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I’m pretty certain of which factors were to blame for the incident that led to the loss of life at Heysel & as with Hillsborough it was a combination with some bigger contributors than others
but
At the end of the day, a big chunk of the Juventus support blame the Liverpool fans. With Del Piero being worshipped as a God by them it’s hardly surprising that he turned Liverpool down. If there were rumours of the approach amongst Juventus supporters & then talk that he turned it down coz they didn’t offer him enough money then that may have been the reason he went public with itI still think it has the potential to grow but having two sets of different rules for the same sport will always cause problems in terms of growing it. RL was doing fine until 2 major factors started the decline. 1 is everybody’s favourite person ‘Owd Maurice’ and the salary cap is far too low.I agree that it has the potential to grow but the RFL authorities went about it in completely the wrong way.
It completely baffles me that they thought it was a goer that they could just create clubs out of absolutely nothing, stick them in an area with no tradition of playing or watching rugby league & expect enough locals to turn up to support a full time professional club. It was absolute madness & doomed to failure – the only reason why Catalan are surviving is because that area has a tradition of playing the game.
What they should have done was strengthen the game from the bottom up, get more people watching & playing it in its heartlands thereby improving the product on offer on the telly & slowly reach out into other areas through schools etc.. then start up small clubs & so on. It’d take a while but if you build a house on sand it will fall down & so its proved
If Latics struggle to fill the DW has shown anything it’s that you can’t expect a club with no real tradition of big support to go from small time to big time very quickly & pull in the same sort of crowds as club’s who’ve been around that level for donkeysRugby League for far to long has been trying to compete with `National sports` like football and rugby union,it cannot and its time they realised it.Couldn’t agree more. i don’t mean that in a disparaging “stick to your village green sport” kind of way but more that in it’s 100 & odd years of existence it has always been a regional sport. & a good one at that with a loyal band of followers
It didn’t spread not because people hadn’t heard of it but because, in the main,they either didn’t like it or they didn’t mind it but preferred to spend their money on other sports. That’s life – you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink
In their drive to “spread the gospel” the RFL has ignored some of its heartlands to pursue pipedreams of clubs in London, Gateshead, South Wales, North Wales & Paris. The naivety of thinking that “if we put a club in south wales people will come coz they like rugby down there” whilst leaving historical clubs like Leigh & Swinton to rot is shocking.
If you cut off a trees roots it will die & people in “rugby league” towns such as have lost interest in droves coz all they see is a sport with no hope of progression
I often think that football’s governing bodies haven’t got a clue what they’re doing but in comparison to those in charge of rugby league they’re like the professors of Oxford UniversityI have to say, his technique is rubbish – the amount of times he turns side on to the pitch as play moves up the pitch is shocking. :ohmy:
Needs to work on his crabbing – the blokes behind him seem to have more idea than himWhilst we’re on about irrelevant red Dwarf related trivia, a mate of mine from schools dad worked on props for the company who made the original series & he built Red Dwarf itself
Have you been spying on me?
Of course I have. A stalkers paradise on here don’t you know! :lol:
Oh, and while I have your attention can you tell me why that red card for Gomez was rescinded, seeing as he clearly went into the challenge with his studs showing, plus the fact that it also involved golden boy Webb who has now been shown to be less competent that we have been led to believe.[/quote]
I thought so!!! :ohmy:
I didn’t get to see any of last Saturday’s game so I haven’t seen the challenge & I couldn’t find a clip of it on youtube or anywhere so I don’t know
By itself though, going into a challenge with your studs showing isn’t in itself a sending off offence & isn’t an offence at all – it all depends on the angle your boot comes in at, whether the player is completely off the ground or not.
In all likelihood it will have been Webb himself who viewd the footage again & said he got it wrong. Some ref’s won’t do thatOh, and he’s a referee don’t you know, which explains a lot….! ;)And when the hell have I ever mentioned that??
Have you been spying on me?b. In football the play-offs decide 3rd place (a bonus promotion place -if you like).3rd (or 4th place if your in the 4th division) is not & never has been a “bonus” promotion place. They were an automatic promotion place & designed to reward the 3rd/4th most successful team in the division, just like 2nd place
then it was changed & those teams had to take their chance in a 2 leg or 1 off game against teams who’d finished below them
It’s good to see though that you acknowledge my point that both systems are unfair, so basically I am right!! ;)what’s that faint singing noise i can hear in the background??
