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I can see your points & don’t wanna see knee jerk reactions but my worry is that if Whelan had waited until a month or so after the january transfer window before sacking Hutchings then I have no doubt that Latics would have been relegated. If he hangs on & gives Bobby the go ahead to sign some more of his own men & ship out the deadwood & we still have the same problems the I fear it’ll be too late for any manager to rectify the situation & latics will go down.
My worry is also that the poor squad argument has 2 flaws – 1) 7 of the recognised first team squad are Bobby men. IMO 4 of them aren’t good enough for the top flight & 2 I haven’t seen play. If we allow him to sign more will they be good enough & 2) Under Bobby’s stewardship our previously superb defensive unit has crumbled. All 4 (5 if you include Kirkland) can’t have become bad players overnight & a hell of alot of the blame for this has got to be pointed at Bobby & his coaching staff’s direction. What is the point in allowing him to sign more players if they are going to be given either bad coaching & instructions or coaching & instructions that are beyond their abilities??
I hope over the coming period that Bobby proves me wrong but I got it right with Hutchings although by the same token I’ll be honest enough to say I got it wrong with Jewell in his first season as I’d have had him shipped out by this time in the season. Hopefully Whelan is seeing things behind the scene that give him the same confidence in Bobby that he had in sticking with Jewell
“Tyldesley lad your sounding like vat” :o :o :o
Seriously though. How long is giving him a chance??
Hutchings quite clearly wasn’t up to the job & made the same mistakes time & time again without learning from them. At the time we heard from his defenders “yeah but we played well in the first four games that show’s what they can do” & “give him a chance”
Bobby now is making the same mistakes game after game. His good to bad signing ratio is pretty poor in my opinion & all we’re getting back to defend him is “yeah but we beat Villa & Chelsea, that shows what they can do”, “give him a chance” & the new one “he loves Latics”
After Hutchings, Bruce showed what a decent manager could do with the same team & Hutchings was kicked out of the door just in time.
I can forgive someone mistakes if they learn from them. If they repeat them over & over again that indicates a bigger problem.
The “give him a chance” brigade seem in my opinion to be burying their heads in the sand when it comes to his shortcomings“Bobby has a great tactical brain”
Can I just ask where the proof behind such a statement is?? I can see one tactic & one tactic only. If I’m missing something please let me know coz I see a team devoid of heart, direction, steel, confidence, fight & with a captain who openly admits that when his team go 2 goals down there is nothing the manager can do to turn it around.
I wonder if David Moyes & the Everton players thought that with 13 minutes to go on Sunday??I really want Bobby to succeed but at the moment he is showing very little that convinces me he can. Even a glimmer would do but the same mistakes are being made over & over again from team selections, to formations, to tactics
“Fulham were struggling under him early doors yet he was left to get on with things.
They only escaped relegation on final days of season”
If I remember rightly he came on relatively late in a season & slowly turned things around, culminating in their last escape from relegation & he has built from there. I don’t think he’s even been in the job 2 years
I understand the point you are trying to make just think you’ve used a bad example“Do you mean the Summer when Roberto only came on board really late due to Whelans fanny farting about trying to steal him from Swansea on the cheap instead of giving them a decent offer? Thus giving him no time to settle in and look at good transfers for us? (remember).”
No I don’t. I remember Steve Bruce leaving Latics on 3rd June & Bobby being appointed on 16th June. That’s under 2 weeks without a manager.
Bobby was appointed the best part of a month before pre-season training even started on 10th July & 2 and a half months before the transfer window shut at the end of August.
How on earth that isn’t enough time for a manager to settle in & look at good transfers I don’t know. In those 13 days what exactly do you think he could have done that would have made things so much better than they are now?
I aint saying sack him (I don’t know what the answer is) but all these apologists making excuse after excuse for the mistakes he has made & is makign are burying their heads in the sand“In Bobby’s defence, he’s been given NO money to spend and has bought players he was allowed to buy, he’s also got the hard job of tempting players to Wigan which can’t be easy”
Eh???
How can he have been given NO money to spend but been allowed to buy the players he’s been allowed to buy.
As for the “NO” money to spend claim – Martinez has spent about £12mill bringing in 7 players this summer. 2 of them don’t make any appearances for us to judge em on, 2 are restricted to sub appearances so Bobby quite clearly thinks they aren’t good enough to start games, 2 don’t look good enough for this level & 1 is alright. 1 decent signing (IMO) out of 7 is a poor recordAs for not having an easy job tempting players to Wigan – we all know the problems on that score but its the same problem Jewell, Hutchings & Bruce had
“Fulham are a very good example of what can be done if you let the manage get on with things”
Eh??? Fulham sacked Chris Coleman coz it looked like he was gonna take em down & then wewre very quick to sack Lawrie Sanchez several months later when it looked like he was about to do the same & got Hodgson in
To me Fulham are an example of a club who realised they had a manager hopelessly out of his depth & who acted quickly in getting shot of him & bringing someone with a wealth of top level experience. This is what has brought them their rewards at the moment!!Ellington had the ability to look like a world beater & a steaming pile of shit in the same game
He was also the proverbial “confidence player” – if he ever missed a sitter or didn’t score for a couple of games his head used to drop somet chronic & he looked dire. Till he’d score again & then he’d have a burst of superb games, before going a couple without & the cycle would start again
he also looked 10 times the player with a grafter like Roberts alongside him than he did previouslyAs for the comments that becoming a Muslim, Ramadan & all that affected his ability & form – there a plenty of muslim players the world over who fast & have beards & it doesn’t effect them. The fact is that until Whelan brought it up after he’d flogged him I didn’t hear too many people moaning about any mid-season drop in form
As I said things didn’t go quite to plan for him early doors at West Brom, the fans turned on Robson & he was seen as one of Robson’s flops & his form never recovered. He went from thinking he was great to nowt going right for him, not getting games & his confidence plumetting
LandgateBlue – of the 6 teams you mentionned in your post who are below us, 4 of them have beaten us & 1 of them we haven’t played yet.
