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the worse thing is being preached to by a ‘stone island’ clad CREW/LAD/HOOLIGAN (take your pick which),especially one who is a feature writer for the elitist muddhutter magazine
I’m offended, I’ve not bought any Stone Island since ’94 and probably gave what gear I had to the jumble sale ten years ago :roll:
As I am the author of that piece, please provide evidence that I am a hooligan (perhaps details of my criminal record, history of banning order or maybe even some pictures of me in ‘action’).
Or maybe just save yourself the bother as you won’t find any and as others have pointed out on this thread you are a LIAR and any decent sort of human being would perhaps be grown up enough to apologise at this point especially as many people on this thread have verified that it isn’t true.
Also, you mention the word elitist, have you ever read the fanzine or website? Every single issue I send out a plea for people to contribute, no matter what their views or background, and it’s very rare that anything doesn’t get printed. It is a completely open offer to anyone – does this fit the description of elitist or are you lying about me again?
I’ve highlighted a few words above in bold, please try and ascertain who they fit in line with the description ‘elitist’
that has spent its whole existance berating brenda spencer, john benson or dave whelan while at the same time worshipping FC United fans who did exactly what that buffoon is up in arms about wigan fans doing now,and walk away from THEIR club.Ooh a debate on ownership of football clubs and their finances, I’m in mr loudmouth!!
First of all, you appear to be confused? Are you comparing Wigan Athletic with FC United? Or as it would appear more logical are you are comparing Wigan Athletic with Manchester United? Do you have even the faintest idea why FC United were formed?
Let’s concentrate on the four key football finance areas of ownership debt, operating profits/losses, servicing interest payments & ticket pricing
Wigan Athletic is backed by one man whom without him we would be at best playing three or four levels below where we are. He has not got the club into debt – he IS the debt covering the £55m losses with a £40m interest free loan and a £15m bank overdraft secured on his personal land and assets.
Manchester United have been purchased by nearly £650m of leveraged buyout funds (that’s someone else’s money in layman’s terms) by a bunch of American sharks who draw up to £30m per annum out of the football club in personal funds and have laden the club with £60m of debt interest charges per annum meaning that the likelihood of them making any profit at EBITDA level is nigh impossible.
The average season ticket price at Old Trafford has increased from £487 in May 2005 to £722 this year, the season tickets in this time at Wigan have increased from £250 to £250, just over half the price that United tickets were five years ago?
Club saddled with expensive debt while the owners take millions out in drawings and even more debts to services the large interest payments running at 14% of turnover and eating away at profits and expensive ticket prices = unhappy fans
Interest free loans from owners without which club would be insolvent, covering accumulated losses out of owners own pocket and cheap ticket prices (should) = happy fans
I don’t see how Wigan Athletic fans have anything to protest about, save for your daily repetitive diatribe against the manager.
as one who has been going to away days on and off since our entry in 1978 to the football league, most away matches have only been attended by one supporters club coach, this 100’s of ‘lads’ on a day out every week is as true as the stuff written in that 500 bc fanzine Aesop’s Fables,
the ‘lads’ despite what they claim only went to games every now and again – cup matches or bolton,preston and tranmere or anywhere else were there was a chance of some action from opposing teams ‘lads’.the true away supporters all knew one another or a least you regognised their faces – even now you bump into someone you havent seen since the springfield park days and the conversation always drifts to “do you remember when we went to ???????”
fec me riks bar only opened its doors and closed again in the last few years and arky has never run his tour bus every week – mostly big matches only and more often in promotion/first year premiership days and we all know it, work,families and banning orders have thrown the last sentance right out of the window – but why let facts cloud that.
I feel I must apologise now for not being a superfan like you as I have not been going since 1978, most probably because I was 4 years old.
