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I’d like to see a strong side put out as I want Latics to get as far in it as possible but I don’t buy into it being a kick in the confidence knackers if a scratch side gets knocked out.
How would it effect the confidence of Di Santo, Caldwell, McCarthy, McArthur etc.. if a side they have no involvement with gets beat as they’ve had no input in it?i think though that we’ll see a stronger side than has been out for the previous 2 rounds but purely due to the fact that we have some players coming back from injury who Bobby mentioned last week were looking at this game as comeback targets such as Alcaraz & the Japanese fella. Plus we have other players who need a bit more match practice (Kone & Scharner) I expect a line up not far from:
1 – Robles
2 – Stam
3 – Mustoe
4 – Scharner
5 – Alcaraz
6 – Golobart
7 – Gomez
8 – Jones
9 – Kone
10 – Miyaichi (??)
11 – FyvieHe also missed out:Di Santo is 6’4” but can’t head
Al Habsi can’t kick for toffee
Beausejour hasn’t got the pace to take a man on
Kone’s second touch is quite often a header
If you shout ‘shoot’ Figueroa usually does….and I’m on the Lightside!
Money for all rope springs to mind. He must have written his scouting notes while matching Match Of The Day.
Apparently the one shown in the first link is only the first page coz the Daily Mail article mentions stuff that isn’t on the page shown of the report – which might also explain why his Paul Scharner bit cuts off mid sentence
Anyway it would appear that it does mention Di Santo doesn’t win many headers coz the Mail makes a point of saying that he won his first header of the day when Al Habsi went long for the first time despite what the report had saidFurther indication that a new career awaits me is that it states Scharner was ball watching last week against Soton which is exactly what I said ;)
I wonder how much that type of work pays?? :blink:
There is nowt that is written there that any Tom, Dick or Harry couldn’t write after watching Latics 3 or 4 times & the same goes for pretty much any team
Pretty much every Latics fan (even the most optimistic lightsiders) could have done that if askedIn fact he’s actually missed out a few things including Al Habsi’s habit of palming shots back into the danger zone & I think he’s been a bit harsh on McArthur’s defensive ability
I’m also sure that there are some Latics fans dismayed that he’s not mentioned Beausejour’s a bit of a chubber & did I read it right that one of our players (David Jones was it?) is 1000% fit – that’s some going that!!A twist to the thread.Would Pj,s title winning side have beaten the FRT winning side in which he played? Jewell,Newell,Methven, Walsh, Kelly,Langley and Lowe to name a few. What a side that was.
That was a fantastic side, with massive potential. Harry MacNally never got the recognition he deserved for assembling that side. If that team had stayed together for a couple of seasons, with maybe a couple of experienced signings, who knows? I feel it could have matched PJ’s far more expensive champions.[/quote]
Looking at the sides (& I didn’t see the 1985 one in action – 2 years before my time) on paper I would say that the 2003 side was better as they absolutely walked away with the title whereas the 1985 side never got promoted. I would also say that the 1985 side has more lower division journeymen in it than the 2003 one (Knowles, Methven, Cribley, Tunks (who I always thought was $h!te), Barrow & Bennett). That said, there are players in the FRT side who I would have over their 2003 counterparts: Walsh over Breckin, Lowe over Teale, Newell over Roberts, Kelly over Dinning
But if you’re talking about value for money paid out then the 1985 side wins hands downYou all seem to be forgetting that the majority of this team went on to finish tenth in the premierleague 3 years later.I like Caldwell but I cant believe people genuinly think he is better than Matt Jackson. Jacko would be fantastic in this team pushing up out a back 3 to go and play like Caldwell tries to do.
I’d have Bullard over any midfielder at the club.
Ellington over any forward just about.
