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If you can understand why the offside wasn’t given coz the ref couldn’t determine whether he was interfering with play from his position then I fail to understand why you can’t see that the ref didn’t order the corner to be retaken from his position as he quite clearly had his back to the corner when Pedersen started his run & so hadn’t seen what had gone on.
Just as he may not have been able to tell Sammon was interfering with play he had no idea what happened in relation to the corner & so had no option but to allow play to continue. It was really bad refereeing but he didn’t see what went on so he couldn’t give anything but the goal.
Same with Gomez’s goal particularly if his liner didn’t help him out by indicating he was in an offside position in the first place
If a ref sees a moving ball at a free kick they always pull it up. They, in my experience of working with them, only don’t pull a team up for it if they don’t see it & hence we’re back to the same scenario as for the corner. In this instance the ref had his back to play when the kick was takenI didn’t agree with him but I’m pretty sure that the co-commentator on Sky thought Dunn got the ball in the challenge that he received his second caution for & that the ref got the decision wrong coz he was in the wrong position & couldn’t see it
Bobby has every right to complain about the second goal but he seems to have pinned the blame for the draw solely at the officials feet & that isn’t the case – as other’s have pointed out there was poor decision making both in defence & attack that cost Latics just as much & that’s why Bobby’s comments come over as “skriking”, “desperate” & attempting to shift the blame.
The lad really can’t win can he? If he had done his usual trick of picking out the positives (of which there were many amongst the usual mistakes) he’d have been roundly criticised for burying his head in the sand. However, he tries to blame it on the ref like many other more qualified and experienced managers would, yet he ia immediately accused of skriking.
Oh, and that 1st goal? Yes, technically speaking he was offside but 100 times out of 100 that would not be given as offside. Just as the rolling ball one wouldn’t have been pulled back – well maybe 99 out of a 100 on that one.
As for the dodgy corner. Just typical that it happens to us but if we had been switched on and taking notice maybe it wouldn’t have turned out to be so critical.[/quote]
He did pick out the positives. He described it as a magnificent performance especially in light of the pressure the players were under. Or words to that effect.
To be honest I’ve no problem with him coming out with some of the stuff he comes out with after defeats since I accepted that he will never slate his team in public & I understand the reasons for that even if he winds up making himself look & sound stupid at times
Nor do I have a problem with a manager who criticises a ref if a mistake or missing somet has cost them but when the same officials mistakes have benefitted their side its best to keep schtum.I have also seen plenty of goals disallowed in similar circumstances to Latics first on Saturday just as I have seen plenty of refs at all levels pull back play when a free kick is taken from a moving ball & they are always accompanied by cries of “let the game flow” – regardless of whether sometimes the officials don’t always pick it up doesn’t mean that in this instance they shouldn’t have applied the laws of the game.
The referee didn’t see the corner incident and, therefore, should have consulted his linesman and fourth official. He didn’t. If he had any doubt he should have disallowed the goal and ordered the corner to be taken again.the referee did see Victor being tripped in the area, but gave nothing.
In my opinion the referee is incompetent and cost us three points.
Frankly I am amazed to see Wigan Athletic fans attempting to defend the referee or refer to other incidents and suggest it’s “swings and roundabouts”. Do you actually call yourselves Wigan Athletic supporters?
On the same subject – any idiots who booed the team off after Saturday’s performance would be better off staying at home.
In 40 years of watching Latics I have never come across so many fans who know so little about the game and supporting your team. I have been involved in major rows when opposition supporters have slagged off my team, but now I am hearing racist, obnoxious comments from a silly minority of fans. The decisions going against us should provide us with a siege mentality, but too many of you have slumped off into a corner and given up. Put up a bit of a fight for God’s sake.
Once again you will tell me it is simply your opinion. Well we have heard it now. The manager is totally committed to Wigan Athletic, the players all gave 110% on Saturday, maybe it is time we were united and gave them our support.
Perhaps it would help.
Booing them certainly doesn’t.
The officials are all mic’d up so I’d imagine that the question was asked. Expecting the fourth official & linesman who would have been stood near the dug outs to have seen it is probably a bit much though. In that area of the pitch it was the ref’s responsibility & he’s turned his back to the ball & so couldn’t tell. It was very poor refereeing but you cannot expect ref’s to start pulling play up coz they suspect something may have happened. If you see it you can give it, if you don’t see it (which he didn’t) you can’t give it. Simple as
From the ref’s position it was a very poor decision not to give the penalty – no arguments there
The referee had a shocker on Saturday IMO but you can’t escape the fact that some of his errors benefitted Latics just as much as they went against em. If you look at the 2nd goal incident, yes it cost us 3 points but if you look at the match as a whole including all his decisions as well as glaring misses from Latics players then no it didn’t cost us 3 points.
