Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Depending on which steward you spoke to this morning Latics had sold between 13,800-15,000 tickets before the ticket office opened up this morning
Tyldsley, the new estimated figure of 20 million has only just been announced, in the last few months.I have studied the Holocaust for years now, yet I am still learning about new camps that existed that I have never heard of before. From France, right across to as far as Romania and the former Yugoslavia, there were camps of all different sizes and purposes. There were ‘Zwangarbeitlager’ camps that were principally forced labour camps, operating factories and industries that helped the German war effort. The biggest of these operations was at Auschwitz III, ‘Monowitz-Buna’, where German industrial companies such as I.G. Farben, Siemens, Bayer, Krupps, etc used forced labour. Several of these companies are still in existence today.
Then there were the ‘death centres’, such as Belzec, Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz-Birkenau. 80 percent of new arrivals at these camps went straight to ‘sonderbehandlung’, or rather ‘special treatment’, in the gas chambers.
But its the sub camps where the mystery lies, and a lot of the time, as brutal as these larger centres were, when you research the smaller camps, the crimes and details can be even more appalling.
And I was specifically talking about the jewish victims. There were plenty more non Jewish victims as well. Gypsies, Homosexuals, Religious figures, Political prisoners who were seen as a ‘threat to the Reich’, etc. Nobody will actually ever know the exact figure of Holocaust victims.
To anybody who doubts it happened, I definitely recommend a trip to Auschwitz Birkenau. The vastness of the place alone, is staggering.
I think we’ve seen the same things that has been announced recently (I saw it in early March) but it didn’t say that 20 million jews had been murdered or that 20 million people/total had been murdered/died in concentration camps – death camps or work camps.
The guy from the sudy I read about said “as many as 15-20 million people may have been sent to OR died in the network of concentration camps”The figures for Jews murdered & some of it is guesswork & comes from data with “gaps” is about 6million & that figure can be found in Jewish based holocaust literature or on jewish based websites. It wasn’t 20 million as official figures show there were around just under 9million jews in europe before the start of WWII with nearly 2.5million of those living in 2 areas (Russia & Ukraine) that the Nazi’s never occupied fully
My point about being careful about banding about figures (& I mean those recent researchers & not yourself) is that holocaust deniers pounce on anything with even an iota of iffyness about it – Not too long ago the generally agreed figure of deaths at the Auschwitz complex was about 4million (which was what it said on the plaques now located at the memorial in the main Birkenau camp) & then this figure was quietly dropped down to 1.5mill & the plaques changes. Like I say errors like that give ammo to idiots who pounce on errors like that as “proof” it didn’t happen whilst ignoring the mounds of evidence that it did. Even a former holocaust denier like Nick Griffin will now state that he agrees it did happen but (as he said on his question time appearance) his dispute is with the numbers.
Like you it’s somet I’ve studied & read about & visited (Auschwitz) – going up that main watchtower at Birkenau like you say & being able to view from above the sheer scale of the place is staggering.
I’m travelling to Italy later this year & am stopping in Turkheim (France) on the way. Discovered the other week that close by is the site of the only known concentration camp in France so I shall be giving that one a shufty – might keep it quiet from the wife & kids though as I think they’re expecting vineyards & the alps!!As far as I’m aware no-one thinks that 20 million Jews were murdered in the holocaust. The generally accepted figure is as you say 6 million
Some yet to be published research has recently been spoken about & was in the Independent the other week which is saying that the number of nazi camps (of all types) may have been greatly under-estimated & that as many as 15-20 million people may have been killed OR imprisoned in either Nazi occupied countries or their puppet govts.
That’s not saying that they were all Jews or that they were all killedThe problem when estimating holocaust or other non-Jewish mass murder is the lack of unchallengeable numbers/records which unfortunately gives holocaust deniers all the ammo they need to
I’ve decided to make a weekend of it and travelling down on the Friday and staying with a mate who lives in London. Not I know Millwall have a bit of a bad reputation. How much should I keep my head down on the way to the game? Is anybody else travelling in from London?If you don’t act like a complete t!t you’ll be fine. I’ve been down to Millwall a few times & a group of us have got the tube out to Surrey Quays & then walked down to their ground & walked back & not seen a sniff of trouble
Also back in 1999 after the Auto Windscreens final I was staying in Willesden Green with friends & had to get the same tube line back that most of them were taking, chatted to loads of em & again not a sniff of trouble. And the St George’s Flag with a very badly painted “Wigan Athletic” daubed through the middle I had draped round my shoulders kind of identified which team I’d been supporting.
