No I aspire to see us winning the Premier League title, or failing that a nice run in the top half but the difference between me and you is that I understand that it is very unlikely to happen and anything finishing above the bottom three must be considered a success

We have the lowest crowds, one of the lowest wage bills, £60m in debt, and running up massive losses year on year, which can only be prevented by selling players. We have no comparative history at this level – people comparing us to the likes of Blackburn and Bolton is even laughable they were a top flight club 120 years ago, they are bigger towns who have won major honours and have no rugby team competing for their money!

When we first came up to the Premier League we expected to get tonked every week, the only thing that has changed in the above is that we are even more in debt and many of our fans have turned into the same Bertie Big times who exist at every other Premier League club. As I said at the beginning Roberto Martinez has achieved exactly what Jewell & Bruce did, to answer my own question when I started this thread – the difference is that the expectations of fans like you have changed and what was good enough under Jewell is apparently not good enough under Martinez

I’ll be supporting us whatever division we are in pal, just like I always have. As the very sage Old Git put it, every year Little Wigan exist in this division they thumb their noses at the big boys. Long may it continue!

Bruce managed a whopping 17 points in the 2nd half of last season, relegation form by all accounts and subsequently left for a bigger club rather than continue working under the financial restrictions Latics have to operate

We then sold two of the remaining best players in Cattermole & Valencia in the summer for £20m of which I doubt even half was made re-available to Roberto Martinez, who has continued to manage under the financial restrictions which Bruce didn’t want to.

The target for the club is to avoid relegation each year, sorry if you don’t like that but it’s what Whelan said and he’s the chairman. Jewell achieved it, Bruce achieved it and Martinez achieved it.

If you seriously believe that you have a right to demand that WAFC should be in mid table, then you’d probably be better off supporting another mid table club

We can’t win in this league because as soon as we start to over-achieve and reach mid-table or get in the top half, our players get picked off by bigger clubs offering bigger wages. It’s nothing to do with who the manager is. It’s happened to Jewell (Bullard, Roberts), happened to Bruce (Palacios, Heskey, Valencia??) and will probably happen to Roberto (N’Zogbia, Rodallega)

Staying up is our target and it is an achievement, what a shame some of you can’t acknowledge it.

I suggest you read what I initially posted again then. The three statements are exactly identical, the only difference is the name of the manager.

All three managers kept us in the Premier League in very similar circumstances. They managed the same club did they not? They played mostly the same opposition did they not? They all worked with a tight budget and either had to sell their best players or had them sold before the arrived did they not?You couldn’t get three more similar circumstances and three more similar outcomes.

So why the difference? Why do two of them get thanked for keeping us in the Premier League and the other gets abuse and criticism and told by the great minds on here (sic) that he is not up to the job?

Thanks for the above however most of it is irrelevant. I just asked for the difference between the above three identical scenarios, no need for analysis of any other un-related events

It’s good that you have admitted that Bobby inherited a dismantled team though ;)