I’ve been a Latics fan for nigh on 25 years but being a supporter doesn’t mean only castigating the ref if decisions go against us & ignoring the ones in our favour. There’s being a supporter & then there’s being blind to the factsFor what its worth i thought the majority of the players were superb on Saturday & I don’t think the commitment could be questioned even for those who weren’t.
It was also a very entertaining game & how I like to see my football. For 2 of the goals it was good to see Latics players getting on to the 2nd ball & knock downs & seeing the midfield up in support of the strikerOh & I might be wrong but I think the vast majority of booing at the final whistle was towards the referee as the majority sat down round me (far end of the east stand from where the penalty was given) had no idea what he’d given the penalty for which coupled with their 2nd goal & our non-penalty left alot feeling aggrieved
Dermot Gallagher has just been on SSN saying that the Gomez goal was a correct decision by the refereeRemember the 07/08 season when Latics played United in the last game with United needing to win to secure the league?
Remember that in that game Paul Scholes was cautioned & then several minutes later committed another foul worthy of a caution yet wasn’t sent off by the referee?
Well the day after that, Dermot Gallagher was on talksport being asked about the decisions given & not given by the ref (Latics were also denied a penalty with the score at 0-0 when Ferdinand blocked a shot with his arm). He said that whilst it was a foul & worthy of a yellow card, sometimes a referee doesn’t just referee the game they referee the occasion and as such the ref was right not to issue a 2nd yellow.My points being that a) he is just as capable of talking absolute rubbish as the rest of us & b) as a former ref & someone the media turn to on occasions like this he is very reluctant to say anything critical of decisions made by match officials.
Alot of football decisions are about interpretation & my veiw of our first goal having seen it at the time & from 3 different angles is that Sammon interfered with play both in terms of his starting position & the run he makes as he tries to get back onside
Some other ref’s would disagree but I know many more that wouldn’t.Just because Robinson has a go at his defence as opposed to appealing for offside doesn’t mean anything when things happen in a split second
Yes i understand why you come to that conclusion, but if you look from behind the goals or indeed from robinsons own position, sammon is to robinsons right and gomez and the balls path to his left and i would say he is more unsighted from his own players than being impeded in any way from sammon.
In defence of the referee his view of it, from where i assume he was positioned, would be the mirror image and he would only see sammon out to robinsons left and not interfering – although I doubt it never came into question because the linesman never lifted a flag, and from his point of view at the side, he would only see sammon moving away from the goal.This is another decision that probably can only be confirmed by TV replay and keane would have no grounds at the time, other than it going against, him to legitimately claim it was offside.
The website I looked at it on showed the side on view where it looks nailed on that Sammon is blocking both the view of the ball & of Gomez. It also shows the view from behind the goal which is less conclusive but does still look like Sammon runs across Robinson’s line of vision. Robinson’s reactions appear to suggest he only saw the ball late leading me to think his view was blocked & if you look at the 3 blackburn defenders they are all to Robinson’s right & not impeding his view of the shot or the ball. Sammon is more to the left.
The liner should definitely have flagged but whether Marriner would have been in the position to say whether Sammon was interfering with play is another matter.
Kean wouldn’t have been able to see owt at the time & its only the replays that have made him suggest it shouldn’t have been allowed but if I’d been reffing & seen what I’ve seen since then I’d have disallowed it so i think he’s got legitimate grounds to complain – my reaction at the time was that Sammon was offside & interfering with play & was expecting to see the flag raised.
Being a nerdy ref these days I made a point of watching the liner nearest the east stand for tips but I stopped not long after the goal coz I thought he was poorNot spotting the rolling ball for Caldwell’s free kick that led to Crusat’s goal was nearly as bad as not realising the corner hadn’t already been taken by the time Pedersen touched it
The law on offside is that a player in an offside position is only penalised if at the moment the ball touches or is played by a team mate he is,in the opinion of the referee, in active play by:
– interfering with play
– interfering with an opponent
– gaining an advantage by being in that positionI’ve got the shot from Gomez on freeze frame on my PC at the moment & when Gomez shoots, Stam & Sammon are in offside positions.
Stam isn’t any of the above 3 example coz he’s stood right in front of the liner
Sammon is on the edge of the 6 yard box directly in Robinson’s line of vision & in the line of the flight of the ball so to me all 3 of the examples above apply to him & he should have been penalised.
