Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
The report i read on my phone from Sky’s website (presumably from an unbiased reporter) however wasn’t anywhere near as complimentary about Latics
Sorry that this response seems a bit leaning towards the light side, but to say we didn’t create anything, then I’m sure you didn’t go to the game.Besides creating by far the best goal of the game, did I not see Moses creating at least 2 or 3 chances?
Did Hugo not come on and look the most dangerous player on the field going forward?
Did Di Santo not make a couple of surging runs in the first half that led to fizzled out efforts?My Bolton supporter mate who went to the game picked out 3 wanderers players who he reckoned “did owt” The rest he said looked shyte.
He also said he felt that we [latics] would score every time we went on the attack.
It just goes to show how fans see games differently, a bit like when winning 1-0 the last 5 minutes seem like an hour on the other hand if you’re losing 1-0 seems over in 30 seconds. In both cases that 5 mins is exactly the same.My view on the game was that we were very, very poor up to the Momo equaliser, then we suddenly looked like we would go on and win the game. Bolton were gifted their goals and didn’t have to work hard for them.
The goal 10 secs from half time totally changed the direction of the game. If Gohouri had put the ball into row Z, thus allowing the ref to blow the half time whistle, we may have seen a different result. :scared-eek:I think its obvious to say that Latics did create some chances but in reality they never caused Bolton’s keeper to work as hard as Al Habsi had to at times nor were they as glaringly obvious as a free header from 2 yards out that they put wide
In fact the examples you highlighted just show that Di Santo’s endeavours fizzled out, Rodallega looked dangerous (but didn’t score or seriously test the keeper) & Moses runs couldn’t be finished offThe worrying thing for me from Saturday was not the schoolboy errors made by some of our players which lead to all 3 goals, but the thought processes of a manager who felt that it would be better to play a second rate centre half (who missed all of pre-season , looked hopelessly off the pace in his comeback against Tottenham & who was suspended in our only game since then) at left back and leave his 2 specialist left backs either on the bench or out of the squad altogether
He can bang on that Figueroa was fatigued or jet lagged after his international games for Honduras but I doubt that the 45 mins of extra kip he got during that 1st half would have made much of a difference
Quite why he dropped Van Aanholt altogether is beyond me – & according to the football first commentator on Sky beyond Van Aanholt too.People can debate Bobby’s tactics, formations & style of play till they’re blue in the face, but such a glaringly bad judgement call can’t be denied or glossed over.
Everyone makes mistakes though & I hope that its one Bobby acknowledges & learns from just as I hope that examples in recent games of players getting caught in possession in dangerous territory highlights to him that there are times when giving it a good old hoof is a better option than trying to play it out from the back – although I think one is more likely than the otherEDIT – & one other thing. I’ve never thought that Caldwell deserves the flak he gets from some Latics supporters but in the last couple of games his lack of mobility has been horribly exposed. All Eagles needed to do for that 3rd goal on Saturday was stop & turn onto his other foot & Caldwell was incapable of either stopping or changing direction. Same the other week against Villa. It shouldn’t be that easy to turn a premier league defender
I mentioned Boselli to show that (regardless of the fact that he turned out to be a bit of a flop) that Whelan will invest in the team just as much as a club like West Brom invested in Long this summer
I also picked on West Brom as the original poster held them up as an example of “having a go” when in fact they’re actually an example of how to not risk the long term financial future of the clubWhilst you mention Boselli though – WTF was Bobby thinking???? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
It actually wasn’t intended as a swipe at Martinez – I was talking about West Brom not Latics & was trying to say that Jeremy Peace could see somet that showed him Di Matteo wouldn’t keep them up & rather than show loyalty & stick with him regardless as a gesture for getting them up in the first place he shipped him out for someone that he felt could keep em up
Any coincidence you see in that to the situation at Latics last season is in your mind not mine!!! ;)
As you’ve pointed out the Whelan/Martinez situation is different & I’ve stated in the past that Whelan can obviously see something in Bobby that I can’t coz he’s not exactly been shy in pulling the trigger on managers before
However as I’m someone with previous in slating Bobby I’ll let you off with this one slip up ;)
1 are you impressed with what bob is achieving on the field
2 if not what do you think is going wrong
3 if yes what is he doing right in your choice
4 bob is getting the nickname of bottom three bob,is this a fair point or not justified5 bob has a three year plan do you feel he is on track or slightly of target
6 was he right man for the job or just a cheap option
7 do you think he will keep us up this season or is it a bridge too far this yearhonest answers
I’m a darksider but I’ll answer the questions anyway:
1) From the end of January onwards last season I could start to see genuine signs of progress & the plus points in what Bobby was trying to put in place. If you average our points per game total from that period over the course of a full season of 38 games that it gives you somet like 53 points & a top half finish. Early days this season but things seem to have gone backwards so far – I’m not a fan of Alcaraz as i feel he plays like a primary school footballer & always gets sucked towards the ball so I’m not sure that his return will see much improvement. For a team low on goals however we were always going to miss the input of Rodallega even if he isn’t a left winger in the memory of man. personally i much preferred the football played by under Bruce prior to his team being sold out from under him in January 2009
2) I think what is going wrong, & has been since Bobby joined, is his inflexibility & determination to force players into his system & way of playing instead of adapting his system to the players he has. More often than not Latics look lethargic, sloppy and devoid of passion & fight. On the handful of occasions where the system clicks it looks pretty good but over 80 odd league games he’s been in charge (IMO) we are literally talking about less than a quarter reaching that level so I’m inclined to believe that they are exceptions to the rule
