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This is clearly a case of positive discrimination rather than sexual discrimination.
However, in certain cases positive discrimination can redressed the imbalance caused by years, if not decades or centuries, of blatant discrimination based on sexual or ethnic orientation.
This is an example of one of those cases.
I understand what you are saying Sammy and agree that woman’s struggle against inequality is a noble and justifiable cause but do two wrongs make a right?
Discrimination is discrimination – can it be positive?
I don’t know the answer but it makes me feel uneasy when people talk about positive discrimination. I suppose it’s ok when it’s not you on the receiving end.[/quote]
An entertaining thought Owd Git and a possible discussion leveller.
Just to add one more type of incident that is prevalent within the work place and that is of personnel playing the ‘Race Card’.
In my time in management, when I worked for a living, I had several cases whereupon staff members tried to play this. Unfortunately, for them, I was equipped with the knowledge (and self belief and strength) to deal effectively with them. However, colleagues and others in business would tell me of their experiences of it as well (and they got away with it). Little reported, because of the potential furore and totally and shamelessly used and just as bad a case of any other form of racism.
If the glove were on the other hand, however
You can go to Radio 5 Live website and listen to Gary Richardsons’ piece about us and his interview with Lord Oulson who is trying everything to find a way of persecuting DW. He even advocates that what is said in private can no longer be deemed that (if it affects the well-being of persons, youth, and/or match fixing). Complete and utter tripe and smacks of the thought police. I think that he and the Kick It Out brigade have backed themselves into a corner by holding onto the shirt tails of a feeding frenzy media, opportunistic hacks and people like Tan and Gold trying to bully their way onto the big scene.
I agree that we, the club, should lie low for a while, however, Mr Whelan should be ready for a counter claim against these offensive and sickening people who have openly lambasted him in public.
This is what FA Chairman Greg Dyke said about the sexist e-mails Peter Scudamore sent:-
“In terms of FA disciplinary policy we, as the FA, could have considered taking action had Mr Scudamore’s statements been made in the public arena.
“However our policy has always been that we do not consider something stated in a private email communication to amount to professional misconduct.
“We do, however, consider the content of the emails to be totally inappropriate.”
I suspect that is what Whelan was referring to when he said he’d had assurances from the FA that no significant action would be taken against Mackay as a result of the text messages he’d sent.
So has a precedent been set and if so will that be changed now with respect to what Mackay has said? If Mackay is found guilty will that mean Scudamore is also guilty?
I am assuming text and email messages in this case are considered to be the same.[/quote]
Yes I believe a precedent has been set (I think I mentioned this point in an earlier post) and I totally agree that if MacKay is found guilty then so should be Scudamore.
I read recently that the FA were trying to manoeuvre their comments around Dykes’ findings, however, I think that will prove very difficult. The only way out for them would be to find as Dyke did for Scudamore, draw a line under it and put it down to part of the learning curve then make the necessary changes to their policies. Anything less will appear as double standards and will open them to the same trust currently being enjoyed by FIFA and the world cup allegations.
It was Tony Bliar’s idea women only shortlists.Now there was a conman… :lol:
Sorry Leyland but you’ll get PC idiots on your back with that kind of remark.
Everyone knows it’s conperson. ;)
This is clearly a case of positive discrimination rather than sexual discrimination.However, in certain cases positive discrimination can redressed the imbalance caused by years, if not decades or centuries, of blatant discrimination based on sexual or ethnic orientation.
This is an example of one of those cases.
Or it could be a case of the leadership pandering to the feminist pressure groups around the country and doing what they ‘think’ will win them more votes.
This is an example of one of those cases
There were a couple of empty seats around my area where there would normally be someone, however, their attendance at home games is a little erratic at best of times so I wont know if they have voted with feet until at least a few games have past.
As Zeb2 said “Before we dismiss all and anyone who turned their backs yesterday, it’s worth ‘thinking on’ a bit” – well it’s ben the best part of a week, a lot has been said and people have had plenty of time to “think on” – I know I have.
This deliberate, malicious and obscene purge by cheap journalists and sorry excuses for the human race in Tan, Gold et al has made me think that there are some evil people out there who’s only interest is not for what they say but for what it’s worth to their business and their malevolent egos. The adults, and educated among the commentators can see the real truth behind the story but it will unfortunately be too little too late and, I believe, when the dust settles on the matter there will be plenty ashamed of what they have said or done in relation to this matter.
