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Gloryhunter!!!!!!
Why don’t you support United
You never did tell me about Wigan V Tulsa Roughneck’s… :side:
I can’t believe that anyone is even remotely surpised that LMB didn’t spurn the opportunity to turn a light-hearted, admitted-by-the-author flawed analysis into yet another dreary anti-Martinez rant. Tedious beyond belief, now.
you braindead moron and that is an insult of the highest order
read any of the previous posts on this thread and show me where i have made any anti martinez rant.
The whole topic is a flawed attempt to indicate that player profits and value was better under martinez than previous incumbents, i will even paste the opening paragraph:-
” After debating some of Bruce’s signings versus Martinez signings and Filmoss’s bizarre statement that he expects more for his £295 season ticket it got me thinking who out of our few premier league managers have delivered the best value for money in terms of players signed ”
The data went on to show that overall martinez had made more year on year and total profit than his predecessors, which i offered a counter argument against because it just isnt true which ever way the figures are massaged.
The only reference i have made to martinez dierctly was actually a compliment – and again i will paste it for your benefit:-“From where I see it martinez is being credited with over 31 million pounds (valencia, cattermole, nzogbia) that he is not entitled to although in nzogbia’s case, playing under martinez suited him and added value to his net worth this is something that must also be included in any comparisons. ”
The only person making “anti” anyone “rants” is is you and predictably they are aimed once again in my direction with all the malice you can muster, i suggest you actually start to read what is going on before leting your pre determined opinion get in the way of the facts and that is the real tedium you mentioned.[/quote]
I suggest you go for a walk get some fresh air and come back and re-read the below extract.
“the best value for money in terms of players signed”
At what point does that make any reference to any players being sold and getting credit for the profit made?
Its all about how much in transfer fee’s have been spent.
Considering Bruce spent an average of 10 Million plus per season more than Martinez if you were to apply that to Martinez’s budget for 2 seasons you could Sign defoe out of the first £10 Million and then pay Defoe £48,076.92 per week for 4 years out of the next years £10million extra in the budget.
Back to the original point who is the best value for money?
Quite clearly Martinez over Bruce as he is in his 3rd season in the premier league having spent on average of half of what bruce did in a season ( that completely excludes transfer funds gained! )
Should we pull Bruce’s spending figures in from his recent Sunderland stint to back up my comment?[/quote]
are these not your words that I have copy and pasted then
Average Net Profits Per Season
Roberto Martinez = £ 0.58 Million
Steve Bruce = £ -9.2 Million
Chris Hutchings = £ 7.3 Million
Paul Jewell = £ -4.85 MillionNet Wigan Career Profit
Roberto Martinez = £1.74 Million
Steve Bruce = £-13.80 Million
Chris Hutchings = £3.65 Million
Paul Jewell = £-9.7 MillionI could not give a damn about bruce, my stance all along and for the past 3 seasons is against the blame every ill we have on bruce cliches’, deadwood, overpaying players, lack of footballing skill players in defence of martinez’s ineptitude.
I disagree with your interpretation of the figures you came up with as you cannot credit any of the 4 premierships managers gross spend without balancing it against gross income, it is basic economics, but it just shows how statistcs can be manipulated to suit any arguement abd why i quoted the famous mark twain analogy of lies, damn lies and statistics.
on your figures martinez has spent £31.76 million but out of that money he has brought in only about £2 mill on sales of his signings so taht is a net value of £29.76 over 3 seasons or £9.92 per season(minus as thats what he has cost us),
In bruces case i don’t think valencia can be included at all in either column, even though the purchase payment was in his tenure he remains jewells success story if you accept this bruces spend should read £26 million not £31m the money returned on sales of people he signed is the £17.2 you stated plus the £15.5 received for cattermole and nzogbia that makes a total income of some £32.7 million so that is now a net profit of £6.7 million so in his 1.5 seasons we are better off as a club by some £4.466 million a year.
If you divide that up into points gained per £millons spent, your “Statistically Martinez gets 0.05 more goals per game for 10.08 million less than Bruce per season“claim is again totally untrue.[/quote]
your the only one manipulating the statistics for your own point of view mongoid….
According to my apparently twisted statistics Chris Hutchings is leading the race by a country mile!
As I said I’m not saying they are 100% accurate but they are a lot closer than you will ever get with your £4 million’s for Di Santo and £3 million’s for Scotland!!
But if you can point out any discrepancies please do so and I will be happy to update so that once we can all agree the basic info is 99% accurate we can look at all the variable statistics you want to!
Salford must have a lot of free time at the office – as long as he isn’t getting into any arguments about air conditioning or whether they can have the window open…. ;)Guy Browning offers 20 top tips for surviving life in the workplace…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/oct/18/workandcareers.healthandwellbeing
We all have our own ways of getting through our day…
Educating the ignorant is one of mine :)
Yeah I think his best days are probably well past him now.
