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It was realised after our time in the Prem that the concourse in the North Stand was not big enough to accommodate a full capacity and so the number was lowered! I read that somewhere on our official website ages ago, well at least I think it was from the club!
As i understood it, the netting was put in to reduce the issues with the Latics fans in the East stand & that’s also why ES1 was closed off
The Rooney incident was at home TL and Callum is one example compared to the several above and several others we could list.I understand you defending refs and I understand it’s a tough job but you will never convince me, or most football fans, that the big clubs don’t get preferential treatment. There are far too many examples. It isn’t just football either.
The media has had a big say in it highlighting every poor call against the big clubs. Had Scholes rightly been sent off and Utd hadn’t won the title that year then the media and Sir red face wouldn’t have blamed Scholes they would have blamed the ref so in my opinion he bottled it. It never got a mention though.
Its one that i thought of off the top of my head Egg, there are plenty of others if I had the time or the inclination & I’m sure that if you asked our opponents down the years they could name many more too – but we remember far more when we’re sinned against than we do when we’re the sinners
With the Rooney incident against McCarthy – he should have walked. Absolutely no question but it was obvious at the time that Clattenburg didn’t see the elbow but saw coming together & awarded a free kick.
Now the FA regulations state that if, as a team of officials, you’ve seen the incident & dealt with it at the time then they can’t retrospectively go in & change the punishment because you might have missed something.
Fast forward a few years & that is exactly why McManaman got off scott free for his challenge on the Newcastle player.I’m not sure what relevance there is to the fact the Rooney challenge was on United’s home ground, coz McManaman’s was on Latics home ground.
I also remember the Scholes incident & you’re right he should have gone for a second yellow. If I remember rightly Latics should also have had a penalty before that when Ferdinand handballed it (pretty much identically to the one Southampton got away with at Anfield last night). Now I’m not saying that the ref didn’t bottle the decision but we see it game after game when a player on a yellow commits another foul that a ref could issue a second caution for but they don’t & give em a talking to & another chance.
You’re also wrong in saying that the incident never got a mention – it did. It was all over the media for a couple of days & I remember driving into work on the Monday with talksport on & it was all they spoke about for the entire 50 minutes I was in the car – including getting a former top flight ref in to discuss what might have been the ref’s though process when not giving the 2nd caution.Also, from the amount of whinging the big club managers & fans do after a game – ask them if they think they get all the decisions
I’m not saying that ref’s don’t get swayed by the atmosphere – if you’re wavering on a decision in a 74,000 crowd & 1000 Latics fans appeal subconsciously you are going to be less swayed by that than if 73,000 scream & shout just at the point where you’re wondering whether it was a foul. That’s human nature.
Actually going back to the Valencia sending off at Anfield when Latics were 2-1 up. There is no doubt that the ref got swayed by the moaning of Gerrard about Valencia encroaching. he’d been doing it before but didn’t move until the ball was kicked at the free kick & the ref was too focused on the wall to notice it had already been taken. Anyway even Benitez admitted that it shouldn’t have been a caution but he then went on to make a valid point – the second caution for him several minutes later should probably have been a straight red as he went in with both his feet off the floor.
Finally (Thank f00k) I should also say that I’m not saying ref’s don’t have stinkers. They do. Plenty of them but that’s all they are – they’re not deliberately favouring one team over the other. That ref in the afore mentioned game at Anfield had a stinker
Doesn’t matter whether he was out for a week, a month or had been able to carry on, the fact is he should have been sent off, wasn’t & the FA didn’t charge him retrospectively either.
Much like Rooney in the game at Old Trafford
It’s also impossible for the human eye to watch for a ball being kicked and a line of players 30yds apart especially when that line moves in two different directions.
It’s only sky’s freeze frame highlighting this now.
I’ve never officiated at a football match, but I understood that the technique is to watch the line and listen for the sound of the ball being kicked, having a split second before seen that the kick is on. I don’t know how feasible that is, but that is what I was once told.[/quote]
Interesting that but even the time it takes the brain to register sound and the eyes to react whilst a line of players cross still makes this impossible.
Having said all that from my seat in the west stand I’ve seen some feckin useless pillocks[/quote]
That’s the technique I try & use (whilst also trying to keep a trailing eye over in the direction of where the ball is).
It’s not always that easy though & I’d imagine it’s harder to hear the sound of a ball being kicked when there’s 60,000 shouting for a last minute winner than it is with the 50-500 people at the games I do.There are also times I’ve been on the line, fully focused on the back line, & a cross comes over, the attackers move one way, the defenders another like in that Arsenal game & I haven’t got a clue if anyone was offside.
