TyldesleyLatic

From latics he went on to Colchester & he may even have been involved with Ipswich after that but it might just be my mind paying tricks on me

As for stabilising us – dunno about that. he saved us from the horror of Bill Kenyon but things continued to be pretty dire. One story I heard either Kenny Swain or Brenda Spencer tell the media was that in the summer of 1994 the club could not even afford to buy paper for the fax machine. I wouldn’t call that stability
On the flip side he made exactly the right appointment in Graham Barrow as that saved us from relegation from the football league. he wasn’t the manager to take us forward but he was needed at that point

Yes, as he says, one for the future. Bobby wasn’t referring to Sammon when he said we had a stronger squad. That was is, admittedly bizarre, statement that the three players returning from injury were making us a stronger squad.

You know full well that the “people who criticise” comment wasn’t aimed specifically at you. But you do use it to suit your argument some times ;) [/quote]

Apology accepted Griff ;)

For what its worth I do think that his comment was intended to include Sammon as well as the 3 returning players as it was made after deadline day (as well as being made before it)

Bicky – you took the words right out of my mouth with that comment
Don’t people know that Bobby doesn’t sign players who are “ready” – he signs players who need time to “adapt” & who can be eased in. Expect Sammon to be given 10 or 15 minute cameo sub appearances for the next 12 months or more a la Victor Moses.
Or if he is thrown straight in & is a complete flop Bobby will use the excuse that he never intended to throw him in at the deep end but intended to ease him in & that’s why they don’t look up to the job but they will do in another 12 months a la Scotland, Gomez etc…[/quote]
Bit of a generalisation that Tyldesley if you don’t mind me saying.

Boselli, Di Santo, Gary Caldwell, Gahouri, Alcaraz, Diame, Thomas, Stam all played in the next game immediately after signing.

However, McCarthy, McCarthur, and Moses have all had to adapt in the reserves/on the bench – which, when you look the three players listed, begs the questions: does it work – especially with young players, and is Martinez right to do so when a lot of those thrown straight in are regarded as flops?

Personally I think it’s a good policy – picking up good young players on the cheap, however, it’s building for the future, which isn’t exactly great when you’re trying to avoid relegation.

And to end…picking up from any earlier thread:

‘And believe it or not it is possible to get players who are capable of stepping straight into a premier league side at our level without needing upwards of 12 months to adapt without breaking the bank.’

Who? Names names of Premier League players who aren’t being sold at inflated prices or who are on crippling salaries that would come to Wigan.[/quote]

1) I never said Bobby hasn’t signed any players who were capable of hitting the ground running. I’m more than aware that he has – my argument is that Latics (in this division) are always likely to be struggling. If we want to succeed in that battle year on year the squad needs to have players who can hit the ground running. IMO its only the bigger clubs who can afford to ease players in
2) Does it work easing them in? I’m not sure. For a start I don’t think McCarthy was eased in. He spent the entire pre-season injured & had trouble getting his fitness levels up. When he was fit Bobby played him in the cup game against Hull & he’s been an automatic starter ever since. I have no idea what he’s playing at with Moses – he’s been here a year now & he still doesn’t seem to think he’s ready for anything other than 15 minute sub appearances. £2.5mill of our scant resources for an impact sub?? I would say 12 months should be more than enough for him to have adpated but apparently not. McArthur seems to have taken to life at this level no problem but he seems to rank him behind Thomas, Diame & Watson. All 3 of those players have their limitations & faults but he won’t take a risk on McArthur
3) I agree a club needs to have a long term plan & a short term one but as Bobby said the other day, its vital to the future plans of Wigan Athletic that we stay in the premier league and I don’t think some of his short term decisions are making that an option
4) What players are out there who could hit the ground running without being bought at inflated prices & crippling salaries. I don’t know – I don’t have an array of scouts or agents at my disposal. Please note however that I didn’t say they had to be established premier league players I simply said our signings (in this window) needed to be players who could hit the ground running

Why is it that whenever someone makes a comment regarding disappointment in a signing (& I aint criticising him without seeing him play but more the point that in the midst of a relegation battle we’ve signed someone who is going to take a good while to settle in – thus rendering them pretty much useless for the battle ahead?) somebody jumps down their throat with the same old tired “yes he should have bankrupted the club by spending millions on a signing & millions more on his wages.

At no point did I state that & in another post on another thread have stated that I understand the restrictions on our transfer policy.
That said I’ve argued virtually since Bobby took charge that it is of no use to Latics as a premier league club to sign players who need significant time to adapt to quality of this division. Latics need players that can hit the ground running coz if we sign players who need time to adapt, by the time they’ve adapted the club will be pretty much relegated (as it is at present looking at the fixtures we have ahead)
At present we have players like McArthur, Moses (12 months after signing), McManaman, Sammon, Lopez/Piscu all occupying vital squad positions but who our manager doesn’t feel are ready to be regular starters because they haven’t yet adapted. Prior to that Bobby used the excuse that his plan on starting the job was to run with the remnants of Bruce’s squad (using players that several managers had not seen fit to play) whilst easing in the likes of Scotland & Gomez. They might as well not be here to be honest
And believe it or not it is possible to get players who are capable of stepping straight into a premier league side at our level without needing upwards of 12 months to adapt without breaking the bank.
Bobby talks of a squad that is stronger now than it was at the start of the transfer window despite shipping out a player who cost him £6mill (and who he also now says needs time to adapt to England by playing in Italy!!! £6mill for someone who wasn’t yet ready to play English football – marvellous. Isn’t that was his scouts should be telling him. or rather they did & he ignored em!!) with someone who cost £450k & who isn’t really ready to play for us either. On what planet is that a stronger squad?????