3) n/a
4) His nickname from a handful of people isn’t justified. In his 1st season in charge Latics were never in the bottom 3. In his 2nd season in charge they spent 68% of the season in the bottom 3 & this season so far its been 14% of the time in the bottom 3. If my maths are right during his reign the club has spent a total of 27% of the time in the bottom 3 & 73% out of it
5) By the end of last season i thought he was on track although I always find it amusing that the length of his plan gets extended every year. Initially it was 3 transfer windows, then it was 2 seasons & now its 3!! That said I don’t really know where his plan aims to have the club at the end of these 3 years. if its surving & becoming self sufficient then he’s on target so far but if the plan is to have latics challenging the top half of the table then he’s way off target
6) I don’t feel that he was the right man for the job but I don’t feel that he was the cheap option either. Bobby was in demand during that close season but I said at the time that if he was anyone other than somebody who used to play for Latics then Whelan would not have gambled on taking on someone with barely 2 & a bit years lower league managerial experience. I also think that if Bobby was anyone other than Bobby (& everything that comes with that) then he would be getting far more grief from the crowd than he does & I think Whelan would have bombed him out. Back to being a cheap option to bring him & his team to Latics cost the best part of £4mill to £5mill – there would have been far cheaper options out there at the time
7) I genuinely don’t know. For the last 2 seasons I’ve said he wouldn’t do it & he has so at the moment I think its far too early to tell1. “You get us promoted Paul Jewell and you can have the 25m bonus for getting there to spend on new players and i will double it” Bull, If Jewell had 50m to spend he would have spent it. Not 6m. Now i do understand that spending 50m would have been impossible at that early stage, But he shouldn’t say it if he doesn’t mean it, Just to get fans through the turnstiles.2. “I can categorically say that there will be no players moving in this transfer window” Then what happened, Palacios and Heskey walked.
3. “In 3 years i want us to be challenging for Europe” Then when he realised it’s much easier and financially rewarding to survive every year just he now says “Well we just want to avoid relegation really” Yeah, really going to get the fans pouring in that one Dave.
1 – Dave Whelan backed Paul Jewell with big money to make transfer bids & salary offers for Michael Owen & Scott Parker. Both bids were accepted but knocked back by the players who preferred to go elsewhere. Now you can argue whether these were publicity stunts on Whelan’s behalf or not but the fact of the matter is that official bids were put in. You even acknowledge yourself that it is unlikely that the club could have spent big that summer no matter what they tried what with the club being “certs to go down”. If I recall correctly Paul Jewell himself said that the club tried everything it could to get star signings like the above but that they just couldn’t spend it. The subsequent “disappearance” of this fabled “war chest” is more likely to do with the financial realities of Wigan Athletic being in the top flight than it has to do with a certain chairman taking the pish out of the fans & pocketing the dough
2 – I don’t recall Whelan saying that about players being sold in the transfer window. not saying it didn’t happen just that that isn’t how i recall events. What I can recall is Steve Bruce saying that the club would be mad to sell its star players in the January transfer window when challenging for Europe & that he would rather Heskey leave for nowt in the summer having helped Latic achieve that position than cashing in on him now & weakening the squad. I then recall that the next day Whelan very publicly slapped his manager down & stated that all our players were available if the club’s valuation was met & that if Heskey indicated that he wouldn’t sign a new deal in the summer then he would be sold as latics could not risk losing him for nothing. Now I will argue till my dying day that the club could & should have held on to its players until the end of the season & still feel what happened in January 2009 was a real kick in the guts but I don’t remember Whelan ever saying in the run up to that month that no-one would be sold in teh transfer window
3 – Whelan did state about us challenging for Europe but I’m pretty certain that when he said it he was expecting 25,000 crowds every week all paying the £35+ that the club tried to charge in its 2nd season up. Not to mention the increased advertising & corporate revenue that would come with those crowds. I’m sure that the stated change in aim by January 2009 to “staying up” has more to do (as with my point 1 above) the financial realities of Latics being in the top flighth whilst seeing crowds slip season upon season, ticket prices remaining pretty static & advertising & corporate revenue nowhere near what the club was anticipating. Now he could splash money out hand over fist to try & achieve that original aim but it would be risking the long term future of Wigan Athletic
Don’t get me wrong its depressing knowing that every season Latics remain in this division is more than likely to be a long hard slog to avoid the drop but a) I don’t want to see my team fail at anything so if this is what is needed to avoid that failure then that’s the way it is & b) I would rather have a struggling Wigan Athletic to support than no Wigan Athletic at all
You use an example in your post of West Brom progressing but they are notoriously cautious with their cash & their chairman has been slated for it as they’ve bobbed up & down from premier league to championship for the last 8 or 9 years. They did relatively well last year coz that chairman bit the bullet when he didn’t think Di Matteo had what it took to keep the club up & had the perfect man lined up as a replacement. They made a big money signing this summer but the fee involved was only marginally more than Whelan has authorised for Boselli as little as a year or so ago
Just out of interest as well, as I’m not that up on Wigan Warriors, but how did Dave Whelan screw them in relation to Central Park as you intimate on the thread you posted on Monday at 11pm?
