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See my earlier post about several football leagues that play the same rules.
They also play them in Baseball, Basketball, Rugby Union, Hockey, American Football, Gaelic Games and Ice Hockey which are all played around the globe.
Egg,
This isn’t an anti-RL debate for me; it’s an anti-RL Play-Off debate.
As much as I admire you for standing your ground on the Play-Offs, for starters, your examples in football don’t all stand up to scrutiny:
The Belgium Pro-League is similar to the SPL where after all the teams have played each other, they have a league split between top half and bottom half. Each team then plays each other twice in their mini-leagues. It’s not a knock-out tournament.
The Liga MX (Mexico) is similar to the Euros or World Cup, in that teams are split into groups and the top teams go into the knock out phase culminating with a final. The bottom teams from each group play a knock out tournament to avoid relegation.
In Argentina they play two separate league tournaments per season and the two winners of each tournament play off to crown one national winner.
If Super League adopted any of these three formats it would be a lot fairer that the one they currently have in place.
You mentioned the Copa Libertadores – but this is a cup competition (hence the name Copa), so yes, it is a knock-out tournament.
Also, the Champions League is a supplementary/additional competition – not a domestic championship. It’s akin to having the best British, Aussie, French and New Zealand club sides all playing in a competition that ran alongside Super League.
Yes, the MLS and A League have play-offs more akin to Super League, but they are both closed-membership franchise based leagues who are trying to build up coverage and expose against more popular other sports in their countries – also similar to Super League.
‘Don’t forget of course that you can be crowned Champions of Europe without ever being the Champions of your own Country.’ Yes, like at international level you can be crowned World Champions without ever being European Champions. They’re different competitions; we’re discussing the merits of being crowned national champions by a system which declares the events of a full season virtually meaningless.
The All Ireland Football (Gaelic) is a knock-out competition, and as for the other sports you’ve mentioned, they’re either Americanised and/or dragging their seasons out for a Grand Final payday.
Whichever way you dress it up, having a league where all teams play each other home and away and then deciding the over-all winner of a full season’s consistency with a single game, is grossly unfair.
I dont like the playoffs, but in the same way you can finish 6th and be promoted about 3rd or finish 4th and win a competition called the CHAMPIONS league, we all know the rules.
The rl playoffs would be far better if the format was different and most rlfans will agree with you. It isnt the only sport to have such a system though and even football has the same system in certain leagues (even if they are shite)
The main reason I posted on here in the first place wasnt to do with the playoffs but to quash the myth that Latics get bigger crowds than the rugby. Yes they may get a larger attendance but when you take away the visiting support both clubs average the same number. Ive posted numerous times on the rugby boards to quash the myths that there are 5000 away fans every week and il do the same in this situation.
Il say it again though, rl is on its arse. Even i can admit that.
souper leagueAmongst all the other tedious stuff, do you not realise how childish calling it souper league makes you look?
Why not go the whole hog and go back to calling it thugby.
Dear, oh dear. You’re as bad most of their lot ;)
Like the Egg admits, RL is on it’s way out albeit very slowly but it will become semi-pro in under 15yrs. Now surely if 2 teams from different sports are half filling their ground every other week with home supporters then that in my book has to be good for revenue. Who has their name on the deeds to the ground though ? The club WAFC or Dave Whelan ? Either way, due to DW’s avid interest in the club WAFC it has to be a sure fire winner for WAFC revenue wise because like it or not at this present juncture we are still one of the poorest supported teams in the top flight ! We need that extra revenue especially as they ( The Warriors )aint gonna be around for ever !
I will repeat a prediction I made a month or so ago.
Within ten years Wigan Warriors will have seen which way the wind is blowing with regards to rugby league, and as they are one of the most business savvy RL teams they will either already have, or be in the process of, changing to Rugby Union, where the money and kudos will be (in fact already is).
comparing souper league to any football league is akin to comparing a bugatti to a horse and trap…………finish top your champions, finish bottom your down……….end of debate..no extra lives, no picking a team who you want to play, no finish 8th out of just 14 teams FFS and still get in with a chance of winning THE WHOLE FRIGGIN THING…….it’s a joke egg mon, no disrespect to yourself. But trying to justify rugger leagues horrendous play off system is quite embarrassing.Just out of curiosity, what happens to the team in the league below souper league that won their grand final??????