I started going in the mid 80’s and I reckon from 1987-91 missed no more than half a dozen games (for 2 seasons running the only game I missed was Aldershot away as I couldn’t get time off school). I was at Bournemouth when we got relegated and the coffin was carried around the away end. I was at the Plymouth home game the week before when Peter Shilton was in the nets and I was at the game Vat mentioned at West Brom when Bob Taylor banged in a hat trick (I think)
I’ve been to night away games at Gillingham, Southend & Fulham when there were less than 50 Latics fans in the away end. I’ve served my time on the Supporters Club coach, by car and train and Darren Todd’s Elite Travel Club (remember than one eh loudmouth?) but hey I’m starting to sound like you now so I’ll shut up.
As I’ve said elsewhere it doesn’t make me a single bit better than anyone else and I wouldn’t have brought it up at all only that you did…
Except to say that lots of other people who write for the fanzine can and do also write very eloquently about such periods and the non league days and frequently do, so we’re either all a bunch of liars (and it’s a bit of a risk to put lies in print, it kind of invites libel action) or you’re lying again loudmouth……incidentally 3 of our contributors are in their 20’s so quite how they were supposed to be there when we were at our lowest ebb I don’t know as they were probably in nappies. I’ve not even met a few of our contributors, so much for the elitist theory
By your logic it seems that because the article covered a period of our success, this therefore means that me, the author and everyone associated with Mudhutter, whether they be in their 20’s or 50’s was never there?? Now who’s generalising
The article was specifically describing the rise and fall of the club, the rise beginning a couple of years after Whelan joined and we moved to the DW. I can talk to you about the Kenny Swain years (why it’s even mentioned in that article that I sent my train tickets from a game away at Colchester to Kenny Swain after we’d got gubbed 3-1 out of frustration) and I can talk about the John Deehan Championship season but that wasn’t what the article was about.
Did you expect me to write about every game I’ve ever been to, which must run to a thousand or two over 25 years just so that I can satisfy you that I was there?
Even in the 4th div championship season we only got 4,000 on most weeks, the rise really began when we moved to the DW and part of the fun was that Arky started to run coaches for like minded folk, some of whom enjoyed a nice social drink as part of the day out. It’s only relevant because they were good times after a few years in the doldrums
After all this mr loudmouth, you know what if you turn up and support them just as I do and indeed you have done for much longer than me I’m in no position to preach to you, or indeed anyone who goes, even though I find your one dimensional argument a bit droll and repetitive. You pay your money, you’re entitled to your opininon, I hope but cannot guarantee that Bob turns things round and wins over even his harshest of critics like yourself.
The whole article was based around the 16,000 home fans who turned up in our first Premier League season who are now down to 10,000. This worries and frustrates me -and yes the football worries and frustrates me and I have been critical of the manager, I just don’t see an alternative to Roberto Martinez mainly because I have ten times the awareness you have of the financial circumstances under which he is operating so I will support him because the alternative (a Dowie or a return of Paul Jewell dare I say) it simply wouldn’t work at this football club any more
i am so glad you have got that load off your chest,you must feel like you are over a severe bout of constipation,you seem to have disected everything i have previously written and formulated your answers based on that,though it took you 4 days so to respond so i must have at least made you think,
i have just read your piece and while there are some things that do bare up to your scrutiny,much of what you say still is as lob sided as your original rant,i will now look at the original and this latest notion of yours and spend the next 4 days considering my response.i am so glad you have got that load off your chest,you must feel like you are over a severe bout of constipation,you seem to have disected everything i have previously written and formulated your answers based on that,though it took you 4 days so to respond so i must have at least made you think,
i have just read your piece and while there are some things that do bare up to your scrutiny,much of what you say still is as lob sided as your original rant,i will now look at the original and this latest notion of yours and spend the next 4 days considering my response.I have to point out that Jimmy’s username was only authorised on Sunday night as I generally only check them once a week and that is usually mid week, so don’t blame him for spending ages getting a reply together as it would have been impossible for him to post unitil I had authoriused him.