That should tell you what you need to know about how much trouble Latics are in at presentPersonally I’m at a loss as to what to do. Martinez looks hopelessly out of his depth to me with poor signings (on the whole), poor tactics & poor formations. How he’s turned one of the best defensive units in the league into the worst in a matter of months is frightening. Results such as Chelsea & Aston Villa look like freak results when compared to the number of heavy defeats & mid match collapses we’ve seen
BUT
I can also see point AbramLatic is making about changing now & gambling on another manager beign anle to turn it round. However, there is no doubt that Whelan did the right thing in getting rid of Hutchings coz we would have got relegated under him. Bruce had already started to turn round the same group of players in a matter of weeks and before he’d had the opportunity to spend any cash in JanuaryI remember after a game away at Carlisle (may have been a cup game in 97/98 ish) where it kicked off outside afterwards & spilled out into the road stopping all the traffic
One bloke in his car stuck in the traffic decided he would parp his horn to get people to clear off & this old fella (must have been in his late 70’s/early 80’s who used to go to every game with his missus) turned round & brought his walking stick down square on the guys car bonnet, several times, flicked him the V & walked off. The look on the car driver’s face was priceless
Tufty – the thought of us legging it away like naughty school children from that strip club in Oldham always make me chuckle n’all!!!!
Going ar5e over tit celebrating Paul Rogers equaliser at home to Gillingham in 1999 & snapping all my ankle ligaments. Got strapped in one of them little, dinky, rickety, St John’s chairs on wheels things you see old fella’s who’ve collapsed getting carried out on & carted down the middle of the St Andrew’s side. Whilst being carried from the middle flat bit to the bottom (where the stand ended) Simon Haworth smacked in a goal to put us 2-1 up. I celebrated again & the St John’s fellas dropped me
Spotting the latics team coach on the M6 after a game away at Walsall where John Deehan tried the revolutionary 6 at the back formation. Hastily scribbling “DEEHAN OUT” on my mates t-shirt who then hung out of my friend’s sun roof as we (except the driver) hung out of the other windows flicking him the V’s. David Lee found it funny anyway!!Maybe, just maybe the plan is to release Edman in january & Bobby wants to bring in a younger left back who can learn & develop from being Figueroa’s understudy for the next 6-12 months or however long it is before latics flog him (assuming it won’t be next month).
Lets not forget either before you slate us for merely taking an Everton reject on trial (& a trial is all it is) that one Leighton Baines himself was also rejected by Everton & went on to be alreet. In fact football is littered with players like that
As for a bid for Stephen Warnock being worth a go – Are you sure??? Would this be the same Stephen Warnock signed by Aston Villa for a fair size sum (£8,000,000 to be precise) in August 2009, who has barely missed a game (if any) since & who’s manager was recently calling for him to be recalled to the England squad?????
Yep, I could see that one coming off!!I may well be wrong but I’m sure most agents have somehow wangled it so that they get a cut from both the selling & buying club in a transfer.
If that is correct, seeing how Latics were involved in outgoing transfers of about £40m just from the sales of Heskey, Palacios, Cattermole & Valencia not to mention the incoming transfer fees (the value of which escape me) for N’Zogbia, Rodallega, Scotland, Gomez, Diame, Thomas, Amaya it all adds up to a fair old wack of which the grubby agents get their cut“I was shocked to see that during our 9-1 defeat we obtained NO bookings”
From Bobby’s post match comments, the lack of bookings appears to have been some sort of instruction from him once they conceded the 4th!!
I don’t believe the slight delay in appointing Bobby has had any major effect on us. Yes you can use that as an excuse to some extent in the opening weeks but ffs we’re now the best part of 4 months into the season & it can no longer be used as an excuse.
As for the scouts looking for championship players & then having the goalposts moved, I take your point but its Bobby who believed (& still does if last weeks fans forum is anything to go by) that Jason Scotland & Jordi Gomez are good enough for the top flight – are they feckin hell as likeThe major fault at present is quite clearly Bobby’s tactics – The back 5 have been for the most part the same this season as last. Last season we had one of the best defensive records, so far this season we have the worst. That’s got naff all to do with goalposts moving or being 3 weeks behind in our spending – its purely down to Bobby & his coaching staff. Watching from the sidelines they seem to no longer be told their job is primarily as a defender (did someone on here say that Martinez said at the Forum he didn’t believe in defensive coaches) but that they are where our attacking play starts from.
Its not a delay in Bobby’s appointment that is to blame for us having one formation & tactic (4-5-1 & slow steady, build from the back build up play) and no plan b – that is Bobby’s decision/fault.
Its not a delay in Bobby’s appointment that is to blame for us playing a left winger on the right wing & our most prolific forward on the left wing
Its not a delay in his appointment that is insisting on playing Paul Scharner in an upfront/midfield role because that’s where Scharner told him he wants to play – it took Steve Bruce 2 games at the start of his reign to realise his only position in the top flight was at centre half & another couple of games when he tried it earlier this year“Graham Barrow and Graeme Jones were good lower league scrappers but who listens to them as coaches ?” – I said around the time of their appointment that this was a big concern of mine & said it was a concern about Bobby too. If its happening its as much the fault of the players as Bobby but he is the person (much like Jewell did in his first season in charge) who needs to sort it out or (like Jewell) get Whelan to do it for him!!!!
The team performances reek of players who are confused & disheartened & the blame for that lies solely at the feet of Martinez & his staff
