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The easiest argument to win an appeal would be to argue that the season should have already ended hence any points deduction should be suspended.
Or you go down the force majure argument.
I’ve spoken to numerous players and agents that were around the in at that time and left in the first year or so of us going up. Every single one had the same story that they were promised new significant contracts if/when the club went up. Safe to say that this was verbally and on going up the club/Whelan changed tack and different offers were made/players sold or released! Whelan was a master negotiator in business and no doubt brought that into football.
I wasn’t going to get involved in this but I can’t help myself.
With all due respect to Whelan and his family they have openly said they aren’t willing to put anymore money into the club. If you listened to Martinez last night he basically said that winning the fa cup was the culmination of everything that DW wanted to do in football which is fair enough. I will be the first to admit I’ve questions about the management of the club the last few years but as an owner it is his and the family’s perogative to do what they want.
As for the new owners (if it goes through) well as long as they come in with a long term plan and not a bit of short termism then it can only be a good thing. Right now we are on the crest of a wave again and will be featuring prominently in the sports media all over the world. No better time to complete the takeover and use the momentum going forward to increase the overseas fan base etc.
As for why us, depending on the deal they could be buying a debt free club with a good infrastructure in place (or being built).
My mates mate at barclays told me the clubs account has been emptied
Emptied,??? I woulldn’t have thought there would be a penny in there to draw out. Probably more than likely closed or transferred to HSBC.[/quote]
Yep, we normally sit in the overdraft. Will be interesting to see if the deal includes the debt or if it is going to be cleared by the Whelan family presale which would explain why they’ve sold off some shares in dw sports.
Faz – I’d disagree withll of a lot that you say in your post.Of course there is a company who offer rail seats & they have toured and put forward proposals to clubs & the FSF but the campaign for safe standing has been fan led for almost as long as the standing areas have been removed from higher level football – and was one of the reasons why the initial Taylor Report recommendation for it across all divisions in professional football was never imnplemeneted
Secondly. We’re not idiots. People know that there is no way to make standing at a football game completely safe. You will always have accidents. People also know that the rail seating will not prevent you from moving from side to side but to be fair, seating at football ground isn’t completely safe either – I’ve injured myself in seating whether that be from whacking my legs on the back of the seat in front coz there isn’t enough room (Swindon Town & I still have the scars to prove it & Scott Green was playing that day to give you a sense of how long ago that was) or whether that be going over the seat in front celebrating a goal coz the banking of the stand was too steep & the height of the back of the seats not high enough (Wembley May 2013)
Thirdly on the off chance that someone is able to get hold of the key to move the seat down & stand on it – a) They’ll be an individual who is quickly lobbed out & b) it’s unlikely that the entire stand will do it or even enough people to make it a safety issue will be able to do it . A c) as well is that currently people can & do stand on the seats in ground anyway so I fail to see what point you’re making
People can currently move side to side when the seats are up. How would it cause any more injury than at present or represent any more of a danger if people need top leave in an emergency
Finally, the current seats aren’t designed for the occupants to be able to get over them & get to pitch level in the event of an emergency. Stadiums are designed for people to use the rows & aisles to evacuate whether that be through the stand (if you are at the top half of a stand in the DW) or at pitch level via the gangway at the front. The safety calculations make no account for people vaulting over the seats and various tests are done to ensure that using the rows, aisles & evac routes that the stadium can be completely evacuated within a specific time.
I’m sorry but at the moment, not a single one of the points you raised above stands up to any sort of scrutiny
Hi mate,
Like I said the “safe standing” campaign is led by the rail seat licensees. I dont doubt that fans have called for it ever since the ban but this specific campaign is funded and promoted by the company, thats why theres no open debate about other options for standing.
Again im not saying people are idiots but shoukdnt the campaign be safer standing rather than safe. Like you said standing isnt completely safe.
The point im making about the key and bringing down the seat is that again it makes it more unsafe. The key will be a generic allan key or similar and trust me they will be easy to get hold of or people will find other ways to drop the seat.
