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“Anyway, what price the wheels falling off at Meadow Lane on Saturday?”
I feckin hope not, I’m already planning my Wembley weekend away for me & my mates!!
As for Bruce & Bobby its true we aint a million miles apart in our views. However there were time sunder bruce that we played some really good football & it was committed stuff, entertaining & the rest but that all fell by the wayside in the last four months as players (& the manager) lost heart or saw it (as Whelan) did that it was safety achieved so job done
Likewise under Bobby some of the football has been really impressive (we all know the games so I won’t list them) but at times its been God awful to watch (again we all know the games) but in addition the players & management have at times looked completely clueless as to what they’re doing or how to change it
It all comes down to what you prefer to see – I’d rather see Michael Brown running round like a blue @r$e fly after any opposition player with the ball & not letting them settle than a midfield who at times give the opposition all the time in the world to strut their stuffAs I’ve said we’ve seen glimpses under Bobby of what they can do but I won’t get excited by good performances till they come consistantly
Dunno to be honest I didn’t read any of the threads posted since my last post yesterday
But if you did say that then yes I agree with you!!Somet else I thought of last neet whilst driving wom from work.
Someone earlier in the thread has pointed out that Martinez is stuck with some of the $h!te Jewell & Hutchings signed & then has Bruce’s dodgy ones too.
Sorry but that particular point doesn’t stand up to scrutinyIt applies to the squad members who don’t get a sniff of first team action these days & who some we have since shipped out: Kapo, Bouaouzan??, De Ridder, King, Watson etc… and I guess that you could argue they take up valuable space on the budget so Bobby might not have been able to bring in everyone he needs but of those who actually get regular game time lets really look at the “$h!t” he’s been left with:
Kirkland, Melchiot, Figueroa, Boyce, Bramble, N’Zogbia, Scharner, Rodallega – That’s 8 players signed by previous managers. 4 of whom are rumoured big money transfer targets for other clubs so they really are a pile of $h!te aren’t they??? Of the remaining 4 all have looked good under previous managers & now look shadows of their former selves under Bobby
Scotland, Gomez, Diame, Thomas, McCarthy – all signed by Bobby. As pointed out elsewhere Thomas isn’t really a Bobby signing & to be frank blows hot & cold anyway. Scotland & Gomez in no way shape or form look good enough for the top flight. McCarthy looks promising so far but so did Watson after his first couple of games. Which leaves Diame who looks pretty goodTo me that looks more like a manager inheritting a decent first XI making them perform worse (for the most part), adding a bit more crap to the squad & adding a decent player or 2
“are these the same tactics that never saw us win in 9 games (may be wrong saying 9 correction if i am) and just about scrape a win against a very poor pompey side at the end of last season”
I am not disputing that at the back end of last season under Bruce the results weren’t up to scratch but he had the best bits of his team sold out from under him when we were pushing from a European spot & a chairman announce to the world that our only ambition was to stay up.
Aside from the fact that vital members of the team were flogged & which meant their replacements had to hit the ground running in mid-season as opposed to having a pre-season to prepare. If people are saying that some of Bobby’s players have needed time to adjust the same can be said of Bruce’sNot only that but IMO the way Whelan acted in January of last year with regards to player sales & all our player’s have a price announcements knocked the stuffing out of Bruce. he had a team genuinely challenging for Europe & was told by Whelan “We’re in this league to survive. We’re now safe so start planning for next season now. regardless of whether you want them to stay you are gonna have to sell players now to raise money for next season’s survival bid(as he stated on more than one occasion with Heskey – we would be mad to let him leave in January even if it means losing him for nothing in the summer).
If I was building somet good at work & my boss told me to flog it or knock it down & start again I would be de-motivated tooAs for using the last part of the season as an example of how bad Bruce was. In the last 20 games Latics conceded 27 goals. In the first 20 of this season we have conceded 44 goals. Last season we wone 2 of our last 9 games. This season we have won 2 of our last 9 games.
“Go on then, who else do you want to have the job?”
Can you please point out where I said I wanted Bobby to be sacked or that I wanted someone else to have the job
I/we were asked on what we have seen so far who was the better manager at latics & for me it was BruceI actually agree he needs to be given at least a season to prove himself. I’ve seen enough sparks to think we are capable of somet better but they are just sparks & for me he needs to do much better coz his “system” fails far more than it works – so far
“I know Valencia was good for getting back and helping out but lots of midfielders dont do that, and a right back should be good enough to deal with situations”
yes but they can’t mark 2 men. regardless of whether Melchiot is nwo past his best when an opposing full back overlaps down the wing you need your wide man to track back & cover as the full back can’t mark 2 men no matter how good he is.
Valencia did that, N’Zogbia doesn’t – goal Da Silva set up for United in december is one that springs immediately to mind“he had 3 months of transfer window?
jesus christ lad!! he should have turned it around in that time shouldn’t he!
3 months of a window in relation to players 4 – 5 yr contracts is nothing.
you cannot ship out all the rubbish we have in one window and bring in a whole new squad.
I don’t think your grasping my point”I know exactly the point you are making area51 – I just disagree with it
When trying to compare Bruce & Bobby – in one (shorter) transfer window (and after less time in the job) Steve Bruce had turned around a bloody awful & clueless side into one that was pretty good & he was lumbered with a lot of Hutching’s & Jewell’s $h!te. IMO Bobby has made the side worse than it was last season although that is a matterof personal opinion
You can also compare the players who worked under Bruce & who are still here under Bobby. With the possible exception of N’Zogbia they are all (IMO) playing worse under Bobby than they did under Bruce & whilst the players themselves have to shoulder some of that blame so does the manager
You also made the point that we couldn’t possibly judge Bobby coz he hasn’t been in the job long enough. He’s been in post for over 7 months now. Most decent companies will give a new employee a 6 month trial period & its a fairly dcent time frame to form an opinion about a football manager’s ability.