Handing back your season ticket – so soon as well, is a sad state of affairs. I fully understand his position him being married to a foreign national and all, but I know of others in similar situations who have been annoyed at what was said and called Mr Whelan a silly, stupid, ignorant old fool but they have shown something else that is far more stronger. The grace of forgiveness for they KNOW that no malice or other evil intention was meant by his words. I also detected a softening of approach from the Kick It Out organisation that in their rush to pillory Mr Whelan their over-the-top and to-quick-to-damn approach could in fact affect their credibility in the future.
As a country, football family and local society we must all learn from this mistake – be that supporter of what Mr Whelan said or objector – but we do need to be rational, see the truth behind the lies, learn and move on so that this sort of situation may never arise again.
You can go to Radio 5 Live website and listen to Gary Richardsons’ piece about us and his interview with Lord Oulson who is trying everything to find a way of persecuting DW. He even advocates that what is said in private can no longer be deemed that (if it affects the well-being of persons, youth, and/or match fixing). Complete and utter tripe and smacks of the thought police. I think that he and the Kick It Out brigade have backed themselves into a corner by holding onto the shirt tails of a feeding frenzy media, opportunistic hacks and people like Tan and Gold trying to bully their way onto the big scene.
I agree that we, the club, should lie low for a while, however, Mr Whelan should be ready for a counter claim against these offensive and sickening people who have openly lambasted him in public.
Which bit of “The answer is not positive discrimination, shoe horning people into jobs they are not suited for, but to ask why aren’t certain groups of people suitable for those jobs. And do something about developing ALL people to be able to fit into those roles, not just the select cliques” are you struggling with?Which bit of:
Utter borrox Garswood and you back track faster than a (insert usual, generationally used stereotypical nonsense phrase here).
are you struggling with?
You said all that after the event – what you wrote, at the time, was how I described and how it was interpreted but you still attempted sanctimony by asking me if I was bothered to read. I had you down as being better than that Garswood.
My final word on the subject – we obviously disagree.
It pains me to say this (awaits Griffs’ I told you so ;) ) but Roger Espinoza was a nightmare today. He gave headless chickens a bad name and the number of times he gave the ball away (what on earth was that back heel) I was very pleased when he was substituted, although, for me, it should have been 10 minutes earlier.
Hey Ho!
See my separate thread, which I promise you I posted before I read this ;)[/quote]
Are your cats free on the 6th December? ;)
It pains me to say this (awaits Griffs’ I told you so ;) ) but Roger Espinoza was a nightmare today. He gave headless chickens a bad name and the number of times he gave the ball away (what on earth was that back heel) I was very pleased when he was substituted, although, for me, it should have been 10 minutes earlier.
Hey Ho!
Where did I say anything about positive discrimination? Where did I say that any particular club has to make quotas?I am remarking on the general fact that in football, when you add up all the directors, chief executives, managers, directors of football etc etc etc, the vast majority are white British. I am actually attacking organisations like Kick It Out if you weren’t so knee-jerk prejudiced to realise it. My point is that there is true discrimination out there that they ought to be concentrating on, not attacking people that they may have used an outdated expression.
The answer is not positive discrimination, shoe horning people into jobs they are not suited for, but to ask why aren’t certain groups of people suitable for those jobs. And do something about developing ALL people to be able to fit into those roles, not just the select cliques.
And if you had even bothered to read the end of the paragraph you have so helpfully highlighted, you will see that I am also complaining that white working-class ordinary supporters have no voice on FA committees.
So get off your high horse.
Utter borrox Garswood and you back track faster than a (insert usual, generationally used stereotypical nonsense phrase here).
Look, you said, and I’ll quote it again:
“I am hugely offended by chairmen never appointing minority group chief executives, minority group managers and minority group directors of football. I am offended by FA committees being full of white, men in suits – no place for ordinary football fans of whatever background, race, creed or such. Even white man-in-the street fans get no look in.”
never appointing minority group chief executives – the applicants all may be shite
or minority group managers – the applicants may all be shite
FA committee being full of white men in suits – other applicants may have been shiteIn other words in order to fulfil your left wing agenda you are asking them to positively discriminate in the minorities favour – that my friend is exactly what you wrote (and meant) and it is plain to see that you were not attacking the Kick It Out organisation, you have said this to explain yourself out of it.
Knee-Jerk predjudice? – calm down sir, you are a man of education, however it does catch in the throat when someone questions a left wing bias and doesn’t fall into line with much weeping and wailing – doesn’t it?