Personally I would sign him just because he is a legend.
Saying that I would also sign Nathan Ellington in a flash which I guess is why the decisions are best left to the pro’s….
I can’t believe that anyone is even remotely surpised that LMB didn’t spurn the opportunity to turn a light-hearted, admitted-by-the-author flawed analysis into yet another dreary anti-Martinez rant. Tedious beyond belief, now.
you braindead moron and that is an insult of the highest order
read any of the previous posts on this thread and show me where i have made any anti martinez rant.
The whole topic is a flawed attempt to indicate that player profits and value was better under martinez than previous incumbents, i will even paste the opening paragraph:-
” After debating some of Bruce’s signings versus Martinez signings and Filmoss’s bizarre statement that he expects more for his £295 season ticket it got me thinking who out of our few premier league managers have delivered the best value for money in terms of players signed ”
The data went on to show that overall martinez had made more year on year and total profit than his predecessors, which i offered a counter argument against because it just isnt true which ever way the figures are massaged.
The only reference i have made to martinez dierctly was actually a compliment – and again i will paste it for your benefit:-“From where I see it martinez is being credited with over 31 million pounds (valencia, cattermole, nzogbia) that he is not entitled to although in nzogbia’s case, playing under martinez suited him and added value to his net worth this is something that must also be included in any comparisons. ”
The only person making “anti” anyone “rants” is is you and predictably they are aimed once again in my direction with all the malice you can muster, i suggest you actually start to read what is going on before leting your pre determined opinion get in the way of the facts and that is the real tedium you mentioned.[/quote]
I suggest you go for a walk get some fresh air and come back and re-read the below extract.
“the best value for money in terms of players signed”
At what point does that make any reference to any players being sold and getting credit for the profit made?
Its all about how much in transfer fee’s have been spent.
Considering Bruce spent an average of 10 Million plus per season more than Martinez if you were to apply that to Martinez’s budget for 2 seasons you could Sign defoe out of the first £10 Million and then pay Defoe £48,076.92 per week for 4 years out of the next years £10million extra in the budget.
Back to the original point who is the best value for money?
Quite clearly Martinez over Bruce as he is in his 3rd season in the premier league having spent on average of half of what bruce did in a season ( that completely excludes transfer funds gained! )
Should we pull Bruce’s spending figures in from his recent Sunderland stint to back up my comment?
seeing as I was mentioned in the original thread I will attempt to clarify the ambiguity ! I buy a season ticket every year come what may and I am aware that our season tickets are the 2nd cheapest in the Prem and I am aware that we wont ever be European football contenders. What I will say is that for us to have only won one game at home 6 months ago, I feel that my usual just under £300 spent has not given me the sporadic pleasure that I had anticipated !!I would say buying a season ticket is alot like buying a car…
If you spend £295 on a car there is a good chance it may spend a few month’s sat in a garage.. But there is always the chance with a good mechanic that isnt trying to rip you off it might just get you where you need to be in the end ;)
His rigid set up away from home bored the hell out of me.
Like the 5-0 away at hull, or when we outplayed liverpool at anfield, only for the referee to get them back in the game(the best display EVER by a wigan athletic side), even the draws away at liverpool and chelsea in bruces first season.
I agree you cant compare any of that boring stuff with the excitement of the 9-1 at spurs or 8-0 at chelsea or the 5-0 x 2 at man u, even the 4-1 against second division blackpool, or the draw scraped at 3rd division notts county, not to mention the edge of seat display we produced at 4th division swindon town, by heck the stewards were frantic on those occasions trying to get us to sit down and calm our wanton enthusiasm.[/quote]
Good morning.
Statistically Martinez gets 0.05 more goals per game for 10.08 million less than Bruce per season.[/quote]
“statistically” the chances of you being able to read what I have said and digest and compute that information are practically non-exsistant, knock 31 million pounds off martinez plus column(as pointed out earlier) and give me your “statistical” answer then, and by all means feel free to add the goals conceeded figures per season for pounds spent as well.[/quote]
Your point is that the Valencia sale should not be credited to Martinez because it was already a done deal before he was in place right?
Take it out and it means that statistically Martinez gets 0.05 more goals per game for 10.08 million less than Bruce per season.
I think your missing the point re: Martinez having the money gained from Cattermole and Valencia.
the fact is on a playing level Martinez lost a young strong hard tackling midfielder (hard to come by) and a winger who in the past few weeks is being considered one of the best players in the premier league ( pretty much impossible to come by ) thus reducing the quality at his disposal.