And I would have Nicky Eaden over Ronnie Stam ;)
Matt Jackson was a great player for us but by the tme Latics got him (IMO) he was no longer good enough for regular 1st team top flight football & hence why he became a bit part player for us in his 3 seasons Latics were at this level. If we’d got him in the prime of his career I’d agree with you but we didn’t
Bullard I’d agree on but Ellington I’d disagree with – blew either very hot or very cold during his time with us & later went on to prove that he was not good enough for the top flightPutting aside the fact you are skewering off into our first Championship season not the Division 2 title winning season that the thread was originally intended for last year if you dig deep into that clear memory of yours you may remember he spent the first part of that season out injured?After that he was literally ever present in the side for the rest of the season.
I am sure you and your mates needed a scape goat just like people need their cats to kick nowadays considering we only won 2 of our last 10 games thus dropping out of the play off places and sealing another season of Division 1 / Championship football!
Why not go and ask the Ipswich fans how he did in the 171 games he played for them after he left us and see if they think he wasnt up to that level?
I think you’ll find that my initial response in this thread said “he struggled against anyone with pace at the 3rd level of the game & even more so when Latics got promoted.
I also never said that he wasn’t up to Championship level just that he got even more exposed by pacy players at that level. And at the end of the day in his 4 seasons at that level he never once played in a team that was good enough to qualify for the play offs – football is a team game & all that but the faults in his game would have contributed to that
The point was however that if he struggled to deal with pacy players at those levels he wouldn’t have had a cat in hells chance of being able to cope with the majority of top flight strikers when Caldwell (whilst far from being the world’s greatest defender) has proven his ability to hold his own at this level.
De Vos never got the opportunity to prove himself in the top flight coz no manager’s thought he was good enough to be given the chanceAnd there was no scapegoating of De Vos amongst me & my mates nor even comments that he was $h!te, just a consensus that if Latics did want to push on then he was the type of player that would have to move on. Just as 1 season later Jewell knew that as good as Eaden & Breckin had been for us (see I never scapegoated Eaden either) they weren’t up to top flight football & most fans acknowledged that too
I think your memory is a bit hazy Tylders for 1. Jason De Vos was immense for us and nothing short of it and 2. I am fairly certain it was De Vos who left on a Bosman for a better chance of promotion rather than Jewell letting him go.The only haziness going on is in your memory Salford
Jason De Vos was immense for the most part for Latics & he won me many a pretty penny on first goal scorer but he really struggled against anyone with an iota of pace & it started to show more than ever in the latter stages of Latics first season in the championship.
Yes he left on a Bosman but the club waited till relatively late in the day to offer him any deal & then withdrew that & only offered him a 1 year deal as he was starting to struggle in that season. It’s hardly the actions of a club fighting tooth & nail to keep someone. Ipswich offered him a 3 yr deal & that’s why he left
The feeling between me & my mates at the time was that he needed to move on & a quick search on the internet just found me a comment from a Latics fan on a Canadian football website after he’d just signed for Ipswich that mentions “his time had come with us I’m afraid” and that “lack of pace is a major problem” for him – so I wasn’t the only one!! ;) BTW the poster was named as “Batch” whose name rings a bell from on hereThe original poster was comparing the team that won the third tier against the team that was in the first tier twelve months ago – before it embarked on that epic run and was therefore rooted to the bottom of the league. So, let’s get three things clear.1, we are not being asked to compare it to the current team.
2, in fact, we aren’t being asked to compare it at all because…
3, JayT only dredged it up to plug the Supporters club function at Easter
I suggest that we all untwist our knickers
Sorry Griff but I can’t – I’ve gone commando today :woohoo:
He is an addict and will die as a result of it. Whether you want to sound clever with the imunosuppressant story of george best the fact of the matter is it was alcohol what lead him to that and ultimately the same will happen to gazza.Hopefully sooner rather than later and i say that for his own sake – his life has been a circus for far too long now –
He has tried rehab and unfortunately he doesnt have to will to stop drinking. unless he wants to stop this will kill him.
He was a very good footballer but his life has been a bloody shambles to be honest.