If there are any high horses around here they are all grazing in your back garden.
My political views are far left. Like it or lump it they are.I loathe racism, discrimination, anything that deems anyone else inferior or shouldn’t be given a chance.
But – I do not think Whelan is a racist. I do not see anything in his comments other than being naive in the current climate.
Yes – he should have at worst consulted Latics PR people, at best kept quiet.
What he said may be deemed by some to be offensive, but I really fail to see a huge issue.
He has not called people “chinks”, but said that many people (and I know he said all, but cut him some slack) have used the expression. And that is true. “Fancy a chinky for tea?” is well known. Acceptable? I don’t know. I haven’t asked anyone Chinese, but I suspect there are bigger insults.
“Jews like money” he said, but then added which is pushed to one side “as do we all”. Has he portrayed them all as Shylock, and suggested they should be deported to camps? No. He has (probably unwisely) said they like money – like the rest of us – not least Dave Whelan.
Yes – he should have stayed schtum (am I allowed to say that?). He’s not done us any favours. But it’s a storm in a teacup by the perennially offended.
I am hugely offended by chairmen never appointing minority group chief executives, minority group managers and minority group directors of football. I am offended by FA committees being full of white, men in suits – no place for ordinary football fans of whatever background, race, creed or such. Even white man-in-the street fans get no look in. That surely is discriminatory.
I am offended that David Gold can pontificate when he made his fortune in porn (no problem with that per se, but now to come across as holier than thou is laughable).
I am offended that an MP who has a history of creepy texting to a junior member of staff now is demanding that the FA take action.
I am offended that people who espouse loudly the freedom of speech, and condemn journalists hacking private messages, are now on a witchhunt over people saying what they think, gleaned from private messages between friends.
I do not condone Dave Whelan’s comments. He would have been better off keeping quiet. But it is not a hanging offence.
Today’s news is tomorrows chip wrappers, as my Granny used to say.
Mind you – I wouldn’t like to tell you what else she used to say. :ohmy:
That is surely, in my opinion bollox.
Your post was standing up well for a self confessed lefty, however to be hugely offended because of the situations you stated beggers belief. That is straight out of Kick It Outs doctrine of positive discrimination. I’ve heard it all before from your Sol Campbells (I never made it because I’m black) – no mate you never mate it because you where shite. It doesn’t follow that organisations have to employ minorities – just for the sake of diversity – these people are in business and as such need to be the best at what they do (in other cases they have a responsibility to shareholders as well). I think it’s totally irresponsible to act as you said there and it’s this way of thinking that also fans the flames of racism – ooh look at this/that company must be racist as they have no ethnics on the board – utter bollox.
Another thing that has been bothering me is why are the blacks of this nation, and those across the pond, so au fait with calling each other Nig*** yet if someone else says the word all hell breaks loose. Are there two meanings to the word, one of which I’m unaware of?
Yep, I heard him last night.
The Daily Mail of all rags. He’s the one who got my back up and made me think fck em this is the way we like it.
Exactly. I was mulling over my position while driving home but Lawton’s superior attitude (ironic, I know ;)) clinched it for me. Four things spring to mind, for me:
1) It isn’t Wigan/Whelan’s job to cure all football’s ills. Why should Wigan cut its nose off to spite its face?
2) The FA could have suspended Mackay pending their enquiry, but they didn’t. He is therefore free to work in the game.
3) Premier League boss, Richard Scudamore, has allegedly committed similar offences recently. Where is hid wirch hunt?
4) I bet that plenty Championship and Premier League chairmen are thanki g Whelan for having the balls to do this as it will make it easier for them to appoint mackay in the future, should the need arise.[/quote]
I read that Greg Dyke, at the time, declared that private texts/correspondence were of no business to the FA and that ended that. He has set a very dangerous/welcoming precedent with that ruling and the FA must take that into its consideration when dealing with Malkay
I’ve read some of their work and, to be honest, have found them to be a sickly group who, in my opinion, have started to miss the reason they were formed. They hold no balanced views and see everything as an affront to their very being – positive discrimination at its worst with this bunch.
I agree that we need a body representing diversity within the game but some of their commentators can be very aggressive at even the smallest slight. Am I bothered about what they have to say about the appointment? Is Mr Whelan and his executives bothered? Do the majority of Wigan fans* think they are bothered? Is the uncle of the lady who cleans the bogs best friends nephew bothered – I think not.
*not scientifically proven by poll or otherwise.