What did i want him to say or rather what did I want him to be able to say about any new signing he made “he’s a quality player who will be able to handle the step up in class. we’ve got ourselves a bargain” as opposed to “our new signing will be a good un, just don’t expect to see that much of him during our relegation battle coz he isn’t ready”
If that really is the case then he should have kept his hands in his pockets rather than signing someone who seems to believe will have little impact on our relegation fight

Welcome Scholes to the strange, bizarre, warped, twisted view of reality that exists in Martinez’s brain where decisions aren’t made for the benefit of the team here & now but what they might reap for you a couple of years (and a relegation) down the line

i think you hit teh nail on the head there Edinburgh – They have the ability to shock every now & again & it quite literally is every now & again. Sporadically – its never sustained.
After beating Chelsea, Arsenal & Liverpool last season the following games saw us lose to Hull, West Ham & Bolton respectively.
Likewise when they beat Spurs this season we followed it up with a draw & a loss in our next 2 games.
If we do spring a surprise against say City or Chelsea in that run we’ve got coming up we’ll in all likelihood chuck that advantage away in our games against Brum & Blackpool

I stand to be corrected but there’s no way that Bobby’s team is capable of going on the sort of sustained run needed to avoid getting relegated. They’ve not shown any capability of being able to do that since August 2009

The way i look at our predicament is that we have 23 points at present & probably will need 38 to be absolutely sure of staying up – though the probable figure will be a bit lower (didn’t 36 keep us up last season?)

That means we need 15 points or 5 wins from 13 games.
Now given the fact that Latics have only won 4 in 25 so far this season (1 win roughly every 6 games) & our more recent record is 1 win in our last 12 games, to expect us to go on now & win 5 in our next 13 games is completely & utterly unrealistic when nothing in the previous 25 games has given us any indication of the team being able to sustain that sort of run.
One faint glimmer of hope is that our current points per game record so far this season is 0.96 points a game which would give us just under 12 points from our remaining games so its probably gonna have to be fingers crossed that 3 other teams slump even worse than us & 35-34 points might just do it

On the down side as well though you also have to look at the teams around us in the relegation mire who signed the likes of Robbie Keane & David Bentley and we signed some bloke for under half a mill from Kilmarnock & there’s not even any straws for us to clutch at to say our new signing could kick start a revival (not that I’m saying latics could or should have broke the bank to make a big signing).
Nor do I buy into the “having Moses, Cleverley & Di Santo back is like 3 new signings” bumpf either coz all 3 have at some point contributed to the poor current record anyway & he doesn’t play one of em even when fit

Bicky – you took the words right out of my mouth with that comment
Don’t people know that Bobby doesn’t sign players who are “ready” – he signs players who need time to “adapt” & who can be eased in. Expect Sammon to be given 10 or 15 minute cameo sub appearances for the next 12 months or more a la Victor Moses.
Or if he is thrown straight in & is a complete flop Bobby will use the excuse that he never intended to throw him in at the deep end but intended to ease him in & that’s why they don’t look up to the job but they will do in another 12 months a la Scotland, Gomez etc…

If Alcaraz is fight then I’d imagine he will start him in the middle & we will have a right footed centre half playing at left back coz a) Bobby saw fit to only have 1 experienced left back in the squad &/or b) if he won’t take a risk on Mustoe playing in either FA Cup game he aint gonna chuck him in to a crucial premier league game &/or c) Bobby likes putting square pegs in round holes

From what I’ve seen of him I have my doubts as to whether Alcaraz is good enough for this level as he seems to forever get sucked out of position (remember S Caldwell’s scrap with him against Bolton at home & where exactly he was on the pitch when he committed the foul on Fletcher that got him sent off against Man U) & his distribution is awful
Gohouri tends to get himself in the right positions & is prepared to stick his head in where it might get hurt but his distribution is even worse than Alcaraz
The 2 Caldwell’s are just too slow at this level
So I don’t particularly have any confidence in any of the central defenders Bobby has signed in being up to the job. I’d say put Boyce in there but then that would mean putting Stam on at right back & I don’t think he’s much kop either

How bad the defence became so quickly in the 18 months or so Bobby has been in charge is a disgrace although the 62 goals the team are on scheduel to conceded this season is a bit of a step up from the 79 they conceded last year although I think in part alot of that is to do with the only quality defensive signing Bobby has made – Al Habsi