In Rugby League, more often than not, they aren’t – and that is my point.Actually in the “super” league, since it was introduced, more often than not the team who finished 1st has gone on to win the grand final – I think I did the stats the other day during a “quiet moment” at work & put it on this thread ;)
And I see your point & agree with it. I don’t think that play offs are a fair way to decide who is champions of a league but a play off in the way they are used in football & rugby league is unfair purely & simply because you are allowing teams who have proved themselves as inferior to others a chance of getting promoted/being crowned champions.
If it’s unfair then it’s unfair no matter what the sport & no matter what the prize is on offer – my argument has nowt to do with money & nowt to do with prestige
The only argument i seem to be getting back is “Yeah it (football’s version) is unfair, but its not as unfair as their’s (rugby league’s)” which proves my initial point that football fans aren’t on the most solid ground to criticise RL’s play off systemLike f@ck I’m splitting hairs!Yes you are ;) or completely missing my point :P
Believe it or not I actually agree with you (in part). I don’t think that it’s a fair way to crown the champions. I also believe that it cheapens the whole league process by allowing the teams who finish as low as 8th in a 14 team league to get into them
However its just as unfair (in my opinion) that a team who finishes 3rd in the championship, & who over the course of a season have proven themselves to be as much as 12-15 points better than the team who finished 6th, can miss out on promotion
So it doesn’t decide who are the champions. Big deal – the principle is the same &, particularly in the jump from championship to premier league, the financial rewards for going up are enormous.
If it’s unfair to decide who are champions then it’s unfair to decide who goes up too – BUT I sill think that it was the best thing the football league has introducedOf course it’s totally different. In football if you win the league or come second, you don’t go into a play-off system – simple as that.In Rugby League it doesn’t matter how well you do during the season, you still have to play a knock-out game. You could go a full season without even conceding a point, and yet have an off day and end up potless.
Football’s play-offs are an incentive for the teams who did not win the league or finish runners up; Rugby League’s play-offs decide the whole outcome of a season for an entire league.
You’re splitting hairs Standish.
My own personal opinion is that the team who finishes top should be crowned champions end of story, so in that way I do think the RL play offs are wrong/stupid
However I do feel it’s hypocritical of football supporters to completely slate the system they have when we have something pretty similar ourselves & most people I know think that they’re a great idea.
As I’ve said to SDW – a league ranks teams in order of merit & a fair league will reward the good sides accordingly. As stats show more often than not in football the team who finished 3rd (or 4th) in the football league’s divisions misses out on promotion to teams who over the course of a season proved themselves to be inferior – it’s not a fair system whether it’s done for 3rd or 1st place
I know why they were introduced in football – it was to keep the season alive for most of the teams & to keep their attendances from tailing off. Sorry but they were introduced in rugby league for exactly the same reason & to try & prevent a monopolising of the top honour by one club for long stretches of time.
How many people moan in football that you can pick the league champions from 2 clubs before the season starts? Or how many latics fans used to slag rugby league off when Wigan dominated by asking “what’s the point in a sport where 1 team is so dominant?”
The RL authorities tried to address is with the play offs & they tried to address the issue of 1 club being so dominant by using it’s wealth to hoover up all the best talent by introducing the salary cap. Sometimes i wish the football authorities would try to be bold to solve similar issues in our game
Don’t get me wrong they make horrendous mistakes – the doing a way of relegation is a massive mistake as it’s killing the game at a lower level by removing the incentive to reach the top but I do understand the reasoning behind it coz the club’s were struggling to set up to the pro game & then stay up & some club’s were biting off more than they could chew money wise. I think they chose the wrong way of addressing it though
Just like they made mistakes allowing the clubs to go straight into the top flight to try & spread the game beyond the M62 corridor. New clubs built on sand will always crumble & they just don’t learn their lesson as they keep doing it Gateshead, Paris, Crusaders whilst club’s in towns that have been playing the sport for over 100 years like Leigh, Featherstone & co can just go swing.I try not to let my intense dislike for Wigan RL cloud all my views of the sport
comparing souper league to any football league is akin to comparing a bugatti to a horse and trap…………finish top your champions, finish bottom your down……….end of debate..no extra lives, no picking a team who you want to play, no finish 8th out of just 14 teams FFS and still get in with a chance of winning THE WHOLE FRIGGIN THING…….it’s a joke egg mon, no disrespect to yourself. But trying to justify rugger leagues horrendous play off system is quite embarrassing.Just out of curiosity, what happens to the team in the league below souper league that won their grand final??????
In our championship, they would have cracked the champers open and got a £90m windfall in the prem……what happens in rugger league?????????