I’m glad he wasn’t but I’m just using it to show that whereas Latics were skanked for Blackburn’s second the officials made mistakes that benefitted Latics tooBut in the very same game Latics 1st goal should have been disallowed for offside as Sammon was directly in Robinson’s view of the flight of the ball
Goals get given for that all the time. Unless you make an attempt for the ball you don’t get flagged. (which imo is wrong)
I also didn’t think it was a penalty at the time, but the ref was stood a matter of yards away with a perfect view. Terrible call.[/quote]
I’m not saying that don’t get given for that all the time but I’m saying that in that situation (as was explained to me in a pre-season meeting held by the FA) is that as an assistant referee if you see an attacking player in an offside position & (coz you only have a 2D view looking at it from the side) but its clear that they are in the mix so to speak (as opposed to being out on one of the flanks & in an offside position) then you need to flag, call the referee over &, in this situation, explain that Sammon was in an offside position but you can’t tell if he was obstructing the keepers view & the ref (who should have had the face on view) can make that decision.
The player in the offside position doesn’t have to be making any attempt to play the ball but just be seeking to or actually gaining an advantage by being in an offside position. I recently flagged for offside in the last minute of an FA Vase game for a virtually identical situation, the ref disallowed it & the assessor said we got it spot on. The away team’s supporters who were stood right behind me didn’t quite think the same (it would have been a winning goal)!!!I agree with you about the penalty – I was in the east stand dead in line with the challenge & thought Moses dived & whilst i still think he made a meal of it (which may have influenced the ref) Marriner was in a perfect position & made a terrible call
Martinez is not one for using referring errors as an excuse for bad results. But, we’re not talking about your usual refereeing error here are we? It is clear from the Sky coverage that Marriner was facing Yakubu as he placed the ball for the corner and presumably, like everyone else, saw that no contact was made. If he had than he would have considered the ball to be in play and wouldn’t have turned his back on proceedings. So when he eventually turned to see Pedersen charging into the box after playing the corner to himself what the hell did he think had happened? The answer is he had no idea because he screwed up big time and wasn’t watching play. Rank bad referring worthy of a suspension and/or demotion so, leaving aside whether the team is good enough or not, I fail to see how Martinez “skriking” about that can be considered as some kind of desperation on his part.
Goals change games and had that been disallowed we would be here debating the merits of the team in a well fought win.Its skriking & desperation because, as bad an error as it was, Bobby neglected to mention that poor officiating was also responsible for 2 of Latics goals (the 1st & the last)
As Kean correctly pointed out after the game, its swings & roundabouts – Latics got some decisions their way & they got some the other wayThe corner was rank bad refereeing, but having turned his back to the ball Marriner couldn’t pull play back for something he didn’t see (when I’ve reff’d I’ve had games where I’ve known someone has smacked another player – heard it & one bloke is on the floor clutching his face, but if I haven’t seen it I can’t give it) & from that point on Latics should have played to the whistle & they didn’t & it cost them a goal.
Marriner also wasn’t looking when Caldwell took the free kick that led to Crusat’s goal coz if he had he’d have pulled play back & the liner should have flagged after Gomez’s goal to inform Marriner that Sammon was offside & left it to the ref to judge whether he was interfering with play coz the liner can’t tell.
Both those officials will get some form of demotion (however temporary) coz they were poor throughoutBobby has every right to complain about the second goal but he seems to have pinned the blame for the draw solely at the officials feet & that isn’t the case – as other’s have pointed out there was poor decision making both in defence & attack that cost Latics just as much & that’s why Bobby’s comments come over as “skriking”, “desperate” & attempting to shift the blame.
This is the first time I have watched match of the day in donkeys…It wasn’t just our toothless inept Officials that got big decisions wrong today, it was across the board. Barton got away with two stone wallers against him, Henry for Wolves got away with it. There were a lot more.
Do we need fresh referees in the Prem? A bit of competition for games, because these obvious mistakes are costing teams points, money and managers.
You forgot to mention Latics having 2 goals allowed that shouldn’t have stood as well
Kean is absolutely spot on. Bobby can talk all he wants about Latics not getting decisions & the likes of jayt can claim “we keep getting robbed” all they like
Blackburn’s second goal shouldn’t have stood, there’s no doubt about it. But the ref had his back to the corner (& his positioning is exactly where ref’s are told to stand for corners) & if he doesn’t see it then he can’t give it. And yes, Latics should have had a penalty although to be fair I didn’t think it was one at the time
But in the very same game Latics 1st goal should have been disallowed for offside as Sammon was directly in Robinson’s view of the flight of the ball & the ball was still moving when Caldwell took the free kick that led to Crusat’s goal.