Although that may be why I’m on the line tomorrow night in the Isthmian League rather than at the Emirates on Sunday!!!!Don’t often watch football ont box but brother in law was calling round this aft who is a single so thought I would give him a surprise and tuned in to the Dingles game at Arsenal for him ont Kodi.
Dingles deservedly pulled level with a late penalty in injury time but even later Arsenal had two players offside when they were awarded a penalty.
Memories flooded back of all those gutless refereeing decisions that went against us in those eight years and the two previous in The Championship.
The cameras didn’t even pan out to the Dingle fans who had sold their allocation weeks ago.
The whole league and coverage stinks.Interested in the big six only.
Dingles, Latics etc are just in the way of their bullshit.You see what you want to see as a supporter though.
For a start you neglect to mention the penalty that Arsenal should have had in the first half that wasn’t awarded.
Then for Arsenal’s penalty there weren’t 2 players offside. Nowhere near – 1 was marginally offside.
I also think that it’s clear what happened – the assistant has made a mistake. It looks like he’s taken his eye off the line or lost his concentration. At the moment the pass is made the Arsenal guy is fractionally offside but marginally after the ball has been played he appears onside as the whole line moved back towards the ball. If that’s when the assistant has looked back up then he appears onside & we’re only talking hundreths of a second difference.
Officials make mistakes – there isn’t a conspiracy against the smaller clubsOne thing I have noticed over the last few seasons as a Latics fan were complaints that ref’s weren’t giving us decisions in the prem & championship coz we were a small club. Last year in Lge 1 if a ref didn’t give us a decision it was coz we were one of the bigger clubs & they didn’t like us
More often than not the officials get it right & our blue tinted specs or the dislike of other teams clouds our judgement
The only consolation is the opposing team benefits for what ever the reason is for us normal fans having to suffer watching that shite year in year out, is it the same in Spain, does Barca get all the coverage, I doubt it.It’s far worse in Spain. Barca & Real have their own deals & they’re on every game. The other clubs get fook all bar what they negotiate themselves
Games involving United get the largest TV audiences – that’s why they keep getting picked for FA Cup games time after time.
The BBC still has a duty to its licence payers & governors to get the largest viewing figures for their programmes regardless of whether they can aell advertising during the game or not. The BBC’s deal with the FA doesn’t tie them to spreading the games around like Sky’s premier league deal & if sky could show United every week they would.
Whilst the “magic of the cup” may mean I’d love to watch Sutton v Leeds or Lincoln v Brighton the fact is that the viewing figures for United v Wigan will dwarf what they would get for the above 2 gamesIn the past the admission price used to be set by both clubs so I couldn’t understand why this was happening – then I read this:
http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/The-price-of-change-new-FA-Cup-rule-stings-home-and-away-fansThey should have never been let in it after they didnt go in that year to go to Brazil.Whether you agreed with it or not, it was the FA who put pressure on United to go to Brazil in order to boost the FA’s World Cup bid by not having the English European champions boycotting FIFA’s new flagship event.
United didn’t want to play in it but it was the FA who offered to let them skip the FA Cup if they went as United, quite rightly, said they couldn’t play in both.
Bearing in mind that it was the FA who made the offer, they could hardly have barred them from entering next years FA Cup as a result of taking them up on itHaving seen bournemouths stadium recently, i have always wondered if we (& the other lot) would have been better having a stadium with a 15000 capacity. Would have been jam packed during our premier days with perhaps a better atmosphere. &, when it came to the likes of playing utd, liverpool & everton, there fans wouldn’t have been able to have got into our end because we would have had enough supporters in the first place to fill our end.Even now with a fan base of 8 – 10000, the stadium wouldn’t look lifeless & soulless. & it would look full(ish).
I always thought that when the JJB/DW stadium was built initially, a 25000 capacity was perhaps being a tad too ambitious, given that pre whelan our fan base was only 1800 – 2000. Also, a smaller stadium (i would have thought) would be much more economical to run.
In short – yes we would have been.
The problem Latics had with a 25,000 seater stadium was that in our first top flight season all the glory seekers went out & bought season tickets so that they could be certain of seeing the “big games”.
These same people then realised in the summer of 2006 that they’d still be able to get tickets for the “big” games even without a season ticket because there were pretty much always seats still available on a match day.
The club then made the error of assuming that they had everyone’s loyalty & ramped the price up, but because there were spare seats for most games people then decided to pick & choose their games & the club never got them back.