No more to sayMy initial reaction on seeing it in real time on the telly was no foul & it just looked like a side to side contact which there’s nowt wrong with only 1 player was more lightweight than the other.
From the camera angle behind the goal & in slow motion it looks like a foul – I can understand why the ref didn’t give it though given my initial reactionI also thought on first viewing that Rodwell deserved to go for Everton coz (regardless of the fact he won the ball) it looked from the main camera angle that he jumps in, with both feet off the floor & with studs up on his leading foot. On the replays it looked a bit different
I have to say I was almost embarrassed for Caldwell in his attempts at defending Villa’s first goal on Saturday
IMO the potential signing of Diouf & the appearance of Tyson at the DW stadium against the conviction of Marlon King are completely different scenarios
Marlon King was convicted of a crime whilst a contracted Wigan Athletic player. His actions brought the club into disrepute and his conviction & subsequent sentence meant he was unable to fulfill his contract. The club were spot on to tear up his contract
Mike Tyson was convicted of a crime almost 20 years ago, served his sentence & paid the debt to society that the US legal system deemed he should pay.
Diouf has spat at Celtic fans & Arjan De Zeeuw and served his punishment for both. i know that he was alleged to have been handy with his fists against a female but can’t remember what happened in terms of a charge/conviction/acquittal etc.. – whatever happened he either served his punishment or never faced charges.
I always thought that the idea of criminal justice (or for any punishment any FA may have given him for offences on the football field) was punishment, for the debt to society to be repaid & then the chance of a clean start being given to that person.In my opinion there is no moral high ground for anybody to adopt – the only question should be whether he is good enough to improve Latics squad & on that question I haven’t got a clue
Whooooaaaaa Lancy, Lancy
Lancy, Lancy, Lancy, Lancy
Lancashire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance:
Wish my old man had lived to see it, but I had a celebratory drink for him last neet
i believe that that is because the council own Robin Park Arena & it is they who set the admission charge.
Latics have to pay to use the venue & receive none of the gate money
He’ll argue that he did use it as an experiment though – we all know he sees that there’s only 1 formation to play football with so there would be little benefit to playing a 4-4-2 or whatever if he’s never gonna use it
His experiment would be to see how his fringe players compared to those he’s used so far & with the new players it was an experiment to see whether they were ready to start league games
I’m guessing that he got his answers – when Paul Jewell did it in our maiden top flight season he got his answers too although somewhat different ones!!!
As I said I understand the reasoning behind him (& others) doing it but I’ll never agree with it & I’m strictly “old school” in thinking that if a player can’t take a Saturday/Tuesday/Saturday schedule at this stage in the season then they shouldn’t be a professional athlete – Blimey I ref 2 games every weekend, its well known we cover more ground than players & I’m still fit as a butchers dog on Monday morning!!! ;)
I’m also a bit old school in thinking that if a manager is that petrified of not having all his first choice XI avilable to him that he plays a scratch side in the cup to avoid knocks/suspensions than he clearly doesn’t believe that his squad is up to the jobWhat I can’t figure out though from just looking at the line up & having not gone or heard any of it on TV/radio was who we had playing at the back & who played where – the only defenders I can see on the team list are Figueroa, Van Aanholt & Lopez. As the starting line up contaiend 2 left back, only 1 centre half & no right backs I wasn’t surprised when i saw the result
Many will no doubt say that they aint bothered and we can concentrate on the league now etc, but that game was a chance for the fringe players to step up to the plate and to be quite honest, they didn’t !! Their keeper had nothing to do for large parts of that game ! Good to know that when we get injuries we have some real quality waiting in the wings !! :|I’d agree & disagree with that filmoss
I’d agree coz you’re right that it is a chance for the fringe players to stake a claim for the 1st team & many of them didn’t do that
I’d disagree with the last sentence that seems to indicate that you think that coz they lost & it wasn’t a great performance that is proof that Latics “back up” players aren’t good enough – for a start 3 guys started tonight who haven’t even been in town for 2 weeks & are getting used to new tactics, a new manager & new team mates, and they haven’t played a game for us before. They were bound to be rusty. As for the team as a whole it showed somet like 8 changes from the one that played on Saturday. I’d be pretty confident that every single one of those players could be counted on to perform & perform relatively well if they are called upon to start a league game in the event of injuries & suspensions. However you will only ever be looking at a Latics having to ask 1 or 2 of em to step in. If you had to ask 8 to step then it would disrupt any team (outside of some of the big uns).Personally I’m disappointed Latics are out. I’m also disappointed that our manager treats the tournament as some sort of inconvenience. I’ll also be disappointed when he does the same in the FA Cup. I understand why he does it but I still find it disappointing