It’s not about trying to sound clever, but a lot of people think George Best died because his transplanted liver packed in coz he started to drink again & that isn’t true. I also acknowledged that if he hadn’t been an alcohlic then he wouldn’t have needed a transplant in the first place
And an alcoholic having the will to stop drinking is only the first step in attempting to get off it & isn’t the sole answer/cureCaldwell before De Vos or Jackson, in your dreams, Caldwell is one of the worst central defenders I have seen at wafc in recent times, De vos and Jackson are still pobably better than Caldwell.
Figueroa is just about better than his counterpart in that side, a young Leighton Baines but probably only in that debut season and never since, even old sicknote himself Steve McMillan would have given figs a run for his money.Jason De Vos looked out of his depth against the pacier strikers in the English games 3rd level & even more so when we got promoted & hence why Jewell let him go.
Also by the time that Latics signed him, there was a very good reason as to why Matt Jackson was signing for a 3rd tier side – because he was no longer good enough for the top flight
Gary Caldwell is far from perfect but is head & shoulders above those 2 as they were at that time
As for Figueroa – he no longer plays left back so I wasn’t comparing him to either Baines or McMillan. Incidentally I missed Baines off my list of shoe ins to the current side in place of Beausejour. Even as a wee bairn as he was thenSorry to be the one to point this out but is this not the Division 2 champions?I’m assuming that the original poster was referring to the level currently referred to as League 1 – I can’t remember if it was still div 2 at the time & when div 1 became the championship but it was the only league Jewell’s team won
Its difficult to say really
There are some positions where Latics current players are head & shoulders above players in the Div 1 side e.g. Alcrarz, Ramis, Figueroa & Caldwell over an ageing Matt Jackson & Jason de Vos. Or James McArthur over Tony Dinning or Shaun Maloney over Lee McCulloch
Then there are others such as Bullard & Filan who could genuinely stake a claim in this current team, and then there’s the likes of Ellington who although I suspect that he never really had “it” to make it at this level I would have liked to have seen his partnership with Roberts at this level.
You’ve got the fact that the Div 1 side got over 100 points whereas this team will struggle to get in the late 30’s but then the div 1 side were playing Stockport, Wycombe & brentford & were the moneybags of the division whereas this team is playing the likes of united, chelsea, city, arsenal, spurs etc.. & are like penniless hobo’s in comparisonI was going to put this in a thread of it’s own, but I think it fits in well in this one.The big question I would like to put forward, is……
WHY DO WE HAVE TO PLAY A ‘SET STYLE’?
I don’t quite get why any manager would be as rigid as Martinez is with the actual style of play they are trying to achieve. This has puzzled me since he came to us as manager.
Surely you need to be flexible to change, depending on your opposition and their individual strengths and weaknesses? I mean, you wouldn’t try and play a ‘high ball’ game against Stoke who are all 6 foot plus in height and known for a direct ‘up and at em’ style, would you?
And are you ever going to ‘pass’ Chelsea, etc off the park? Highly doubtful. The rigidness of our ‘style’ is, for me, our undoing. Not only is it predictable, but it is as if what you see is what you get….we don’t have a plan B. That has been evident from the start.
It is well documented that we are striving for something along the lines of what Barcelona do. The only problem being that we are nowhere near as blessed with talent as Barcelona. Obviously. Having seen them play in the flesh last March, I could see straight away the similarities between the styles….as ridiculous as that seems, comparing Wigan Athletic to Barcelona. The difference is they have the players to play such a controlling and flamboyant style. They have the phenomenon that is Messi, and he really IS a phenomenon. Never before have I seen a player run with the ball like he does. But his first goal (out of the 5 I saw him score that night!) came from a ball over the top, which he ran onto and chipped the keeper…
when was the last time we scored that type of goal? I can’t remember. We seem like we HAVE to try and do 20 passes before we can get near the goal. Quote an Everton fan I know, after the boxing day game at Goodison…
“You play some good football, but you over do the passing. A few times you could have had a shot at goal, but didn’t”.
