The whole point of highlighting the sales as well as purchases is give a net spend figure, not to say ‘Isn’t Roberto clever getting all the money by selling Valencia’.
If he’d used funds won on a scratch card bought by Steve Bruce, I’m sure that would have been shown too.
No, he hasn’t received profit for any of the players he signed – because only three of his signing have left (loan signings not included):
Amaya came as part of the Diame deal, and left for nothing.
Steven Caldwell arrived on a free, and a year later left on a free.
Scotland was signed for £2 million, and sold for £1 million.
It’s hardly a massive loss in the grand scheme of things is it, considering he’s probably saved in the region of £4 million just by offloading Bramble, De Ridder, Brown and Cattermole and bringing in players on lower salaries?[/quote]
For christs sake standish have you had some form of brain surgery that has effected your reasoning – how on earth can martinez be credited on what is basically a profit and loss cash book, 16 million in credit for valencia or 6 mill for cattermole ?
Their purchase and sales values had been concluded before martinez was in control, any manager can only be judged on net worth, what he’s spent, the return he got for his investment and value of any sale.From where I see it martinez is being credited with over 31 million pounds (valencia, cattermole, nzogbia) that he is not entitled to although in nzogbia’s case, playing under martinez suited him and added value to his net worth this is something that must also be included in any comparisons.
Why shouldn’t Martinez be credited? According to those stats Bruce is being credited for buying Valencia. Was it not Jewell who signed him?
Why shouldn’t Martinez be credited? According to those stats Bruce is being credited for buying Valencia. Was it not Jewell who signed him?I thought it was Bruce who signed him !!
bruce should not be credited for the signing of valencia and it should not be in his plus or minus columns and nobody has suggested that anyway.
The question asked by the originator of this thread was value for money and which of the 4 premiership managers we have had has provided the best value.
On the face of it his figures go on to show that martinez has given the best value, but if you examine the figures closer he used less than reliable details to come up with that nonsense and that is all I have said and will repeat martinez is being credited with a plus colummn that is 30 million pounds more that the actual truth – but once again why let truth get in the way of legitimising how much martinez is better than his predecessors.
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