Blaming the ref is just shifting the blame coz yet again the team wasn’t good enough to beat a fellow relegation rival & this time one who played for 40 minutes with 10 men. If Bobby genuinely believes it was the ref’s fault we lost then it just prevents him addressing the real problems at LaticsWarrington, I’d love to know what footage you’ve seen if you think that Jones made contact with the ball.
I’ve just watched footage of the offence on my sky plus several time & he does not touch the ball – either before Robinson heads it or after.
Top marks must also go to Victor Moses for his excfellent marking of Robinson too. Just about topped off a shocking performance from him yesterday. Lots of nice twists & turns but no end product whatsoever. Then gives away an idiotic free kick which led to the corner that led to the penalty award they scored from & then just leaves the bloke he’s supposed to be marking
If I was him I’d be taking that Nigeria call up coz he’s as much chance of playing for the england senior set up as I haveI know the dark side won’t agree with this so don’t read on and dont reply if you are in that camp, i cannot be arsed with you…The last 4 games has seen us be the much better team without getting the results we deserve.
Hugo scores a pefectly good goal at Wolves, Pederson scores a perfectly illeagl goal, when are we going to get the rub of the green. No preferential treatment, just correct decisions.
Match of the day showed the referee say oh shit to himself today when he realised he screwed up with the corner incident, but he still didn’t do anything.
Don’t get me on to the stone wall penalty that he didn’t give when Victor was hacked down……
Rodallega was offside against Wolves. I thought it at the time & I still think it having seen it again on sky iplayer
There’s no doubt that Pedersen’s goal shouldn’t have stood yesterday but you don’t mention the fact that our opening goal should have been ruled out for offside as Sammon was clearly obstructing the keepers view & he wasn’t marginally offside he was yards offside.
Or the fact that the free kick that Caldwell took was from a “moving ball” & therefore shouldn’t have stood.I’ve said elsewhere, but skriking about the ref smacks of both desparation & not being prepared to admit that the side just isn’t good enough. Football is about scoring goals & not conceding them & Latics aren’t very good at either of them. The defending for all 3 of Latics goals was shocking yesterday. To be caught out again (as they were at Wolves) from a goal kick shows that they are incapable of learning from their mistakes. The second goal (poor refereeing decision aside) broke the golden rule of playign to the whistle coz they just all stopped & the defending for the 2 free kicks (& Moses idiotic challenge that led to one of em) & the corner were poor in the extreme.
As whoever the co-commentator on Sky’s coverage has just said after the award of the penalty “Wigan have only themselves to blame for that”Or are the referees for our countless defensive mistakes & the inability of our players to put away the chances that are created.
Latics have lost all 4 of those games because they haven’t been good enough purely & simplyThought Stam was superb yesterday & I’d agree that I’d like to see that formation tried out for future games with one or 2 tweeks depending on who is fit.
Pbviously Boyce in place of Gohouri & Alcaraz in placed of Figueroa. With Figueroa or Van Aanholt replacing Jones
I’d disagree about McCarthy coz I thought he was anonymous yesterday again. Diame was really good in the first half but disappeared in the second half (I have to question his fitness again) & the same applies to Gomez to be honest (not started for a while though so maybe its only to be expected that he faded). So I’d drop McCarthy & put Jones in his role.
I think Sammon deserves to keep his starting place too
I expect however to see Boyce at wing back & Rodallega up front if he plays with the same formationMy comments clearly aren’t about Pedersen, they were about the ref.
Its the ref that Martinez was blaming yesterday not Pedersen and to be honest all Pedersen needs to say is that he thought Yakubu had taken it & then he played to the whistle.
I just think that Martinez blaming the referee yesterday & coming out with all this “Wigan Athletic don’t get decisions from ref’s” crap in a game where the referee sent off an opposition player (and having just watched the highlights shortly after Dunn’s initial caution he is hacked down from behind in a virtually identical manner to the foul he committed, and the ref doesn’t give a caution) smacks of desperation coz the fact of the matter is that his team weren’t good enough to be beat a very poor Blackburn side who played for about 40 minutes with 1 less man than Latics.
I also note that whilst blaming the ref, Bobby keeps quiet about the fact that our 1st goal should have been disallowed
IMO his post match comments just make him look pathetic & bitter. Also IMO the performance from his team when blackburn went a man down was poor & that’s where the game was lost