In our championship, they would have cracked the champers open and got a £90m windfall in the prem……what happens in rugger league?????????
Sir Dave, you have a massive chip on your shoulders about rugby league & you really should see someone about it. Why on earth are you getting so wound up by a sport you claim to care so little about?? That is what is embarassing about this thread
For what it’s worth it, I feel it does de-value the league by having so many teams out of a small league who are able to qualify for the play offs but as I’ve said the whole point of a league is to rank sides in order of merit. A truly fair system would reward the best teams & punish the weaker ones in the 3 divisions of the football league that happens by & large but you still have virtually the same scenario from 3rd to 6th meaning a team can finish way clear of the 19 teams below them but lose out on promotion to a team who came 6th. teh only rewards they get for coming 3rd are playign teh 2nd leg at home & playing the lowest placed side
It isn’t a fair system – but that doesn’t mean I can’t see & agree with the benefits it brings
Rugby league is a sport I can take or leave – some times I enjoy it & sometimes I don’t. I don’t like Wigan RL for historical reasons but i don’t feel the need to spout venom at them every 5 minutes nor do I let it blind me so much that i start spouting hypocritical nonsenseOf course it’s totally different. In football if you win the league or come second, you don’t go into a play-off system – simple as that.In Rugby League it doesn’t matter how well you do during the season, you still have to play a knock-out game. You could go a full season without even conceding a point, and yet have an off day and end up potless.
Football’s play-offs are an incentive for the teams who did not win the league or finish runners up; Rugby League’s play-offs decide the whole outcome of a season for an entire league.
You’re splitting hairs Standish.
My own personal opinion is that the team who finishes top should be crowned champions end of story, so in that way I do think the RL play offs are wrong/stupid
However I do feel it’s hypocritical of football supporters to completely slate the system they have when we have something pretty similar ourselves & most people I know think that they’re a great idea.
As I’ve said to SDW – a league ranks teams in order of merit & a fair league will reward the good sides accordingly. As stats show more often than not in football the team who finished 3rd (or 4th) in the football league’s divisions misses out on promotion to teams who over the course of a season proved themselves to be inferior – it’s not a fair system whether it’s done for 3rd or 1st place
I know why they were introduced in football – it was to keep the season alive for most of the teams & to keep their attendances from tailing off. Sorry but they were introduced in rugby league for exactly the same reason & to try & prevent a monopolising of the top honour by one club for long stretches of time.
How many people moan in football that you can pick the league champions from 2 clubs before the season starts? Or how many latics fans used to slag rugby league off when Wigan dominated by asking “what’s the point in a sport where 1 team is so dominant?”
The RL authorities tried to address is with the play offs & they tried to address the issue of 1 club being so dominant by using it’s wealth to hoover up all the best talent by introducing the salary cap. Sometimes i wish the football authorities would try to be bold to solve similar issues in our game
Don’t get me wrong they make horrendous mistakes – the doing a way of relegation is a massive mistake as it’s killing the game at a lower level by removing the incentive to reach the top but I do understand the reasoning behind it coz the club’s were struggling to set up to the pro game & then stay up & some club’s were biting off more than they could chew money wise. I think they chose the wrong way of addressing it though
Just like they made mistakes allowing the clubs to go straight into the top flight to try & spread the game beyond the M62 corridor. New clubs built on sand will always crumble & they just don’t learn their lesson as they keep doing it Gateshead, Paris, Crusaders whilst club’s in towns that have been playing the sport for over 100 years like Leigh, Featherstone & co can just go swing.I try not to let my intense dislike for Wigan RL cloud all my views of the sport
considering that many big hitters on here profess to hate the game you lot dont half have poor/pathetic way of showing it if your not interested why the long thread when they have lost would the thread have been started if they were in the final and would you then start the thread if they lost that and kept stum should they have won if you not bothered why post in the first placed obsessed i think
You’re splitting hairs Standish.
My own personal opinion is that the team who finishes top should be crowned champions end of story, so in that way I do think the RL play offs are wrong/stupid
However I do feel it’s hypocritical of football supporters to completely slate the system they have when we have something pretty similar ourselves & most people I know think that they’re a great idea.