Sir Dave, you have a massive chip on your shoulders about rugby league & you really should see someone about it. Why on earth are you getting so wound up by a sport you claim to care so little about?? That is what is embarassing about this thread
For what it’s worth it, I feel it does de-value the league by having so many teams out of a small league who are able to qualify for the play offs but as I’ve said the whole point of a league is to rank sides in order of merit. A truly fair system would reward the best teams & punish the weaker ones in the 3 divisions of the football league that happens by & large but you still have virtually the same scenario from 3rd to 6th meaning a team can finish way clear of the 19 teams below them but lose out on promotion to a team who came 6th. teh only rewards they get for coming 3rd are playign teh 2nd leg at home & playing the lowest placed side
It isn’t a fair system – but that doesn’t mean I can’t see & agree with the benefits it brings
Rugby league is a sport I can take or leave – some times I enjoy it & sometimes I don’t. I don’t like Wigan RL for historical reasons but i don’t feel the need to spout venom at them every 5 minutes nor do I let it blind me so much that i start spouting hypocritical nonsenseNot worried yet no coz it is far too early but I do have some concerns:
1) That the midfield is weaker (in depth) that it was last season. Diame wouldn’t be missed from a fully fit starting XI point of view but he is being missed when we have an injury to either McCarthy or McArthur or when the midfield needs freshening up a bit mid match. Having Watson & Jones as back up doesn’t offer anything when changing things other than making teh XI out on the pitch weaker
2) Losing Moses. As well as his plus point he had many, many faults but he was vital to Bobby’s system in terms of being able to stretch the opposition & get in behind them. Having Franco/Kone there puts people out of position & putting Gomez there just slows everything down by about 3 paces. I’d like to see the Japanese lad whose name I still can’t remember how to spell or McManaman given a go sooner rather than later but I’ll bow to Bobby’s judgement on that coz if he doesn;t fell they’re ready then they mustn’t be ready
3) The defence looks a lot shakier than it did from feb onwards & have slipped back to allowing the opposition to score without them really having to work hard to do soThat said, I’m still of the belief that the team is capable of surviving relatively comfortably
as for the play offs – at the end of the day are they really that different from the system in football where the team finishing 3rd in the championship who are often streets ahead of the others (points wise) can get pipped to promotion by the team who finish 6th?
It’s totally different. The champions are crowned champions and will always be remembered as such – likewise the second place. The play-offs merely decide who else goes up from the also-rans.[/quote]
It’s not totally different at all.
having a league table is that that the teams who do best are the teams who get rewarded. If you have a rule that allows 3 teams up & 3 teams down from teh division above it should therefore be the 3 worst teams goign down & the 3 best teams from the division below going up. The divisional play offs means that more often than not this does not happen.
Yes it’s not the champions but you’re still allowing teams to get promoted who did not prove over the course of a season that they were one of the 3 best teams.
Don;t get me wrong, there’s plenty that I think the RL powers get completely wrong (from what little I know of the sport) but I just think football fans are on shaky ground criticising the play off when we have virtually the same set up in our own sport
For what it’s worth I think that the (football) play offs are the best thing that they’ve ever introduced to the game over hereIt might be heresy to some but I watched that game last neet & really enjoyed it – the result was a bonus too!!!
as for the play offs – at the end of the day are they really that different from the system in football where the team finishing 3rd in the championship who are often streets ahead of the others (points wise) can get pipped to promotion by the team who finish 6th?are you for real?????
if you finish 1st in any football league, you win the league!!!!!!!!!!!
if you finish bottom (3-4) then your down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how is that in any way similar to the pointless, cringeworthy set up in souper douper league. top 8 out of 14 for god sake, can they make it easier to get in the play offs.
no comparison, anyone who tries to make comparisons with souper league format is not on this galaxy.
and please, spare me all the chit chat about champs league places etc zzzzzzzz[/quote]
I think you need to calm down sir dave & deal with the issues which obviously make you froth at the mouth when rugby league is mentioned.
At the end of the day if you’re gonan use the “what’s the point of a league table?” argument then it can be applied to football where 3 teams get promoted from the championship to the prem but the team who finished 3rd after 46 games can lose out on promotion to a team who finishes 6th & who ofetn finished many points behind them. In fact the team who are the 3rd best team in the division have only got promoted on 37% of the time the play offs have been going (& since the stopped it involving 1 team from the division above).
For comparison since it was introduced in rugby league, the team finishing 1st has won the grand final 60% of the time
They were introduced in football to keep the season alive for far more teams right up until the end of the season & so help prevent attendances tailing off. They were introduced for exactly the same reason in rugby league