I also would like to stress that if it were not for Jimmy and the others who started off Cockney Latic, we wouldn’t be here debating this at all. I think a bit more respect should be given to some-one who bleeds Wigan Athletic and is also one of the best people you would want to meet.
FA Cup Winners 2013, sounds good that
Oh ‘eck, LMB.. Not my fight at all but your waiting for 4 days response smacks of not really having an answer.
Oh, and I know for a fact jimmy was away for 4 days, because it caused my fantasy football league a problem for a while.
i am so glad you have got that load off your chest,you must feel like you are over a severe bout of constipation,you seem to have disected everything i have previously written and formulated your answers based on that,though it took you 4 days so to respond so i must have at least made you think,
i have just read your piece and while there are some things that do bare up to your scrutiny,much of what you say still is as lob sided as your original rant,i will now look at the original and this latest notion of yours and spend the next 4 days considering my response.No need, I say things as I feel. It was meant to provoke debate and a by-product of that is disagreement. No big deal
I had a million and one more productive things to do yesterday and indeed do so generally. One response per person per day is ample, I’m a very busy man but I’ll get there eventually ;)
It took me the length of time it took me to type it and do the little quote thingies which felt like time well invested given someone has felt the need to write a pack of lies about me, my background and the dedicated people who help me put together the fanzine and whose critique of the article under question does not beyond dismissing it as drivel.
If you’ve anything productive to say (an apology perhaps?) or indeed any legitimate criticisms I’ll happily take them on board and maybe respond in due course.
Oh ‘eck, LMB.. Not my fight at all but your waiting for 4 days response smacks of not really having an answer.Oh, and I know for a fact jimmy was away for 4 days, because it caused my fantasy football league a problem for a while.
there is so much in the first article i wanted to pick holes in it would have taken me 2 days to write a response – now he has come back with a retort and thrown accusasions in my direction,which i fully expected and welcome, i honestly will take a couple of hours to defend my stance,i could have just waffled on when i read this latest piece(like i normally do) and kept switching back to both while preparing my reply, but it would have taken me forever,so when i have chance i will sit down with a pot of coffee and take my time.
one thing this whole thread has taught me is how divided as fans martinez has made us all,in my whole time watching wigan athletic have i ever known such depth of feelings over a manager – we have all had differing opinions in the past about direction and styles the managers adopted,but we were always all together in wafc v the rest of the world – this last 14 months or so has shown a division i never thought i would ever see as a wigan athletic fan.
I also would like to stress that if it were not for Jimmy and the others who started off Cockney Latic, we wouldn’t be here debating this at all. I think a bit more respect should be given to some-one who bleeds Wigan Athletic and is also one of the best people you would want to meet.Whoa steady Jay (and Griff) I’m blushing here :oops:
I don’t pretend to be anything other than a fan who likes writing. And the only thing I can write about is Latics.
I’m not bothered if people disagree with my stuff but to dismiss it all as drivel without any reason as to why it is (in their erudite opinion) drivel is a bit bewildering and is probably more down to where it’s come from/who’s written it rather than what it actually says
There’s a lot of water gone under the bridge and certain things I regret about the last few years since I moved away from this site which I’m not going to go over now. I’ve made mistakes, done things I regret and if I had my time again and all that but certainly me, Jay & John get on so why all the animosity elsewhere.
Nor am I proud if there has been a ‘them and us’ attitude between certain factions on Mudhuts and here at times, it’s something I’ve tried to distance myself from all the more so now that the football club needs it’s fans to stick together.
As I said in the piece, the site admins all know each other and work together when it’s called for, these are the people who do all the work and give people the opportunity to sound off at each other, so why the forum participants can’t bury hatchets I don’t know. Yes I know certain people off the Mudhuts site have stirred it but they are by no means the only ones, personally I just want to move on.
