Value for money….

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  • #82100
    loudmouthbluedamian walker
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    I can’t believe that anyone is even remotely surpised that LMB didn’t spurn the opportunity to turn a light-hearted, admitted-by-the-author flawed analysis into yet another dreary anti-Martinez rant. Tedious beyond belief, now.

    you braindead moron and that is an insult of the highest order

    read any of the previous posts on this thread and show me where i have made any anti martinez rant.

    The whole topic is a flawed attempt to indicate that player profits and value was better under martinez than previous incumbents, i will even paste the opening paragraph:-

    After debating some of Bruce’s signings versus Martinez signings and Filmoss’s bizarre statement that he expects more for his £295 season ticket it got me thinking who out of our few premier league managers have delivered the best value for money in terms of players signed

    The data went on to show that overall martinez had made more year on year and total profit than his predecessors, which i offered a counter argument against because it just isnt true which ever way the figures are massaged.
    The only reference i have made to martinez dierctly was actually a compliment – and again i will paste it for your benefit:-

    From where I see it martinez is being credited with over 31 million pounds (valencia, cattermole, nzogbia) that he is not entitled to although in nzogbia’s case, playing under martinez suited him and added value to his net worth this is something that must also be included in any comparisons.

    The only person making “anti” anyone “rants” is is you and predictably they are aimed once again in my direction with all the malice you can muster, i suggest you actually start to read what is going on before leting your pre determined opinion get in the way of the facts and that is the real tedium you mentioned.[/quote]

    I suggest you go for a walk get some fresh air and come back and re-read the below extract.

    “the best value for money in terms of players signed”

    At what point does that make any reference to any players being sold and getting credit for the profit made?

    Its all about how much in transfer fee’s have been spent.

    Considering Bruce spent an average of 10 Million plus per season more than Martinez if you were to apply that to Martinez’s budget for 2 seasons you could Sign defoe out of the first £10 Million and then pay Defoe £48,076.92 per week for 4 years out of the next years £10million extra in the budget.

    Back to the original point who is the best value for money?

    Quite clearly Martinez over Bruce as he is in his 3rd season in the premier league having spent on average of half of what bruce did in a season ( that completely excludes transfer funds gained! )

    Should we pull Bruce’s spending figures in from his recent Sunderland stint to back up my comment?[/quote]

    are these not your words that I have copy and pasted then

    Average Net Profits Per Season

    Roberto Martinez = £ 0.58 Million
    Steve Bruce = £ -9.2 Million
    Chris Hutchings = £ 7.3 Million
    Paul Jewell = £ -4.85 Million

    Net Wigan Career Profit

    Roberto Martinez = £1.74 Million
    Steve Bruce = £-13.80 Million
    Chris Hutchings = £3.65 Million
    Paul Jewell = £-9.7 Million

    I could not give a damn about bruce, my stance all along and for the past 3 seasons is against the blame every ill we have on bruce cliches’, deadwood, overpaying players, lack of footballing skill players in defence of martinez’s ineptitude.

    I disagree with your interpretation of the figures you came up with as you cannot credit any of the 4 premierships managers gross spend without balancing it against gross income, it is basic economics, but it just shows how statistcs can be manipulated to suit any arguement abd why i quoted the famous mark twain analogy of lies, damn lies and statistics.

    on your figures martinez has spent £31.76 million but out of that money he has brought in only about £2 mill on sales of his signings so taht is a net value of £29.76 over 3 seasons or £9.92 per season(minus as thats what he has cost us),

    In bruces case i don’t think valencia can be included at all in either column, even though the purchase payment was in his tenure he remains jewells success story if you accept this bruces spend should read £26 million not £31m the money returned on sales of people he signed is the £17.2 you stated plus the £15.5 received for cattermole and nzogbia that makes a total income of some £32.7 million so that is now a net profit of £6.7 million so in his 1.5 seasons we are better off as a club by some £4.466 million a year.

    If you divide that up into points gained per £millons spent, your “Statistically Martinez gets 0.05 more goals per game for 10.08 million less than Bruce per season“claim is again totally untrue.

    #82101
    salford_latic44Salford_Latic44
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    I can’t believe that anyone is even remotely surpised that LMB didn’t spurn the opportunity to turn a light-hearted, admitted-by-the-author flawed analysis into yet another dreary anti-Martinez rant. Tedious beyond belief, now.

    you braindead moron and that is an insult of the highest order

    read any of the previous posts on this thread and show me where i have made any anti martinez rant.