Yet his team is still scoring more goals than your beloved Bruce’s.
If we are talking money then the Cattermole deal was 100% controlled by Martinez unless Bruce put Cattermole up for sale left the club then bought him? this combined with the fact that you think De Ridder was a reliable player despite being the first winger in history who couldnt cross a ball or beat a man 99% of the time is enforcing my opinion that you are in fact a mongoloid.
His rigid set up away from home bored the hell out of me.
Like the 5-0 away at hull, or when we outplayed liverpool at anfield, only for the referee to get them back in the game(the best display EVER by a wigan athletic side), even the draws away at liverpool and chelsea in bruces first season.
I agree you cant compare any of that boring stuff with the excitement of the 9-1 at spurs or 8-0 at chelsea or the 5-0 x 2 at man u, even the 4-1 against second division blackpool, or the draw scraped at 3rd division notts county, not to mention the edge of seat display we produced at 4th division swindon town, by heck the stewards were frantic on those occasions trying to get us to sit down and calm our wanton enthusiasm.[/quote]
Good morning.
Statistically Martinez gets 0.05 more goals per game for 10.08 million less than Bruce per season.
Considering your so happy with the previous stats loudmouth here is another little chestnut… Just for you!
Average goals per game
Robert Martinez = 0.98
Steve Bruce = 0.93
Chris Hutchings = 0.71
Paul Jewell = 1.08Martinez
2011/2012 26 games 20 points 23 goals
2010/2011 38 games 42 points 40 goals
2009/2010 38 games 36 points 37 goalsBruce
2008/2009 38 games 45 points 34 goals
2007/2008 24 games 32 points 24 goalsChris Hutchings
2007/2008 14 games 8 points 10 goals
Paul Jewell
2006/2007 38 games 38 points 37 goals
2005/2006 38 games 51 points 45 goalsIs it just me going blind Salford, or have you missed Boselli off the list?Your not wrong mate. Me and Soccerbase appear oblivious to that one!
Got the £6 million defecit in but begs the question now what are we receiving in loan fees for him…
Anyone going to the fan forum monday who could ask that question ? Not sure if you will get an answer though.
Interesting stuff, and goes some way to exploding another myth. Did we have a turnstile on the trainng ground door when Jewell was here?The obvious missing elements are:-
1) money recouped in sales
2) salary costs2) is obviously difficult to ascertain but you should be able to do 1), Salford. Come on, chop chop!
The first reply to that in my head was get stuffed Griff…
But then I realised its either that or get some propper work done this afternoon :)
If anyone can differ from the figures or think of anything else give me a shout and will edit again.
Leave the decision making to RM, he knows what he is doing ( Stifled cough ) !!When he keeps us up this season that will be 3 on the trot…
Our most succesful manager ever?
debatable criteria… but credit where its due ey.
You talk about bad signing’s and then bring up Steve Bruce?
Krapo, De riddled and that chinese fella….
3 of our worse premiership signings without a doubt!
Kapo cost 3 million – he looked the part prior to signing for us , I actually remember going to birmingham when he had a blinder against us, bossed midfield and scored 2 goals- however he rwas poor for us so yes he was a mistake, de ridder and “the chinese fella”(Won-Hee Cho,who was actually South Korean)were both free transfers, de ridder never let us down when he played, and cho was probably more about raising our profile in the asian markets.And those signings were all made when our transfer budget was alot more than now – dont forgrt about the massive profits bruce’s signings brought in as well, although king and kapo are negatives on his transfer cv.
If you want to compare signings, how about this front 3
boselli(£6+mill)
scotland(£3mill)
di santo(£4mill)Now for a team with such a limited amount of money to spend now compared to what we were prepared to spend in the past the amount of money for goal return that martinez has spent is actually a disgrace.[/quote]
Scotland and Di Santo were both £2 million so dont get too carried away will you…
Bruce signed Marlon King for £ 5 million !!!
Your not pulling the wool over my rose tinted specs sunshine…
Listen, if Boselli had been a success and bagged a hat full he would have been gone last Summer ! Is he still our player ? As fans and paying customers should the club at least tell us what the current situation is regarding him ? Nobody seems to know the full story on this enigma !
He’s out on loan – what more do you want to know?[/quote]
Why is out on loan to the club who we paid £6million for in the first place is a good question in my book !![/quote]
So we can recoup part of the fee we paid from loan fees, have his wage bill covered and give him the chance to get back to his goal scoring ways so he can either come back in good form or tempt a large in enough transfer fee.
Talk about criticising for the sake of it…[/quote]
I don’t think it is quite as simple as you put it ! have you got some figures to back up your answers ? Something has gone on, what ? Who knows but it has !![/quote]
Could be a case for Moulder and Scully….