And yes I’ve had a go at our fans but some of them deserve it to be honest e.g. Wednesday night when Al Habsi threw the ball out to Caldwell who miscontrolled and it rolled straight into touch.
Bloke near me shouts: “Bloody hell Martinez”
Like it’s his fault!!!****I expect LMB to now point out that it was Martinez’s instruction for the keeper to throw the ball out ;) but you get the point
one thing this whole thread has taught me is how divided as fans martinez has made us all,in my whole time watching wigan athletic have i ever known such depth of feelings over a manager – we have all had differing opinions in the past about direction and styles the managers adopted,but we were always all together in wafc v the rest of the world – this last 14 months or so has shown a division i never thought i would ever see as a wigan athletic fan.Oh and LMB just read your reply after posting – that was the line I was originally going down with the article, people falling out and stuff but sometimes when I get going I end up somewhere completely different.
Obviously your view is that he’s ruining the club, my view is that he is doing the best he can and wants the best for the club AND that the crowds were already drifting away by a few thousand before he even arrived at the club.
I also doubt there is a manager out there who would fare any better working under the financial restrictions the club is trying to get within.
If we go down, even if we replace the manager, you’ll probably say it’s Martinez’s fault. I’ll maintain that it’s a miracle that we’ve lasted so long in the first place and it was probably going to happen sometime anyway.
I’m sure we can both agree that it’s not the best at the minute but I believe the fact that he wants the best for the club means he gets the benefit of my doubt and I’ll give him time to achieve it.
As I said, football’s not about one game, one season, it’s about the lifetime of the club and we’d be a lot stronger if we could stick together a bit more.
Utter shite LMB, stop making it about Martinez.
Do you know Jimmy personally, or do you not? Come on, I’m trying to whittle it down. ;)
Utter whale LMB, stop making it about Martinez.Do you know Jimmy personally, or do you not? Come on, I’m trying to whittle it down. ;)
its not about martinez – B U L L S H I T – jimmy t had a dig about fans not going to games – fans who comlpain about martinez and blame him for not wanting to pay to watch the rubbish served up week in week out 2 goals in 5 league games and 500 sideway passes speaks volumes –
–that is the only thing that this is all about–
oh and martinez’s supporters trying to shift blame away from THIER man and laying firmly at the feet of the ‘darkside’ because they are losing any defence they were able to use in the past with every passing game.
oh and i havent the foggiest if i know jimmy t or not,probably not personally -the most likely answer is i will know his face.
now he has come back with a retort and thrown accusasions in my direction,which i fully expected and welcomeYou accused me of being a hooligan, no not just a hooligan – a leader of a hooligan ‘firm’
The only thing I accused you of is being a liar for saying this
So prove I’m a hooligan and prove you’re not a liar
Dead easy. Take as long as you like
Cheers Griff, I was happy to let it lie but having thought about it, I don’t think I should ;)
As I said, football’s not about one game, one season, it’s about the lifetime of the club and we’d be a lot stronger if we could stick together a bit more.the trouble is jimmy t is myself and an ever growing band cannot stick together on the martinez issue – forget what you say about financial constraints he is working under – that goes without any issue from me
the mundane,negative crap seved up is nothing to do with money.
oh and while on the subject of financials constraints – lets talk about 6 million pounds spent on boselli – or the fact that john benson left this club because of a power struggle brought about when martinez insisted on signing him despite bensons official scouting report stating that he was not suited to the rigours of the premier league and should not be signed.
now you claim superior financial knowledge of the club to me,so you and your contacts check that little snippet.Well if you don’t know him, i think he’s due an apology, for labelling him a hooligan, don’t you think?
It’d be a start anyway, it’s one thing to disagree with what he was saying, but completely wrong to make insinuations like that.read what i said – i gave 3 options – he stands proud as an editor(sorry if he is not editor) but he is part of the editorial staff of a magazine that has contained articles waxing lyrical about past ‘lads’ days out and run ins with various other groups .
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