    The whole topic is a flawed attempt to indicate that player profits and value was better under martinez than previous incumbents, i will even paste the opening paragraph:-

    After debating some of Bruce’s signings versus Martinez signings and Filmoss’s bizarre statement that he expects more for his £295 season ticket it got me thinking who out of our few premier league managers have delivered the best value for money in terms of players signed

    The data went on to show that overall martinez had made more year on year and total profit than his predecessors, which i offered a counter argument against because it just isnt true which ever way the figures are massaged.
    The only reference i have made to martinez dierctly was actually a compliment – and again i will paste it for your benefit:-

    From where I see it martinez is being credited with over 31 million pounds (valencia, cattermole, nzogbia) that he is not entitled to although in nzogbia’s case, playing under martinez suited him and added value to his net worth this is something that must also be included in any comparisons.

    The only person making “anti” anyone “rants” is is you and predictably they are aimed once again in my direction with all the malice you can muster, i suggest you actually start to read what is going on before leting your pre determined opinion get in the way of the facts and that is the real tedium you mentioned.[/quote]

    I suggest you go for a walk get some fresh air and come back and re-read the below extract.

    “the best value for money in terms of players signed”

    At what point does that make any reference to any players being sold and getting credit for the profit made?

    Its all about how much in transfer fee’s have been spent.

    Considering Bruce spent an average of 10 Million plus per season more than Martinez if you were to apply that to Martinez’s budget for 2 seasons you could Sign defoe out of the first £10 Million and then pay Defoe £48,076.92 per week for 4 years out of the next years £10million extra in the budget.

    Back to the original point who is the best value for money?

    Quite clearly Martinez over Bruce as he is in his 3rd season in the premier league having spent on average of half of what bruce did in a season ( that completely excludes transfer funds gained! )

    Should we pull Bruce’s spending figures in from his recent Sunderland stint to back up my comment?[/quote]

    are these not your words that I have copy and pasted then

    Average Net Profits Per Season

    Roberto Martinez = £ 0.58 Million
    Steve Bruce = £ -9.2 Million
    Chris Hutchings = £ 7.3 Million
    Paul Jewell = £ -4.85 Million

    Net Wigan Career Profit

    Roberto Martinez = £1.74 Million
    Steve Bruce = £-13.80 Million
    Chris Hutchings = £3.65 Million
    Paul Jewell = £-9.7 Million

    I could not give a damn about bruce, my stance all along and for the past 3 seasons is against the blame every ill we have on bruce cliches’, deadwood, overpaying players, lack of footballing skill players in defence of martinez’s ineptitude.

    I disagree with your interpretation of the figures you came up with as you cannot credit any of the 4 premierships managers gross spend without balancing it against gross income, it is basic economics, but it just shows how statistcs can be manipulated to suit any arguement abd why i quoted the famous mark twain analogy of lies, damn lies and statistics.

    on your figures martinez has spent £31.76 million but out of that money he has brought in only about £2 mill on sales of his signings so taht is a net value of £29.76 over 3 seasons or £9.92 per season(minus as thats what he has cost us),

    In bruces case i don’t think valencia can be included at all in either column, even though the purchase payment was in his tenure he remains jewells success story if you accept this bruces spend should read £26 million not £31m the money returned on sales of people he signed is the £17.2 you stated plus the £15.5 received for cattermole and nzogbia that makes a total income of some £32.7 million so that is now a net profit of £6.7 million so in his 1.5 seasons we are better off as a club by some £4.466 million a year.

    If you divide that up into points gained per £millons spent, your “Statistically Martinez gets 0.05 more goals per game for 10.08 million less than Bruce per season“claim is again totally untrue.[/quote]

    your the only one manipulating the statistics for your own point of view mongoid….

    According to my apparently twisted statistics Chris Hutchings is leading the race by a country mile!

    As I said I’m not saying they are 100% accurate but they are a lot closer than you will ever get with your £4 million’s for Di Santo and £3 million’s for Scotland!!

    But if you can point out any discrepancies please do so and I will be happy to update so that once we can all agree the basic info is 99% accurate we can look at all the variable statistics you want to!

    #82102
    loudmouthbluedamian walker
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    you braindead moron and that is an insult of the highest order

    Really? I’ve had much, much worse insults from much more intelligent people than you, to be fair.

    Thanks though, you’ve put a smile on my face before I embark on the afternoon’s endeavours.

    You seriously expect me to go back and read stuff you have written that, as you so astutely guessed, I hadn’t even read properly in the first place??

