TyldesleyLatic

Exactly, it was Latics best top flight season in terms of going forward but if you’re going to need (on average) to score 2 goals every game just to get a point then you’re going down. Only United scored at a rate of 2+ a game on average

Where do I stand on what was to blame? On the fence – I don’t think the injuries helped in so much as Latics never got to play their strongest defensive line up & playing together does help partnerships develop, but playing behind a settled back line wouldn’t have stopped the countless times Al Habsi palmed shots straight back into the danger zone, or Figueroa & Robles messing about with it at the back against Spurs, or Caldwell giving the ball away to Swansea to let em back into the game, or Scharner getting just about nothing right in the game at Arsenal last week, or McArthur making a mess of a defensive header against Swansea he week before, or Scharner getting caught in possession at WBA to let em go 2-1 up, or only managing a point against 10 men QPR & on & on

I’m sorry but under Steve Bruce he was.
Jittery under Hutchings but dropped a clanger in the first 30 seconds of Bruce’s first game & then he was quite clearly told “You – ball – get rid” & he never looked back. Bruce knew what he was good at & told him to do it & leave the ball playing to someone else
Until Martinez arrived & the mantra became to play it out from the back – not a criticism of Bobby’s philosophy but Titus Bramble is never gonna be able to play that way even long after hell has frozen over.
Mock my comment all you want but the stats speak for themselves – during that 08/09 season where he played virtually all of the games Latics only conceded 45 goals. That was less the same as Spurs & West Ham (who finished 8th & 9th), less than City (who finished 10th), less than Villa (who finished 6th) and only 8 more than Arsenal & Everton (who finished 4th & 5th) so I’d say “rock” is a pretty decent description of anyone who was a part of that defence.
Especially when held up against the goals conceded record of the following 4 seasons: 09/10 (79), 10/11 (61), 11/12 (62) & 12/13 (73)

I do get what you’re saying in a way coz Bobby wasn’t just a first team manager but was the first in the Whelan era to take a whole club approach & (along with Whelan) try to make sure that the foundations were in place for the club to be able to compete without Whelan’s money. There is no doubt that he’s been successful there.
Nor is there any doubt that winning a major cup is a success too especially when you bear in mind that Latics defeated 2 of the top 6 teams in the country along the way.

However I’m sorry but there is no way that you can look at relegation as anything other than a massive step backwards not just in terms of the quality of league Latics will be playing in but in their ability to retain & attract players. Not to mention the huge £40mill black hole that it leaves in latics accounts. The club made a profit last financial year (before tax) which is to be applauded but that included the premier league Sky TV money – take that away & it turns into a substantial loss. Yes some of the big earners will be going as their contracts have expired but what will Latics be able to offer any new recruits in terms of salary.
Bobby himself said the other season that it was absolutely vital to the long term future of Wigan Athletic for the club to remain in the top flight – well that’s gone & getting £2.5mill from the Europa League group stages & £1.8mill for winning the FA Cup is buttons compared to the £60mill for playing in the top flight next season.

I know that thanks to the efforts of Whelan & Bobby that the club will still be here as will most of us but relegation is a massive backwards step & to say it isn’t is akin to burying your head in the sand

Should the defensive coach not take some responsibility for the many gaffs made by our defenders over the past 4-5 seasons?

no disrespect to Dennis Lawrence, but from what I remember, he has never played at the top level , so is it time to bring in someone with PL and International experience?. :dry:[/quote]

Come on!!! What a way to absolve Bobby of any blame.
Bobby appointed him & as a coach he will have instructed the players to do what Bobby told him to instruct them to do.
As for not playing at the top level. So what? Neither did Bobby or any of the other coaches. Come to think of it neither did Wenger or Mourinho. Bobby Charlton on the other hand was one of the best players Englane ever produced but was absolute shite as a manager

goodpost goodpost goodpost ;)

I think you’re getting too tied up in me mentioning Everton in my original post
From what I can gather Bobby is on the radars of a number of clubs across Europe. So forget about Everton & call it A.N. Other FC – if they were to entice Bobby away I think that would lead to more of the in-contract players itching to move away (McArthur, Maloney & McManaman) than would be the case if he were to stay.
I also think that it would have a major negative impact on Latics ability to entice players to the club. If you’re a player with a few new clubs to choose from you are unlikely to choose the one that has been freshly relegated & where 16 players & a manager have legged it from since the previous season’s end.

The job of getting promoted or even mounting a challenge is going to be hard enough but I think if Bobby does leave it is going to be nigh on impossible – for that reason I want him to stay. Not because I think he’s one of the best managers in Europe (copyright D Whelan) because I don’t but coz I fear the consequences of him leaving more than i fear (or look forward to – either works) the consequences of him staying

I think it’s a certainty that all the out of contract players will leave so that gives us a starting list of Figueroa, Alcaraz & Di Santo plus fringe/unwanted players like Boselli, Stam & Jones
I also read the other week that Golobart is out of contract & wants out due to a lack of opportunities. Might be true, might not be.
Then like you say the loanees will go back so there’s Scharner, Robles & Henriquez

So I have as a bare minimum 9 players going & possibly 10

Of the in-contract players I think McCarthy is a cert to be sold if only to raise some cash for new signings.
I also doubt Kone will wanna hang around as he has whinged at several points about it being unusual for him to be involevd in a relegation battle. Plus they’ll be plenty of clubs wanting to sign a bloke that got 12 league goals in a relegated side
Ramis I think would want to go but I’m not sure how many clubs will wanna go in for a bloke currently sidelined with a cruciate knee ligament damage

So that now gives us 11-13 going

I think who else would wanna leave depends on Bobby’s decision to stay or not.
If Bobby stays I think Maloney, McArthur & McManaman would elect to stay for at least another season. If Bobby goes I can see them being open to offers from top flight clubs & if Bobby goes to Everton I think that it’s a cert that he’ll come back for Maloney (& McCarthy).

So by my estimates I think Latics are looking at having to bring in anything from 11-16 players over the summer just to replace those who are likely to be going.
That’s a big ask combined with expecting em to hit the ground running & mount a promotion bid. The teams who are successful in coming back up (or at least mounting a challenge) are generally the ones who keep their squads together.
If Bobby does decide to go & the numbers needing to be replaced are at the higher end of my figures then the 2 combined are gonna make it very difficult to attract the quality of player needed to be pushing for promotion. 3 away games at some as yet unknown & possibly far flung European destination is unlikely to be able to mask a general impression of a club with everybody abandoning ship & one which is unlikely to be able to match the wages paid by the likes of Leicester, Forest, Leeds, Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Bolton etc.. in a stadium that is likely to be less than half empty for most of the time.

It’s gonna be tough, very tough. Looking forward to it already (depsite being absolutely gutted by our relegation) but I’m certainly not expecting the stroll in the park that some seem to be

I think that it’s a bit of both to be honest