As I’ve said to SDW – a league ranks teams in order of merit & a fair league will reward the good sides accordingly. As stats show more often than not in football the team who finished 3rd (or 4th) in the football league’s divisions misses out on promotion to teams who over the course of a season proved themselves to be inferior – it’s not a fair system whether it’s done for 3rd or 1st place
I know why they were introduced in football – it was to keep the season alive for most of the teams & to keep their attendances from tailing off. Sorry but they were introduced in rugby league for exactly the same reason & to try & prevent a monopolising of the top honour by one club for long stretches of time.
How many people moan in football that you can pick the league champions from 2 clubs before the season starts? Or how many latics fans used to slag rugby league off when Wigan dominated by asking “what’s the point in a sport where 1 team is so dominant?”
The RL authorities tried to address is with the play offs & they tried to address the issue of 1 club being so dominant by using it’s wealth to hoover up all the best talent by introducing the salary cap. Sometimes i wish the football authorities would try to be bold to solve similar issues in our game
Don’t get me wrong they make horrendous mistakes – the doing a way of relegation is a massive mistake as it’s killing the game at a lower level by removing the incentive to reach the top but I do understand the reasoning behind it coz the club’s were struggling to set up to the pro game & then stay up & some club’s were biting off more than they could chew money wise. I think they chose the wrong way of addressing it though
Just like they made mistakes allowing the clubs to go straight into the top flight to try & spread the game beyond the M62 corridor. New clubs built on sand will always crumble & they just don’t learn their lesson as they keep doing it Gateshead, Paris, Crusaders whilst club’s in towns that have been playing the sport for over 100 years like Leigh, Featherstone & co can just go swing.I try not to let my intense dislike for Wigan RL cloud all my views of the sport
Like f@ck I’m splitting hairs!
Plays offs in British association football do not crown national champions: that is a simple fact.
Play offs in British Rugby League do crown national champions – and that is a the huge difference.
The fairest way of deciding who are the champions is by having every team play each other home and away, award points for wins and draws, and the team who gets the most points wins the trophy; that is what we do in this country’s football leagues.
If you then tag a knock out tournament onto the end of that, it become unfair as the outcome of a season suddenly rests on one game not the twenty or thirty that have gone before it.
Yes, I understand perfectly well why play-offs were introduced into British football, however, teams still have a way of avoiding the play-offs: play sufficiently well over the course of a season to finish in first or second. Clubs then cannot bemoan the fact that they have to enter the play-offs as they had their chance of acquiring enough points to avoid them but failed. In Rugby League they have no such opportunity, and no matter if you win the league, you’re still forced into winner-takes-all games.
You said:
‘How many people moan in football that you can pick the league champions from 2 clubs before the season starts? Or how many latics fans used to slag rugby league off when Wigan dominated by asking “what’s the point in a sport where 1 team is so dominant?”’Correct – but at least it is a fair contest in football and was a fair contest in Rugby League. Rugby League put salary caps in place to even things out and then the play-offs were thrown in as an end of season money-spinner.
And for the record, I don’t have a dislike for Wigan RL and I don’t dislike RL as a sport – in fact, I played the sport into my early twenties.
I do however, find their play-off system unfair in that the team who is consistently the best over the course of the season has a good chance of not being crowned champions.
You’re splitting hairs Standish.
My own personal opinion is that the team who finishes top should be crowned champions end of story, so in that way I do think the RL play offs are wrong/stupid
However I do feel it’s hypocritical of football supporters to completely slate the system they have when we have something pretty similar ourselves & most people I know think that they’re a great idea.
As I’ve said to SDW – a league ranks teams in order of merit & a fair league will reward the good sides accordingly. As stats show more often than not in football the team who finished 3rd (or 4th) in the football league’s divisions misses out on promotion to teams who over the course of a season proved themselves to be inferior – it’s not a fair system whether it’s done for 3rd or 1st place
I know why they were introduced in football – it was to keep the season alive for most of the teams & to keep their attendances from tailing off. Sorry but they were introduced in rugby league for exactly the same reason & to try & prevent a monopolising of the top honour by one club for long stretches of time.
How many people moan in football that you can pick the league champions from 2 clubs before the season starts? Or how many latics fans used to slag rugby league off when Wigan dominated by asking “what’s the point in a sport where 1 team is so dominant?”