In an emergency at any sports club people can be asked to make their way to pitch level anything that restricts the direction people can move in an emergency can cause injurys. With the current seats people can clamber over them if need be in a rush. For instance what would happen if a rail seat aisle is blocked on one or both exits?
I totally agree its not planned that way but in an evacuation people will jump seats and in doing so reduce the weight of traffic to aisles.
Personally I think its daft us going back in time
With the greatest respect to jay and the club who I presume have asked him to ask this I find it farcical that they don’t know the full facts about it. For instance it’s not 1 person per rail seat when the seats are locked upright it’s 1.5 per space.
I don’t want to sound like a moaner or someone that won’t consider standing at football but I hate the fact that this campaign for “safe standing” that is being rammed down football fans throats isn’t a public/fan led thing. It’s actually a form of propoganda/publicity funded by the company/people that own the license to the rail seat in the UK. That is why we aren’t being offered different ways of standing.
I will openly admit I’m against “safe standing” and I questioned the company and its safety officer a few years ago outside the stadium when they had the roadshow here. I would propose it should be called “safer” standing because it isn’t as safe as seating at a game and was taken away and spoken to away from where people could listen.
Here’s some of the facts about it:
The rail seat is designed for 1.5 people per space when the seat is upright and 1 per space when it is down which is required at uefa sanctioned games such as European fixtures and international games both of which there’s a chance we and many others would never see at the club again.
The rail seat locked in the upright position can be dropped down by the use of a key, it’s almost certain people will be able to get hold of them and drop the seats down to stand on.
When the rail seat is locked in the upright position it is not possible to pass between rows. This sounds a good thing until you consider the fact that in the event of a security alert or fire or worse in the stadium specifically in that stand the plan is people make their way down to pitch level. This would restrict this.
The rail seat stops any surge and crush injuries from the front or back but what it doesn’t stop are people moving side to side which could cause serious injury or worse in a situation where people need to leave a row quickly.
The areas need extra stewarding at an extra cost to clubs and policing as the numbers would have to be closely monitored and policed.
There’s loads more but this is fast turning into an essay.
Got to answer this:
Gk: has to be filan but he just nudges out Carroll. Plus pollitt could be in there as he’s become a true servant of the club.
Lb: Studs McMillan when fit he looked prem class and he was just unlucky with injuries and having a youngster like baines behind him.
Cb: Colin greenall
Cb: Stuart balmer these two were the hardest choice de Zeuw and atherton the most talented and carragher , cribley, Jackson, Boyce, Breckinridge all in for a shout with even de via being considered.
Rb: nicky eaden
Lw: can only be Lee mac for me if only because for 3/4 years teams couldn’t get used to or handle our tactic of belting it crossfield onto his head!
Cm: jimmy Bullard as much as he split opinions we still haven’t replaced him and the same could be said of palacios.
Cm: kavanagh as said earlier in the thread when frandsen got injured it killed our season ( sure it was the year before we went up though ) kav came in and did what per was doing and in my opinion became the most important player in the team. Honourable mentions though for rogers, flynny, Kelly, killer kilford and rimmer.
Rw: controversial but tealey if only for the palace game (or was it peston) where it was a full 30mins plus of teale will tear you apart! On his day he was a game winner pity it didn’t happen too often!
Upfront the pair of Ellington and Roberts is split by Roberts dropping to the bench for Barlow! Just personal opinion though!
Hey Scoffy mate,
Best way if you want a walk is to go the way that vats said its easy enough, but if you want to save the lad a walk get the train to sandhills and jumo the soccer bus.
If any of you are driving you can park upto half way down roxburgh street which is near kirkdale station!
Blackpool! If only for the memories!
Brett ormerod i still stand by that he was only recalled to stop us going up!
Dont go the Pig and Whistle Vat! Its shocking, sweat falling off the ceiling at least i hope it was sweat and the birds looked like they had wizards sleeves between their legs!
Yeah im sure it was on Goals scored rather than goal difference!
Although i would agree that was a great day out! I cant believe it was 97 though it seems like it was yesterday!