The top and bottom of it is that I just don’t think we are especially good at playing this particular style. We have 2 major problems within our team:
1. We concede goals far too easily. AND 2. We don’t score enough goals.You don’t have to be a professor to put the two together and see that it isn’t a good combination at all. We are where we are for a reason. 2 reasons, as I have stated.
Now, where do I stand regarding our manager? Do I think he should be sacked? No, not at this time. Sacking him would not solve a thing at this time. We are stuck with the players we have got, and no way is it our ‘best squad yet’. That is a load of crap. We have some decent individuals, but as a team they are struggling to gel.
I do think that at any other club he would’ve been sacked about 2 seasons ago, for nothing else other than poor results. (Can anyone tell me Martinez’s win percentage in his time with us?) I like the bloke, he is a nice guy and all that. However I think he will walk in the summer, whatever happens. I think it is time for him to do so. I’ve heard that Al Ahly, or whatever they are called, are going to offer him £50,000 a week to manage them….and that they want the out of contract in the summer Jordi Gomez as well. Both SHOULD go, in my opinion. Nothing angry or bitter about that, just think the summer will be time for a change.
Hopefully we can stay up and he can walk away of his own doing, head held high.
Don’t know tha validity of the Al Ahly info considering that Jordi Gomez isn’t out of contract in the summer as he signed a new 2 or 3 year deal at the back end of last season!!
On the other stuff I kind of agree & I kind of don’t as he does tinker with formation during matches as he did on Saturday BUT he has almost constantly stuck with a 3 at the back starting line up even when we have had 3 of our 4 competing centre halves out injured – the only time I can remember him abandoning that was the live game against Arsenal
I also don’t think that scoring goals has been that much of an issue for Latics this season – yes they’ve failed to score in 8 out of 25 games (about a third of total played) but most of them games have been against the top sides (Uited twice, Chelsea, City, Arsenal) or when we’ve been reduced to 10 men (Newcastle & Sunderland) which leaves the Liverpool game as the disappointing one & even they can be a top side on their day
But you are right in saying that Latics conceded goals far too easily & teams don’t often have to work hard to score against us. take the 8 goals United put past Latics this season – I don’t think many (if any) came from great United play but sloppy defending & rank bad mistakes. Same with both goals Southampton scored at the weekend
The fact that in 18 (72%) league games Latics have played this season they would have had to have scored 3 or more goals to win is a damning statistic that would severely hamper even the world’s greatest strikeforcesI’ve thought that Baines was better than Cole for a few years now but I have to say that I thought Ashley Cole was one of only 2 or 3 England players to come out of last years Euros with any credit (1 of the others was Glen Johnson & I’ve always thought he was cr@p).
So for me Hodgson has it right in picking the pair of em & as I feel Cole did so well in that tournament I’d probably give him the nod too but it doesn’t do any harm for him to know that he has to keep up that level coz if he lets it slip he’ll be out & probably won’t come backI’d disagree with you and say it is of course a lack of self-control.No matter what the reasoning or rationale used to explain why they starting drinking heavily in the first place, unless they are deliberately drinking themselves to death, their lack of voluntary or involuntary self-control is what prevents them from quitting.
It’s exactly the same with smoking. I tried dozens of times to quit and failed, and it was only a bout of swine flu that finally did it for me. Not recommended by the way, but highly effective!
Yep, self-control was possibly the wrong phrase as you’re right that at some stage it does come into effect voluntarily or involuntarily – self-indulgence was probably a better one
The point I was making was that it’s too easy to look at an alcoholic, think “pish head” & assume they’ve wound up in that situation coz they were self-indulgent & just didn’t know when to say they’d had enough. Also, if there are inner demons behind what has led them to try & blot it out then simply having loads of money isn’t by any means an answer