The RL authorities tried to address is with the play offs & they tried to address the issue of 1 club being so dominant by using it’s wealth to hoover up all the best talent by introducing the salary cap. Sometimes i wish the football authorities would try to be bold to solve similar issues in our game
Don’t get me wrong they make horrendous mistakes – the doing a way of relegation is a massive mistake as it’s killing the game at a lower level by removing the incentive to reach the top but I do understand the reasoning behind it coz the club’s were struggling to set up to the pro game & then stay up & some club’s were biting off more than they could chew money wise. I think they chose the wrong way of addressing it though
Just like they made mistakes allowing the clubs to go straight into the top flight to try & spread the game beyond the M62 corridor. New clubs built on sand will always crumble & they just don’t learn their lesson as they keep doing it Gateshead, Paris, Crusaders whilst club’s in towns that have been playing the sport for over 100 years like Leigh, Featherstone & co can just go swing.I try not to let my intense dislike for Wigan RL cloud all my views of the sport
Like f@ck I’m splitting hairs!
Plays offs in British association football do not crown national champions: that is a simple fact.
Play offs in British Rugby League do crown national champions – and that is a the huge difference.
The fairest way of deciding who are the champions is by having every team play each other home and away, award points for wins and draws, and the team who gets the most points wins the trophy; that is what we do in this country’s football leagues.
If you then tag a knock out tournament onto the end of that, it become unfair as the outcome of a season suddenly rests on one game not the twenty or thirty that have gone before it.
Yes, I understand perfectly well why play-offs were introduced into British football, however, teams still have a way of avoiding the play-offs: play sufficiently well over the course of a season to finish in first or second. Clubs then cannot bemoan the fact that they have to enter the play-offs as they had their chance of acquiring enough points to avoid them but failed. In Rugby League they have no such opportunity, and no matter if you win the league, you’re still forced into winner-takes-all games.
You said:
‘How many people moan in football that you can pick the league champions from 2 clubs before the season starts? Or how many latics fans used to slag rugby league off when Wigan dominated by asking “what’s the point in a sport where 1 team is so dominant?”’Correct – but at least it is a fair contest in football and was a fair contest in Rugby League. Rugby League put salary caps in place to even things out and then the play-offs were thrown in as an end of season money-spinner.
And for the record, I don’t have a dislike for Wigan RL and I don’t dislike RL as a sport – in fact, I played the sport into my early twenties.
I do however, find their play-off system unfair in that the team who is consistently the best over the course of the season has a good chance of not being crowned champions.
…if your not interested why the long thread when they have lost would the thread have been started if they were in the final…
A classic example of why posts need to be in the right forum.
The main forum is where I would expect most readers of this group to go, and therefore needs to be kept to topic. If you don’t like (or have an opinion about) other sports, or don’t travel away, or are particularly intersted in music, etc etc, then you don’t need to read the other fora. If you do, then you can’t really complain if others do post in them.
…if your not interested why the long thread when they have lost would the thread have been started if they were in the final…
A classic example of why posts need to be in the right forum.
The main forum is where I would expect most readers of this group to go, and therefore needs to be kept to topic. If you don’t like (or have an opinion about) other sports, or don’t travel away, or are particularly intersted in music, etc etc, then you don’t need to read the other fora. If you do, then you can’t really complain if others do post in them.
christ, their after giving up all hope over on rlfans.communist…………just one snippet!!!!!!!!!
hula89
Free-scoring winger
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 1405
Location: Newton-le-Willows
I posted this on facebook on Saturday after the Saints vs Wire game and I got quite a response:
Can see why people aren’t putting money into RL anymore,. The standard of refereeing is abysmal, the quality has dropped since the franchises came in when they were supposed to make it better. Teams are going into administration then they’re not being punished properly so there’s no incentive to run a club properly. And above all; There’s a horrific trend in rewarding mediocrity. Twice in a row fifth place are to be in the grand final. 8th place were in the playoffs when they’ve lost more games than they’ve won.For 5th place to win the league they should have to beat every single team above them but they dont. They should now have to play the loser of today’s game before they can reach the final.
I have a feeling Wigan may end up moving to Union not through choice but being forced. Theres no way they can sustain a club of that size if the game becomes part time and teams like Warrington will probably follow suit. Its not going to be soon but if the League carries on how it is at the moment it will happen. A team like Wigan or Warrington will probably be allowed immediately into the highest division as the support we have is much bigger than any other team and I cant see the most loyal fans in the league dropping off if we moved to Union. I dont want it to happen, obviously, but I dont think theres going to be any other way soon. Unless we can get those other 9 teams that can spend to the cap to form a breakaway league.
ooh dear
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