Had there been 5k-10k less seats in the stadium then those people that the club lost at this point would in all likelihood have carried on getting season tickets for fear of missing those more glamourous games. With tickets harder to come by, people then become keener to get those remaining tickets coz they don’t want to miss out & the club could have looked at expanding the stadium at a later date to keep up with demand.
As it happens though , the club has always had more product (seats) than demand & that’s not a good situation for any business to be ini think Les Bagg made a similar point in the CL or Mudhutter fanzine years ago
The wider issue for me is using technology to help the officials. How exactly it would work God knows, but it’s wrong that everyone watching on TV can see a decision is wrong, but it cannot be corrected.
Game is too fast flowing. The goal technology works as its on a watch and is live but penalty decisions wouldn’t be. The ref would have to give it and then watch it back why everyone complains; but then how do you restart play if it wasnt a dive and was just a bad call?[/quote]
Very difficult how to use technology without unduly slowing the game. Need to find a way though sooner rather than later.
Whatever system eventually gets used, the principle should be that it is used to support the officials. A borderline decision shouldnt be changed, only one that is clearly wrong (that could be another worm can though :ohmy: )[/quote]
I’ve yet to see any convincing argument about how it could be used without either slowing the game or at worst ruining it.
Any system that allows a team X amount of appeals per game will just be exploited e.g. marginal offside decision in the last minute which the liner doesn’t give & an opponent is clean through on goal. Team X appeals to prevent the chance, play stopped, replay proves the player was onside – how is play re-started. Or if they allow the chance, at what point is play stopped? When they miss? when they score? if it goes out for a corner 3 minutes later?Any system that allows someone in the stand to review the game & pull the referee or assistants up if they make a mistake – all that does is completely undermine the refereeing team & when players realise they’re making mistakes or the ref is being told what to do by someone else, their match control disappears & dissent & stuff ruins the game
At the end of the day, referees make mistakes – the one on Saturday made a stinker in a) thinking it was a foul & b) thinking it was inside the area & an argument could be made that it cost Latics at least a point. However the ref made less mistakes than most, if not all, the players & missed chances, mis-placed passes, poor marking had more of an effect on the result than the ref did & it’s the same in every game.
Back to the original topic – yes the game on Boxing Day is a must win for Latics
Thought that Latics played well in patches last night without ever getting that final ball right very often.
Thought that defensively Latics played very well & kept their danger man very quiet indeed. Midfield did far better when Power was shifted out to the right & Jacobs brought into the middle.
Ultimately what cost Latics were 2 mistakes. The first from McDonald who a) gave possession away very sloppily in a dangerous position & then b) decided not to take one for the team & bring Diame down when it started to look dangerous
The second mistake being Kellett’s rush of blood in coming for an aerial challenge that he had no hope in the memory of man of getting & Newcastle took full advantage of Latics getting caught short at the back.The mistake from McDonald & subsequent goal knocked Latics who’d started well but never recovered for the rest of the 1st half.
In the 2nd they started well but the momentum had drifted & for me Joyce should have made a change at that point & not hung on hoping we’d get it back & by the time we’d conceded it was too late.So I wasn’t too despondent last night coz I didn’t expect a win & I feared a bit of a kicking so to play like we did in spells provided some encouragement
Shades of the 2014-15 season however this team is poorer than that in my opinion.
A total lack of ambition will send this club into oblivion if some serious team investment is not made in the new year.
The rot set in in 2009 when we went from an established premier league outfit in the top ten to a club fighting relegation each season.
Yes we won a major trophy in that time but the club has most certainly been in decline since then regardless of that
Last night was like watching schoolboys play their teachers and I realised then that regardless of manager ( ridiculous decision sacking caldwelll btw )we have had it unless changes in playing personnel are made in January and the war chest brought out !.i think there’s a bit of misty eyed recollection of facts there Vince
I would hardly have called Latics an “established premier league outfit” – we’d been in the top flight 3-4 years at that point, had a good first season, escaped relegation by the skin of our teeth in the 2nd, fought a relegation battle in the 3rd (though finished strongly) & were doing well up till Jan in the 4th. We hadn’t really been in the top 10 since our first season until late 2008Now at that point I agree the focus shifted to survival but the club could not continue to lose money at the rate that it was doing. I’d question why it had to happen so suddenly in the January of that season as opposed to at the end of the season but it had to happen at some point regardless or else pretty soon the club would have become unsustainable.
On to last night, Newcastle are a far richer club than Latics with far greater resources & fanbase. Player for player they are better than Latics in every single position on the pitch so I’m not quite sure what you were expecting & Latics can’t hope to compete for a sustained period of time against them unless you’re prepared to risk bankrupting the club. Thankfully the Whelan’s aren’t