As with most teams, if you go lookng for it then I’m sure you’ll find trouble – if you don’t you won’t
The only time I’ve ever seen Millwall kick off was when Latics beat em in the play off semi’s back in 2000 & even then they seemed more interested in taking it out on the police & the JJB interior design than they did on taking it out on Latcis fansBath
i think Latics have 9000ish season ticket holders. If everyone of them buys 3 tickets there will still be around 5k going on open sale so you’ll be able to pick some up on line later this week
On top of that I don’t think every season ticket holder will be buying 3 tickets each – in fact nothing like it
And on top of that, many of the Season Ticket holders who have bought or will be buying 3 tickets will be getting them for non-season ticket holding Latics fans as opposed to day trippers so the demand come whenever they go on open sale, will be much less than it was yesterdayDon’t panic
Giggs was born in Cardiff – that might have been why he played international football for Wales & not England
Just a thought like!!Collided? No, that needs two involved
There were 2 involved. The Newcastle player had forward momentum & so did McManaman (albeit the latter with much more speed & force) & they collided. Not saying it shouldn’t have been a foul or a red card but it was a collision of sorts
For me the problem is that McManaman, in his haste to get to the ball first, misjudged the speed & bounce of the ball so that his right foot only glanced the top of the ball & followed through in the way that it did.
Had he connected with the ball with the meat of his foot then his follow through would have been different & the incident would not have occurred
But a referee can take into account that the speed with which he ran in & kicked at the ball was both excessive & dangerous & worthy of a redThe vilification of McManaman & Latics in general since the game is gettin on my nerves & no doubt Whelan’s hence why he’s spoke out- albeit he probably could have chosen his words a bit better. And I’m sure I once read an interview where he was slating the player who broke his leg & the challenege
Oh and Robbie Savage was mouthing about ‘the tackle’ as well.Dunno what he has said on twitter but I read his column on the Beeb’s website this morning in a piece pretty much covering yesterday’s game.
In relation to the tackle, I actually thought he was talking a lot of sense (which is worrying) – basically he says that whilst it was a bad challenge & worthy of a sending off/retrospective ban that he would have expected him to challenge for the ball, that if he’d gone in half-hearted he would have ended up worse off & that it was just misjudged & not a malicious or nasty tackle
On Ryan Taylor I believe his nickname whilst at Latics was Trigger due to him being thicker than 2 short planks
There was nothing wrong in McManaman going for the original challenge as it was a 50/50 ball which was there to be won & in fact he was always favourite to get to it
There was also nothing in the actual original challenge coz he wins the ball & he knows that if he doesn’t get to & away from the ball quickly then the newcastle player is gonna clatter him. & he also knows that if he doesn’t go into it fully committed then he is the one who is likely to get hurt.
That said, how the challenge ends up is horrendous – studs up, just under his knee, both feet off the floor, trailing foot following through & could have really done some leg breaking, bone popping through the skin damage.
I think it’s pretty obvious that there’s no intent from McManaman but there doesn’t need to be.Whether the FA can take retrospective action against McManaman I don’t know. They can only do so if the referee says he didn’t see it – now he clearly didn’t see it properly or else he’d have sent him off but whether it has to be completely not seeing it i.e. somet off the ball behind his back, I don’t know. I suspect we’ll find out later this morning
PS – Griff. A reckless challenge is only a yellow card offence!! ;)
That’s what I’m saying though. If he said he didn’t see it ( and the tv angle seems to show he has every excuse to say he didn’t) then the fa can take action – especially if Halsey says that if he’d had an uninstructed view he’d have sent him off
can they ban him after the match hope notThat all depends on whether the ref says he saw the incident or not & Pardew seems to be indicating that he didn’t
If Halsey views it and says the Newcastle player who seems to be blocking his view meant he didn’t see it then yes they can
In all honesty it winds up looking horrendous but it started off as an honest & genuine challenge for a ball that was there to be won. He got to the ball first, won it & it was as much the momentum of the Newcastle player as it was McManaman that caused it to end up being what it was
It is also perfectly possible for a player to have his career ended by a legitimate challenge
Or maybe it’s the sherberts I’ve had after just watching a full recording of the game (missed if dud to baby sitting duties!!) that are clouding my judgement !’
Even my double vision didn’t miss that handball though“Disappointed for Wigan” – what a fuckin gobshite. Have never liked him since he was in charge of that dirty, snidey, try every trick in the book Reading team that scavved it against us in the play offs.
As someone else has said, what goes around comes around!!Nice one Graham still got it !!Before my time as a player but they were my thoughts exactly!!!! Goooo on Rambarrow!!!
Confirmation at 2pm today:
Sat 13th KO 17:15 – Wigan (east) v Millwall (west)
Sun 14th KO 16:00 – Chelsea or Scum (east) v Man City (west)That has come from Brent police to the Landlord of the Green Man, who rang me straight away.
(from bluemoon, not me)
Looking at the plan of the stadium & directions to the pubs I would guess that Latics allocated boozer woudl be The Torch.
Its alreet & there’s plenty of room out the front if the weather is decent to take your own ale rather than pay through the nose for theirs!!
I always thought it’d be the saturday but not that KO time
On the plus side it means I don’t have to get up at 4am to get to Piccadilly for around 6am & it allows some decent suppin time
On the downside I wanted to go on the train & a 5.15-5.30 kick off means that if it went to pens I’d have about 30-45 minutes to get out of the ground, down wembley way & on to the tube to euston which aint gonna happen