I am not saying sack him by any means but there are alot of things about Latics on the football field that need improving that can’t all be blamed on inheriting some crap squad players from previous managers or only having 3 months of a transfer window in which to sign & release players
So the point I was making was that it is perfectly possible to judge Bobby on the season so far & IMO that judgement is could be doing alot better
i don’t think you’re grasping my point!!!
“Bobby has had very little transfer window to work with. How can we be judging him at all”
I take your general point, but Bobby had nigh on 3 months of a transfer window to make signings. he’s made some alright ones & some shit ones so far. Just like Bruce
Bruce turned a very poor side, conceding goals left right & centre into a half decent one before the transfer window. When that month long transfer window had come & gone he’d made decent enough signings (along with coaching appointments) to turn the side into one which had top 8 form.
In roughly an equal amount of time (IMO) Bobby has done a poorer jobI can only judge Bobby on what I’ve seen so far & for the most part that has been poor – from tactics, to formations, to team selection, to substitutions, to performances with just the odd glimpse (Villa, Chelsea, last week etc..) that when they click they can produce somet pretty good
Yes its probably wrong to compare a guy in post for 7 months with one who was in post for 20 months but to say “how can we judge him at all” is a load of crap IMO
I always though Valencia would score more goals at United simply because he would get more chances to score. His miss last night (even though he was flagged offside) from under a yard out showed he still misses more than he scores
But on the brief glimpses I have seen of him this season his crossing & ability to beat a man have improved no end.
I’m tempted to say N’Zogbia is better at Latics than Valencia was but as others have pointed out, even if Valencia wasn’t having a great game going forward you noticed him tracking back & getting stuck in. If N’Zogbia isn’t having a great game going forward you don’t even notice he’s on the pitch
So I’m sitting firmly on the fence
Ignoring the way that Bruce jumped ship (although I can’t blame him & if you think Bobby will do any less if a “bigger” club comes calling then you are living in cloud cuckoo land) & basing my decision solely on the tactics & consistant performances then its Steve Bruce hands down for me – so far.
For all you saying look at the mess Bobby inherited a) as someone else has pointed out I don’t think it was that much of a mess & b) look at the pile of chaotic situation Bruce inherited.
We hadn’t won in god knows how long, had no recognised left back & he turned players who were playing poorly before he came Bramble – in fact the whole back four, Kirkland, Valencia etc. into looking twice as good within weeks.
Within months Bobby has turned those players who were here under Bruce & playing well – Bramble, Boyce, Melchiot, Kirkland etc.. into (at times) as much use as a chocolate fire guardBloody hell, there’s loads of games that stick in the memory for loads of different reasons but for sheer enjoyment of what is happening on the pitch this one always sticks in my head:
December 26th 1994 away at Bury. Game probably shouldn’t have taken place as there was standing water all over the pitch & the ball could barely travel more than 6 yards along the ground. That made for a the sort of blood & guts, ding dong, affair I enjoy with the lead changing back & forth. From memory I think we may have gone 1-0 down & then 2-1 in front & then 3-2 down when Mark Lenoard got put clean through in fron of the away end (when it was down the other end of the pitch from where it is now), he rounded the keeper & had an open net & all he needed to do was keep the ball off the floor when he kicked it, However being the super striker that he was he decided to side foot it along the floor & it hit & mud & water patch, slowed down & 2 Bury defenders were able to get past him & hack the ball away. At least that’s what i thought but the liner flagged it had gone over so I quickly had to stop my rant at Leonard.
Think it finished 3-3.
Dunno why that game sticks in the mid more than someMore obvious mentions must go to both Coventry cup games in 1991 & the City Worthington Cup game in 2002
If you jump into a tackle with both feet off the floor it is deemed reckless as, under the laws of the game, you are deemed not to no longer be on control of your body/the tackle.
In that respect the first challenge was worst than the second & to say Webb wouldn’t have booked him if he hadn’t just booked Stearman is a load of rubbish.
As others have pointed out, the fact that he won the ball is irrelevant. If a player leaps in like that & just misjudges the other players speed or the speed of the ball & catches him, the to put it simply the other player would be f00ked
As for the second one, the full back was going to clear it & Thomas committed himself to a tackle. The full back cleared it & then Thomas arrived about a second later & wound up booting him up into the air. A clear booking“The moment Stearman got his marching orders it was inevitable that the ref was going to even it up at some point”
Don’t think that it was inevitable at all. Stearman left Webb with no option & neither did Thomas.
In fact you’re right in saying that another ref may have sent Thomas off for his first challenge.
I have no doubt that Webb made up his mind to give Thomas a second yellow even before the Wolves player leapt to his feet & pointed out he’d already been booked onceHindleyGreenLatic – as someone who has been a regular moaner on here this season I would just like to point out that one swallow does not make a summer
We have had great performances before this season – Villa, Chelsea, City, Burnley etc.. The problem has been that the next performance or few performances have invariably been $h!teIn fact your “where are all the whingers? … team is gelling & playing good football.. brilliant” based on one good league performance out of the last couple of months was as predictable as the “get Bobby out” threads that will start up if/when we get beat by Notts County/Forest Green, Blackburn or whoever we play next
VAT69 – are you being serious in saying Thomas’s 2nd yellow was harsh???? It was late, he caught him & kicked him a good few feet into the air. No 2 ways about it it was a 2nd yellow. There are also some refs who would have shown him a straight red for the 2 footed lunge that got him his first yellow. At least I think it was him who made that tackle my memory of the highlights I saw on Sky is a little blurred by alcohol