    Yeah, right[/quote]

    you really are a pompous arrogant prick aren’t you

    “Lo que un hombre educado, informado e ingenioso” yeah in your own fucking mind.[/quote]

    I have a whole department looking over my shoulder at my screen and laughing at you right now.

    One wants to know if you’re in my son’s class at school[/quote]

    Do you not think that maybe they may also be laughing at you as well, as they know you better than i do and probably realise the remark is pretty much spot on, it seems that is another astute guess on my part as I have just had a PM of someone who says he actually knows you well and even claims he is part of your matchday entourage to confirm my opinion that you are indeed a “pompous arrogant prick”

    #82104
    griffChris Griffin
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    …I have just had a PM of someone who says he actually knows you well and even claims he is part of your matchday entourage to confirm my opinion that you are indeed a “pompous arrogant prick”

    Well, given that my matchday entourage is me + 3, sometimes 4, others, I can narrow that down pretty much. It would be very interesting to learn which one of the four it is. It will make for a very interesting matchday experience tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up, though.

    #82105
    loudmouthbluedamian walker
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    your the only one manipulating the statistics for your own point of view mongoid….

    According to my apparently twisted statistics Chris Hutchings is leading the race by a country mile!

    As I said I’m not saying they are 100% accurate but they are a lot closer than you will ever get with your £4 million’s for Di Santo and £3 million’s for Scotland!!

    But if you can point out any discrepancies please do so and I will be happy to update so that once we can all agree the basic info is 99% accurate we can look at all the variable statistics you want to!

    my mistakes in the costs for di santo or scotland are irrelevent as i used the figures you quoted – ones that you claim to have taken from that media source that includes chelsea’s david luis in its weekly, monthly, season best player results(do me a favour)so can you please explain how i am manipulating any statistics.

    if your figures show that hutchins is the leading candidate it puts into perspective how wrong they are when bramble is the only signing he made that has shown any return, btw that is another 1 mill you credited to martinez that should not be there, but hutchins did make a profit on bramble something that martinez is yet to achieve.

    #82107
    loudmouthbluedamian walker
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    …I have just had a PM of someone who says he actually knows you well and even claims he is part of your matchday entourage to confirm my opinion that you are indeed a “pompous arrogant prick”

    Well, given that my matchday entourage is me + 3, sometimes 4, others, I can narrow that down pretty much. It would be very interesting to learn which one of the four it is. It will make for a very interesting matchday experience tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up, though.[/quote]

    before you go accusing your ACTUAL entourage, i will come clean and confess that was my wording,and i apologise for that, the person actually claims he has a drink with you post match, so you need to cast your net a little wider than you originally planned.

    #82108
    salford_latic44Salford_Latic44
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    Gloryhunter!!!!!!

    Why don’t you support United

    You never did tell me about Wigan V Tulsa Roughneck’s… :side:

    #82112
    Anonymous
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    Rumbled

    #82113
    griffChris Griffin
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    before you go accusing your ACTUAL entourage, i will come clean and confess that was my wording,and i apologise for that, the person actually claims he has a drink with you post match, so you need to cast your net a little wider than you originally planned.

    Don’t start back-tracking now, just because you realise that you and your big childish loud mouth has potentially dropped you in it with someone who sent you what they presumably thought was a confidential message.

    I know for a fact it wasn’t one of my ACTUAL entourage, as you put it. Not sure what kind of ‘mates’ you have but I never thought for one minute it was one of them, to be fair. By the way, that’s another group of people you’ve managed to get laughing at you this afternoon.

    Your confidant (well, presumably now ex-confidant) will no doubt be pleased to know that we have now narrowed it down to just three possibilities based on the information you kindly provided. That’s three possibilities, but possibly only two families involved though.

    But, as they are not really ‘mates’, their opinion, much like yours, counts for nothing.

    #82116
    loudmouthbluedamian walker
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    before you go accusing your ACTUAL entourage, i will come clean and confess that was my wording,and i apologise for that, the person actually claims he has a drink with you post match, so you need to cast your net a little wider than you originally planned.

    Don’t start back-tracking now, just because you realise that you and your big childish loud mouth has potentially dropped you in it with someone who sent you what they presumably thought was a confidential message.

    I know for a fact it wasn’t one of my ACTUAL entourage, as you put it. Not sure what kind of ‘mates’ you have but I never thought for one minute it was one of them, to be fair. By the way, that’s another group of people you’ve managed to get laughing at you this afternoon.

    Your confidant (well, presumably now ex-confidant) will no doubt be pleased to know that we have now narrowed it down to just three possibilities based on the information you kindly provided. That’s three possibilities, but possibly only two families involved though.

    But, as they are not really ‘mates’, their opinion, much like yours, counts for nothing.[/quote]

    they are not laughing half as much as me at your discomfort in knowing that that someone you actually have a drink with thinks you are both pompous and arrogant, nothing wrong with that as we all have opinions both positive and negative on people we socialise with, but the fact they are prepared to share their thoughts with me a complete stranger speaks volumes.
    I dont give a flying fig about betraying someones confidence, and I am not back tracking, if they are prepared to send me a PM they should expect the consequences, in fact if you ask me I will tell you who it was or even forward you the PM, I dont know them and its no skin off my nose.

    #82119
    salford_latic44Salford_Latic44
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    before you go accusing your ACTUAL entourage, i will come clean and confess that was my wording,and i apologise for that, the person actually claims he has a drink with you post match, so you need to cast your net a little wider than you originally planned.

    Don’t start back-tracking now, just because you realise that you and your big childish loud mouth has potentially dropped you in it with someone who sent you what they presumably thought was a confidential message.

    I know for a fact it wasn’t one of my ACTUAL entourage, as you put it. Not sure what kind of ‘mates’ you have but I never thought for one minute it was one of them, to be fair. By the way, that’s another group of people you’ve managed to get laughing at you this afternoon.

    Your confidant (well, presumably now ex-confidant) will no doubt be pleased to know that we have now narrowed it down to just three possibilities based on the information you kindly provided. That’s three possibilities, but possibly only two families involved though.

    But, as they are not really ‘mates’, their opinion, much like yours, counts for nothing.[/quote]

    they are not laughing half as much as me at your discomfort in knowing that that someone you actually have a drink with thinks you are both pompous and arrogant, nothing wrong with that as we all have opinions both positive and negative on people we socialise with, but the fact they are prepared to share their thoughts with me a complete stranger speaks volumes.
    I dont give a flying fig about betraying someones confidence, and I am not back tracking, if they are prepared to send me a PM they should expect the consequences, in fact if you ask me I will tell you who it was or even forward you the PM, I dont know them and its no skin off my nose.[/quote]

    Grass..

    #82121
    ScholesControlScholesControl
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    BREAKDOWN ALERT

    #82122
    NuneatonlaticNuneatonlatic
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    Honest to christ,fellas,lets calm down a bit it sounds like a Rangers v Celtic hate forum.In case some of us are losing sight of things WE ARE ALL WIGAN ATHLETIC FANS ON HERE,tho you would never guess.

    #82124
    griffChris Griffin
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    before you go accusing your ACTUAL entourage, i will come clean and confess that was my wording,and i apologise for that, the person actually claims he has a drink with you post match, so you need to cast your net a little wider than you originally planned.

    Don’t start back-tracking now, just because you realise that you and your big childish loud mouth has potentially dropped you in it with someone who sent you what they presumably thought was a confidential message.

    I know for a fact it wasn’t one of my ACTUAL entourage, as you put it. Not sure what kind of ‘mates’ you have but I never thought for one minute it was one of them, to be fair. By the way, that’s another group of people you’ve managed to get laughing at you this afternoon.

    Your confidant (well, presumably now ex-confidant) will no doubt be pleased to know that we have now narrowed it down to just three possibilities based on the information you kindly provided. That’s three possibilities, but possibly only two families involved though.

    But, as they are not really ‘mates’, their opinion, much like yours, counts for nothing.[/quote]

    they are not laughing half as much as me at your discomfort in knowing that that someone you actually have a drink with thinks you are both pompous and arrogant, nothing wrong with that as we all have opinions both positive and negative on people we socialise with, but the fact they are prepared to share their thoughts with me a complete stranger speaks volumes.
    I dont give a flying fig about betraying someones confidence, and I am not back tracking, if they are prepared to send me a PM they should expect the consequences, in fact if you ask me I will tell you who it was or even forward you the PM, I dont know them and its no skin off my nose.[/quote]

    Well, what a nice fellow you are, aren’t you? No thanks, not remotely interested in seeing the PM (you know the P stands for private, don’t you?) because as we have established it’s not one of my mates or z member of my family, I really don’t give a flyer.

    Me feeling some discomfort? Surely, as a pompous arrogant prick, I would feel no discomfort whatsoever?

    #82127
    filmossfilmoss
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    I stand outside so technically I don’t drink with him but I do bob over now and again for some ” Neutral ground ” banter !!

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